Req'g Data 4 Usa Child Protection Services

[lostforgottensoul]

Oops, cross posted with @FridayJones , me sorries.

 

[Recovery4Me]

One thing to consider, is that there may be no abuse whatsoever happening.

There is that possibility ... and I think it is best determined by an professional.

 

[Weemie]

'K. I had a point with that but I cannot remember it. (Sigh.) If the kids are American citizens and are learning English that's a good step in the right direction? Yeah, I can't remember. Sorry. I'm all discombobulated.

Nevertheless my advice will remain the same: your best bet is to get in touch with a legal adviser, tbh. Notifying CPS of an undocumented immigrant could cause the father to be deported and the kids thrown into foster care. That may well be traumatizing to them in and of itself if there really isn't any foul play going on. I would be very careful. If there is foul play, you got no idea where this guy comes from, if he is dangerous, if he could retaliate, etc. Find a legal professional and figure out the best way to access resources for undocumented individuals.

Reach out to the kids, too. Try to talk to them, build a rapport. Let them know you're there. Maybe their lives suck and they're poor and they live in a garage, but as an adult, you really don't remember if you slept on a cot or in your own bed. You remember if people were kind to you. Having that experience of someone to talk to and trust is beneficial regardless of what's going on. And this will help you get a better handle on the situation as well.

?? It almost came back. The fact that they are in school is very good, it will help them develop some semblance of normalcy.

 

[Suzetig]

thats why i thought of talking to them yourself like any adult would talk to any child of that age to see if anything has happened.

With respect, that's the very last thing I would do. the OP doesn't know if anything is happening - the poor boundaries etc may be purely due to very cramped living circumstances and lack of parenting, or the situation may have started out that way and now a line may have been crossed somewhere. Or the whole family may be completely traumatised and be coping just about as best they can. The "finding out what happened" conversation is something that needs to happen at the child's pace, in their own way, with their choice of person. Because nothing at all might be happening and the family may just need someone to help them understand that boundaries change as kids get older.

Yes, be there for the family, offer care and support - because you want to be caring and supportive, not because you want to know what's happening. Build a relationship with the kids so that they do have someone to turn to if they need it, because you care about them - not because you want to know what's going on.

OP, there are some pretty personal details in your post, how do you know for example that the kids are showering together, she sleeps in the same bed as her dad etc? Are these thing common knowledge and if so who in the family said it? There might be a way to talk to dad (who is the person responsible for setting and keeping appropriate boundaries for all the family) and help him think through how he manages that in what sounds like impossible conditions. If there are community resources for undocumented migrants, it would be worth talking to them, either for support yourself or to refer the family. There might also be faith organisations who offer support to undocumented residents and it may be worth pointing the family in that direction.

Depending on the attitude of children's services/social work services to undocumented people it could be worth talking to them. Just be aware that some government agencies may need to report on people's immigration status where relevant which could have implications for them if they aren't registered/are in the U.S. Illegally. If they have a health care provider (yes, I know unlikely) it would be worth encouraging dad to talk to them to get health advice on parenting - it's something health visitors do in the UK, there might be a similar scheme where you are?

Also remember that for every person who was abused because no one spoke out, there's a person who actively didn't want to speak out because the consequences of doing so we're going to be worse. There may or may not be something untoward happening, the kids may be safe but unboundaried, or not. And they may or may not want support. Being in school at any level is a good thing because it provides a structure for their day/week and means they have access to support outside the home. In other words, their safety and wellbeing isn't all on you - there are other people who know about the family and have sight of the kids.

In your shoes I would decide the level of involvement you are comfortable with and set your own boundary being aware of your own triggers. In short, it's ok to care for others but look after yourself first.

 

[Recovery4Me]

Firstly, thank you, each and everyone that has thus far responded. Every thought is an enhancement or additional treasure which I do not treat lightly. :hug: I want to offer, I admire the effort and careful wording given with so much compassion and forethought for these folks.

Secondly, when I respond back it is in a think tank sort of frame work. I am not challenging but trying to carefully clarify. So with that statement- here goes :)

OP, there are some pretty personal details in your post, how do you know for example that the kids are showering together, she sleeps in the same bed as her dad etc

...because I live here. The bathroom is by my bedroom and the laundry portion of the house sits directly in front of the opened space of their quarters ie: garage. As well my other roommates (some documented and from that country) have expressed their concern. Therefore, it is not within that foreign cities' natural social structure.

r the whole family may be completely traumatised and be coping just about as best they can.

Agreed. However, naked repetitive exposure between siblings of two differing genders (with one in puberty) in the shower together (today was twice)... is often considered a red flag by some mental health professionals. I personally do not see an upside to using trauma as an basis for red flag allowance. Compassion, yes. Again, I will run it by my T to clarify my triggers versus boundaries. I do not feel righteous...I feel saddened.

other words, their safety and wellbeing isn't all on you - there are other people who know about the family and have sight of the kids.

I appreciate that offer. One of my concerns is that school is finished here for the year, her period just started with all the hormonal blooming and the showers are now increasing. The only others that might know are in the household. We are collectively working on how best to resolve this. As this board is a wonderful resource of compassionate and educated members...I put out the thread request as I have great trust within the majority of offers on various threads. Thank you Suzetig for your effort and response. I will consider all that you have offered with due diligence.

Find a legal professional and figure out the best way to access resources for undocumented individuals.

Will do !

Thank you again to @lightraze :hug:, @lostforgottensoul @FridayJones @joeylittle @Suzetig... I appreciate each post immensely and will not act in haste but with great care for all concerned.

 

[Suzetig]

However, naked repetitive exposure between siblings of two differing genders (with one in puberty) in the shower together (today was twice)... is often considered a red flag by some mental health professionals.

It is a concern, yes, for lots of reasons not least the need for privacy for a girl going through puberty and starting menstruation. I didn't mean to suggest there was nothing to worry about, more that the root cause could be very complex and not necessarily be about one person purposely acting to harm another, and that it's probably not something the household/community can deal with without external support.

I can see it's a very challenging situation and one that you're trying to find the best way through. I hope you find the help you need.

 

[Recovery4Me]

@Suzetig I relate to your offers very much and hope you feel appreciated as well as respected. (((hugs))) *Because I do appreciate you for all that you give and represent as an individual. Thank you for being here and assisting.:)

 

[Changing4Best]

Working with Child Protective Services can be very risky. They will do what they think is the best option for the children, but often isn't. I have seen far too many instances of them not only ripping children from parents, but also from one another, so that they are not with anyone from their original family! Be careful. I agree with the above advice of trying to find an agency or a lawyer in the area that does Immigration work. Thanks for caring. I pray for the best for this family!

 

[digger]

Not saying that you shouldn't be concerned, I would have concerns too, but that this is happening so openly - they are aware that you and the rest of your housemates are aware of these arrangements - leads me more towards feeling that it *may* be more about a need for more age appropriate boundaries than abuse, although of course, as many of us know too well, issues around boundaries and abuse can get blurred and intertwined.

Have any of you spoken to the dad about the kids showering together?

 

[Justmehere]

However, if I do this incorrectly, it may just end up that the children (whom barely speak English) are torn from him, possibly deportation (?) and let's not forget to add that my Land Lords are his friend.

I'm glad you are taking as much care as you can with this. I want to caution you to not take on too much responsibility for the possible outcomes of taking action. There are various people, systems, and factors that you have little to no control over. There are many complex issues involved here. Landlord tenant issues, immigration issues, etc, etc.

I agree with others about speaking to a family law/immigration attorney. If there are any low cost or free legal clinics in your area, you could consult with them about how to best proceed to avoid possible deportation issues.

Another idea: look for any non-profits that focus on helping immigrant families and see if they would be willing to reach out to the father and give him some help and support navigating all he is dealing with in raising those two kids. You can tell them what you are seeing happen and they might be able to help figure out what to do.

 

[Recovery4Me]

@Justmehere Very wise words, and affirmation to prior postings. I thank you for your input and effort. I intend to gleam as much as possible from the posts and talk to my T prior. It is one of those times, I wish I was fluent in the needed language for communication for such a delicate situation for all. (((hugs)))

 

[Recovery4Me]

@digger :):tup:

I have tried to converse with him concerning the bathroom and the need for proper disposal of her used supplies. I offered it must be difficult for him as a single parent to raise a girl without a Mom. My Spanish is poor at best and that was ridiculously hard.

I have been giving them a share of my take from the food pantry to bridge an relationship of sorts. Food is a bond for hunger at times. However, he views women in an old school manner, so it is hard to communicate with parity concerning his family. A few have tried to get him to sign up for the pantry and some services. His pride is a tricky thing concerning his efforts and we are moving too slow to guarantee preventive measures if they were needed for age appropriate decisions.


What I am hearing is reattempts in communicating with the Dad. I will move with caution for further action (if needed) and will attempt to talk to Ms. LL for intervention. She is also a tricky one to communicate with as well. I am listening to all of you and appreciate your gifts of ideas and expertise.

Thank you @digger ... you have contributed to my plan greatly by echoing and expanding action consideration. I will relay all to the others.