Rule Of Thumb

[Em C.]

It really bothers me when people use the term "rule of thumb." One of my friends looked it up and was like well it didn't always mean spousal abuse...

And I was so upset because WHY DOES IT MATTER IF IT DIDNT ALWAYS MEAN THAT?!

I responded (rashly I admit) said that well look at the Swastika.

Just because it meant peace pre-Holocaust doesn't mean we should just all wear it. History effects language and we have to respect that.

I think people just bother less about it because it is about female abuse. Ditto with the term 'wife beater.' I get that people don't know about rule of thumb but the term wife beater is pretty obvious. It's just so horrible.

And then my ex (also an abuser but not relevant atm) said that "people will always be sexually harassed lol. No reason to let that mess up your day"

I just sometimes get hit with how cruel people are. Usually I can brush it off but today I guess isn't one of those days.

Sorry for the rant guys I just was already triggered and this upset me.

Do any of you have that issue with people using assault language around you and sometimes you just freak out?

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

I responded (rashly I admit) said that well look at the Swastika.

Just because it meant peace pre-Holocaust doesn't mean we should just all wear it.

They look a bit different BUT...

The swastika was and is a Hindu religious symbol called svastika and is considered to be a very sacred and auspicious symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism. It's been around for thousands of years and is still used today.

 

[Em C.]

Ayesha I definitely agree that it is a very sacred symbol. But it isn't just that anymore. And how most of people see it is not as a sacred symbol. It really upsets me that people think that just because something once was acceptable it means it still is. I made that sound a lot more insensitive than I meant. I just mean that we can't wear them and have everyone assume we mean peace because there are dual meanings. Rule of thumb involves beating women and I just don't understand how people can learn that and still think it is acceptable to say. And there are no excuses for saying wife beater. It's classist and sexist

 

[anthony]

Since when does "rule of thumb" have anything to do with abuse? This is new to me.

Rule of thumb has always meant, by my understanding, something that is about right, not precisely accurate or measured.

Rule of thumb is used a lot in cooking, as an example, instead of precisely measuring every ingredient the chef will say, rule of thumb when pouring oil, adding ingredients, so forth.

Its used a lot in industry, building and trades.

 

[Seagreen]

I have heard something along the lines of "rule of thumb" referring to an old law that a husband could beat his wife with a piece of wood provided it was no thicker than the width of his thumb. Not sure how much truth there is to it. I've mainly heard Anthony's definition. Next time I'm in the hardware section looking at pieces of wooden dowel I'll think twice before using rule of thumb.

 

[joeylittle]

Apparently, it was not derived from any such law. From wikipedia (well-cited):

The exact origin of the phrase is uncertain. The earliest citation comes from J. Durham’s Heaven upon Earth, 1685, ii. 217: "Many profest Christians are like to foolish builders, who build by guess, and by rule of thumb." The phrase also exists in other languages, for example Swedish tumregel, Norwegian and Danish tommelfingerregel, sometimes in the variant "rule of fist", for example Finnish nyrkkisääntö, Estonian rusikareegel, German Faustregel and Pi mal Daumen, Hungarian ökölszabály or Dutch vuistregel, as well as in Turkish parmak hesabı, and in Hebrew "כלל אצבע" (rule of finger) and in Persian "قاعده سرانگشتی," which is translated as finger tip's rule.

And, there never was such a rule in England (at least); actually, not at all:

It is often claimed that the term's etymological origin lies in a law that limited the maximum thickness of a stick with which it was permissible for a man to beat his wife. English common law before the reign of Charles II permitted a man to give his wife "moderate correction"...Such "moderate correction" specifically excluded beatings, allowing the husband only to confine a wife to the household.

The idea that the phrase comes from spousal abuse probably arose from a political cartoon written in 1782:

Nonetheless, belief in the existence of a "rule of thumb" law to excuse spousal abuse can be traced as far back as 1782, the year that James Gilray published his satirical cartoon Judge Thumb. The cartoon lambastes Sir Francis Bueller, an English judge, for allegedly ruling that a man may legally beat his wife, provided that he used a stick no thicker than his thumb, although it is questionable whether Buller ever made such a pronouncement. The Massachusetts Body of Liberties, adopted in 1641 by the Massachusetts Bay colonists states, “Every married woman shall be free from bodily correction or stripes by her husband, unless it be in his own defense from her assault.”

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I agree with what has been posted...."Rule of thumb" doesn't have anything to do with abuse according to a number of online sources. However, I have seen on myth sites that this is a rumor that is spread by feminist culture, without much merit.

"Wife Beater"....that one's pretty horrible. I always cringe when someone uses that term, and I refuse to wear the darn things. (It was a popular thing for females to do at one point as I remember my sister wearing them.)

 

[digger]

I've never heard the term 'rule of thumb' used in any connection with any kind of abuse.

As others have said it means, to me, doing something by approximations or guesswork. I thought it came from the time when measurements (for building etc) were not yet standardised and so would be particular to each individual building site because they would be based around one particular persons measurements. Interestingly, the French word for inch is the same as the one for thumb because of this as, before measures were standardised, the width of a particular persons thumb on site would provide the measurement for one inch.

I understand how you feel about it if you personally have come to associate the term with something more sinister, but hopefully the replies you can see here, and googling the term, might help you see that that is not an association made by most people and that most people will not be using it that way or even be aware of the association for you.

I don't think it would be deliberate cruelty or use of assault language for most people.

 

[Friday]

I'm another who has never heard it linked to spousal abuse.

I have heard it linked to Ancient Rome (thumb level = neutral or waiting, thumb up = agreement or life, thumb down = disagreement or death,)... But I know a helluva lot of classicists, anthropologists, & archeologists. Who were all over the moon when it was used in the movie Gladiator (never watch that movie with a classicist, every piddling little thing wrong, but the rule of thumb was one thing that got cheers).

I have heard it linked to builders, either English (inches, feet, hands, OE used all kinds of body parts as standard measurement), or slapdash (winging it instead of using standard measurement).

But how I've always heard it used / how I use it myself... Is to refer to a flexible guideline. Which would fit whether it's the 2500 year old Roman rule or builders.

 

[illusionist]

My partner works in the building trade and has a love of the history of the old trades. He told me about the thumb being used to measure. I have never heard of it in reference to abuse..only as others have said, as a rough estimate.
I had a conversation with my son not that long ago about the Swastika. Seemingly some tattoo artist in Scotland was selling Swastika tattoos to be done reasonably cheaply to promote the original meaning of peace. I was shocked that anyone could come up with that idea. Luckily my son agreed that it can cause offence to a lot of people. Some folks just don't stop to think...but me being me, could see their view once I thought about it.

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

Swastika tattoos to be done reasonably cheaply to promote the original meaning of peace.I was shocked that anyone could come up with that idea. Luckily my son agreed that it can cause offence to a lot of people. Some folks just don't stop to think

I'm still really confused becasue the original meaning was the religious meaning which is still being used today (as I said in my above post). So I'm confused why that would be upsetting if that is why it's being done. Yes, the two tattoo look a bit different (one is 'backwards')

But it being used as a tattoo: I imagine wouldn't that be like trying to desensitize people? Otherwise you are just causing fear of the thing itself. To make people aware that it's not always been a symbol of fear, hate and racism? For thousands of years it hasn't been.

I do get it your thought but not your whole idea and being German-American the Swastika can make me cringe to see it but I'm still aware of it's meaning and it's use today as something that has nothing to do with Nazism.

 

[Em C.]

Thanks guys. Nice to know my mom made my ptsd worse based on something with disputed claims...

I guess the idea is just uncomfortable because of all the familial abuse :/