Seems A Lot Like Catatonia

[Friday]

@shimmerz...

Medical definition of lethargy is rag doll limp. A person literally cannot move. They're almost like a corpse (lighter though, usually)... Completely floppy. Oftentimes cannot even blink. That's the medical definition. Lol. Well, the medical definition in English.

Common use definition of lethargy is moving slowly, or feeling a bit run down, or even flat out.

When you're dealing with medical professionals? They've heard a 1,000 (10,000) people tell them they're lethargic. Nope. Not possible. If you're picking up the phone and dialing and talking? You're not lethargic. So they learn to ignore it.

Same thing with catatonia. There's a medical definition, and then there's the common usage of the word. True catatonia is exceptionally rare, and it debilitates most sufferers for life, and usually accompanies certain types of cognitive impairment & brain damage... Which would render most catatonics incapable of learning, much less use of a complicated thing like the Internet. (Or door knobs.).

Could it happen in theory? Yes. It sounds like you may be one of the exceptions. What's far more likely for the vast majority of people who experience catatonic-like symptoms, however, are options A-Z. (There are dozens of types of minimal to unresponsive conditions). And most of those have clear causes & treatment (which is good news). From partial seizures, to super gnarly flashbacks, to TBI, to certain syndromes... There are literally dozens of causes for dazed & unresponsive to XYZ stimuli.

It's medically negligent to assume an incurable untreatable diagnosis of exclusion before excluding every other possibility, first.

Just to explain where the initial disbelief, and then insistence on 9,000 kinds of testing comes from.

 

[amelia_i]

*nods* Almost as negligent as my psychiatrist hearing me describe the symptoms, hear me use the word "catatonic", in the common usage sense, and then say IMPOSSIBLE and change the subject, never to address it again.

 

[shimmerz]

Just to explain where the initial disbelief, and then insistence on 9,000 kinds of testing comes from.

Yes, and if the 9,000 kinds of testing had happened, I would have been okay with that. Straight up denial when I lived it, day in and day out when a simple Ativan Challenge would have confirmed or denied? The serious hospital abuse that took place because workers didn't believe I couldn't move?

Abusive, negligent, disgusting.

It's medically negligent to assume an incurable untreatable diagnosis of exclusion before excluding every other possibility, first.

I am going to say, go for the Ativan challenge first, but if I had been tested for ANYTHING that would have been more professional than shoving a catheter up me, whilst hissing at me that she was going to 'make it hurt' because I was being so defiant. And that was just the start of my day. I ended up suicidal and in lockdown at the end of the day. Oh, and I had prescribed (with me) Ativan that my POA kept asking them to give me. They refused.

Negligent? No. Systemic abuse.

 

[amelia_i]

^ :(

I read your post describing your symptoms. I haven't been out for anything longer than a few hours, but some days it's on and off all day. Some days it never happens at all. I do sweat profusely, and is often, but not always, accompanied by time lapse. Although that's probably not saying much, that happens when I dissociate too.

 

[shimmerz]

Walking away, kicking a few walls, smoking and will be back. Man, this gets me going.

This is an important link as well. Friday, I don't think catatonia is what you are describing (major brain damage etc). What are your sources?

Anyways, I really do think this is important, so I will come back to this post and specifically some issues in this link in case it helps someone not go through what I did.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2833127/

Smoking. And stewing.

 

[shimmerz]

"Yet, catatonia is present in about 10% of acutely ill psychiatry patients, only a minority of whom have schizophrenia."

Affective disorders are quite common in sufferers of PTSD.
"Among those with comorbid affective disorders, who comprise the largest subgroup of catatonic patients, the catatonic signs typically resolve dramatically and completely with benzodiazepine therapy.

And this is why it is so important not to pass it off:
"Failure to treat the catatonia before institution of antipsychotic medication may increase the risk of inducing neuroleptic malignant syndrome. "

"the major reason for considering catatonia as a separate diagnostic entity would be to increase recognition of this eminently treatable neuropsychiatric syndrome."

Amelia, I think it is really important to realize that there are different causes of catatonia, so getting a doctor who will take your concerns seriously is important.

 

[amelia_i]

*nods* Certainly. I will work on that asap.

 

[shimmerz]

I haven't been out for anything longer than a few hours, but some days it's on and off all day.

I found that once I dropped 'in' Amelia, that I would be more prone for days afterwards. I had to keep myself pretty segregated once I realized I was 'in the zone'. This is why I had the sublingual Ativan. It would hit me within a minute, whereas the regular Ativan would take 10 or so minutes and by then I would be completely gone.

Does the Ativan help you at all? That is an important thing. Does your partner give you Ativan when you go into such a state?

ETA: Oh, and ice to get your body temperature down. It may help pull you out as well if it is close to what my issues were. I had a friend who would 'ice me' anytime I went out. And it would literally melt the minute he put it on me.

 

[amelia_i]

No, he doesn't. My Ativan is in regular old tablet form. Psychiatrist prescribed it for anxiety.

Through a little thinking, I think that it probably does help. I have been taking less, and it seems like I am stepping out more often, but still not as much as pre-Ativan.

Sometimes I get that feeling like my flashbacks are going to head into that "zone", and once it has happened, even if I emerge quickly, more often than not it hits harder, and longer. It seems like it comes in geometrically-intensifying waves.
When it comes without warning, I get no sort 'ohshit' feeling. It just hits hard, I go rigid doing whatever I was doing, and. Yeah. All of the other symptoms I mentioned.

 

[shimmerz]

I did notice with me, with time, that I would drop things before something came on, or I would walk with less, idk, muscle tone. My friend said my 'face would drop' (meaning affect, there was no life in it). Although it seemed like it came on immediately, I did learn to look for these warning signs in me and it helped a ton in the management of it.

Any chance your doctor will prescribe sublingual? There is less time for it to set and you can tell better if it truly is helping.

 

[Chava]

I can't seem to find much information about such things on this thread, or anywhere. Does anyone have any thoughts? Do you experience this? Should I be more alarmed?

It doesn't sound much unlike some of what I experience with certain triggers, but I can't say whether you should be alarmed or not...depends on how much it affects your life. It sounds like you are pretty safe when this happens. Someone here referred to some of my similar stuff as "flaccid immobility", which is a deep freeze response. It's especially common with really early trauma when freeze is really the only option.

Therapists and doctors can be rubbed the wrong way by our own use of terms or diagnosis. You could look into it some, read about your kind of trauma or the relationship between trauma and freeze or immobility states. The name is less important than finding a therapist who understands it if you want to get beyond it...I've found the body approach helpful but also a therapist who seems to understand these frozen and trapped states and doesn't make me feel like a freak (not sure what your story is, but for example, looking for someone who specializes in complex trauma if that fits). The person you saw sounds sort of wretched and arrogant.

 

[amelia_i]

I'll talk to her about it, although I don't know how that will go.

@shimmerz , When it does approach gradually, I'm usually having flashbacks before it happens, so that is the most obvious warning sign for me. A few days ago, I was really upset about him going to work for a long shift. He watched me peek at him with one frowny eye around a corner, bid one another adieu, then I turned to go to my computer desk. I put my hand on the back of my chair to turn it around, and bam, in I went.

@Chava, yeah my interest in the name of whatever this is extends only as far as wanting to know what it is so that I can get some help.