Selfish

[Queen Boudica]

All my life, my family seemed to have accused me of being selfish if I was not doing what they wanted, behaving how they wanted me to behave. All through my childhood. And when, as an adult, I had to get away from them to protect myself, so many times I was told that I was selfish.

So now to me selfish is the worst thing I could ever be. Put myself first, that is just not a possibility. If I am accused of being selfish that is terrifying. I cannot ever be selfish, I have to think of others first.

It is just so programmed into me, that I end up getting hurt because of it.

How many others feel this way - that they have no option but to put others first rather than risk being selfish?

 

[intothelight]

Hi Lizio,

I have always looked outside of myself to see what others expected, as it was more of a survival mechanism. If I didn't do what they wanted or I perceived they wanted, I was punished. This started as a child and then continued through an abusive marriage. Now I know that thinking is screwed up, but it is hard to change.

There is this huge feeling of worthlessness and a lot of guilt for even existing. But I know the thinking is wrong, and to do things for myself is "normal". I haven't gotten it all down yet, but I do know the more "healthy" I am, the better I will be for the others in my life that matter. That is the point I am at right now, I may not be doing it all for myself and I am still doing it for others, but at least I hope I am on the right track.

Just my .02.
Debbie

 

[Dee Morris]

I feel the same way. I feel ashamed of myself if I do anything for myself. Or if I DON'T do something for someone just because they think I should. I'm kind of jealous of people who pamper themselves with mani/pedi's, massages or even something as simple as a hair cut. I wear my hair in a ponytail because I feel guilty for spending the money on myself if I get a haircut.

 

[IvyMillie]

That really shows the power of words. How that label has really affected you so deeply. I'm sorry.

As a woman, I think that we are sort of pre-programmed to be givers (well many of us). We are usually the caregivers. This was especially true for women raised in the 50's.

I think many things in life are about being balanced, and that is the hardest thing. I think for me it is important to give to others. I hate to think I'm selfish, but I really am in certain ways and areas. It is a natural human bent to be selfish. However, you've probably gone way the other direction by not being selfish.

I suppose too, that what may be considered selfish could also just be considered rejuvenating yourself. Like replenishing your batteries in order to give to others. We have to have some love for ourselves. Like the saying "love your neighbor as yourself." Well, you have to love yourself first.

I guess for me I do try to put others first, but what contains me is that if I don't take care of me a little I tend to get kind of cukooo. I need some "my time", if only to do something creative, or just be alone. I get kind of mean if I don't have some space to myself.

I hope in time that you will be able to see--that being selfish, or just doing something for yourself is not bad. We need to have some love for ourselves to nurture our own self It's like if you had a plant that you liked, you would water it and make sure it had some sunshine. Well you are worth more than a plant and you need some care too. When you care for the plant and it blooms then you reap the reward. You may blossom even more if you give yourself some care.

However, I realize that those early labels are hard to undo in our head. As one friend used to tell me when people would say mean things "consider the source and ignore it." If the person telling you that, wasn't superbly wise and offering you something valuable, remember they weren't right in what they said and therefore, carries no weight.

 

[Tosh]

((intothelight)) I struggle with those feelings as well. My story is similar. I found it so hard to get myself into therapy because I didn't want to do it for myself. I did start attended alanon meetings and that little saying at the end of the meetings (your worth it) started to sink in after about three months and I was able to get myself into therapy. I still felt guilty just for getting myself help. It is automatic for me to put others first and me last, if at all. I'm learning how to put myself first. My T gave me a list of self nuturing things to do for myself and keeps up on asking me if I'm doing them. So I try and pick at least one thing each day to do for myself. I just think it is a long process to fix. I feel like I got wired wrong.

 

[IvyMillie]

Can you help me understand this better--I'm curious? So does this stem from feeling worthless, like you were never good enough? Did this occur because of a particular trauma? Was it like something so bad happened to you that you must not have any worth, if this thing happened to you? Or was it just continually being told you are selfish, which really meant you were a bad person?

This is very interesting, my mom was so abusive to me. It's so strange that even when I was about 10 years old I knew I was a good person, and I couldn't understand why I got treated so badly. However, I knew I had goodness in me. Not from anything external though. I didn't have anyone positive in my life till I was around 12 years old.

So this must have affected your internal dialogue to such an extent that you believed the abuser.

I hate to ask this, but how does this manifest itself? It seems like you are being unselfish to everyone, but really not liking yourself at all. Is it out of guilt and rote? Does this lead to any self destructive behavior? Do you struggle internally because you feel compelled to be unselfish, but you really aren't happy in being so? I don't mean that you aren't an unselfish person, but does it almost feel like you are trapped?

Finally, if you had children how did you treat them?

I'm sorry to ask so many questions. I really want to know, because I have a friend who may fit this profile. She is the most loving, and giving person in the world--even towards underserving people. However, she has such an extremely low self image. It's almost like a dichotomy (I don't know how to spell that.)

 

[mamachick]

Lizio-I am sorry and I understand and relate completely to being manipulated through the word selfish. (and others).
I use to take it to heart and put others first. I tried to accomodate others and and make them feel comfortable. Within the past year, this changed in me. As a matter of fact, the sisters did not even have to say the word selfish anymore before the hair on my neck stood up. I got to where I have an attitude of d "doing nothing" for those who even insinuate that.

 

[Queen Boudica]

I'm kind of jealous of people who pamper themselves with mani/pedi's, massages or even something as simple as a hair cut. I wear my hair in a ponytail because I feel guilty for spending the money on myself if I get a haircut.

Yep, even when I was earning a lot of money I could never justify spending the time and money on manicures, pedicures, even waxes (and I need them!)

I would get my hair cut though, as my hair is so important for me. My mum when I was a kid cut my hair and made me look like a boy deliberatly. I have always had body image problems, thought I was repusively ugly as a teenager. Still have problems with that and hair is there to cover up face, horrible eyebrows, hideous nose, etc, so I do get my hair done as I just could not do that myself and tying it up in a pony tail would reveal my face.

And now I colour my hair. I was just letting it get dagggy and gray and I hate my natural hair colour anyway, but now I I colour my hair myself, I would never spend money at the hair dresser for that. And eye makeup, just crucial, but I do it all myself, never would go to a beautician. So I guess my phobia about my looks overcomes my phobia about being selfish :(

I have to say, getting my hair cut now I have found a hair dresser I am reasonably happy with, is a good experience, I do feel good for a while after that, but I will leave large gaps between getting it cut so I could go more often.

I also recently started getting a few nice clothes to wear. All my stuff was falling apart. My shoes had a huge crack in them across the sole. So I had to buy some more and ended up getting these wonderful tall boots (which I had not had since I was a teenager) and that triggered something in me to get some nice clothes to match the boots. But then my husband has been monitoring how much I have been spending on clothes. There is a chart on Microsoft Money that he has created monitoring how much I am spending! So there you go the selfish is coming to haunt me.

Go get your hair cut at a nice salon Dee. Every woman should at least pamper themselves in that way. I think hair cuts are an essential not a luxury.

 

[Sethe]

All my life, my family seemed to have accused me of being selfish if I was not doing what they wanted, behaving how they wanted me to behave. All through my childhood. And when, as an adult, I had to get away from them to protect myself, so many times I was told that I was selfish.

So now to me selfish is the worst thing I could ever be. Put myself first, that is just not a possibility. If I am accused of being selfish that is terrifying. I cannot ever be selfish, I have to think of others first.

It is just so programmed into me, that I end up getting hurt because of it.

How many others feel this way - that they have no option but to put others first rather than risk being selfish?

Lizio:

I can relate. I was taught that when I protested or expressed my opinion/wants- I was being selfish. Even worse, I was being 'like my father' who my mother claimed was crazy, but for some reason she stayed with him.

It's hard for me to justify taking care of myself. It's so easy to help others. I've learned that I come second.

Right now, I'm working on putting myself first and learning how to disrupt those feelings of shame/guilt.

 

[Queen Boudica]

Can you help me understand this better--I'm curious? So does this stem from feeling worthless, like you were never good enough? Did this occur because of a particular trauma? Was it like something so bad happened to you that you must not have any worth, if this thing happened to you? Or was it just continually being told you are selfish, which really meant you were a bad person?

I've had to think about this a lot since reading your post. It is very complex (Ha! that's why I have complex trauma!)

It is a combination of a whole lot of things.

Yes as a child I was pushed aside, not loved, my sister was the favourite. I was the eldest by 11 months but I had to look after my sister as I was supposed to be more responsible, she was the baby. I was blamed for causing trouble when she cried etc (even though she was the one pinching me or doing things to me to provoke me)

We would walk to and from school on or own when I was 6 and she was 5. I was responsible for looking after my sister on the walk there and back. And that would be to and from lunch at home as well. My sister had been away from school so one day I walked back for lunch and my mum was home, but no sister. My mum questioning me where my sister was. I had forgotten she was back at school. I had forgotten her. My mum of course shouting at me and telling me off. I had to walk all the way back to school without lunch to go and get my sister who was in the canteen there crying. I felt guilty because she was so upset. I WAS 6!!!! (Why didn't my mum just phone the school, why was I made to walk all the way back to school with no lunch!) One memory out of so many others. I was the eldest I was responsible, if I did not look after my sister even though she was mean as hell to me then I was selfish.

If I did not do what my controlling mother wanted then I was selfish. One time she was fighting with the neighbour, hosing her down because there was some dispute about the trees that my mum had planted against the fence and the neighbour was trying to cut the tips off (they were always fighting about something). I stood there watching and my mum was calling me to join in. I refused (I was about 14) I got a barage of insults then. How selfish I was.

I always had to be on her side, against my dad, grandparents, other family. If my sister went against her, I had to be on my mum's side, otherwise I was selfish.

When my sister was hospitalised and came out of hospital I was selfish because I came back on holiday from Uni but one night I decided to go out with friends.

I was selfish one time when me and my boyfriend took my sister out to the fun fair and we went on the ferris wheel and, me, being terrified of heights sat next to my boyfriend huddling onto him. Apparantly I should have sat next to my sister.

I was selfish for finding a boyfriend and getting married. I was selfish for eventually deciding that my family was going to seriously damage me, so I needed to not come home anymore because everytime I did I was seriously abused.

I was selfish for marrying a black man, because my mother told me that my children would be black and so would be scratching their skin off because they would want to be white

I was selfish for not answering the phone when I just could not stand the screaming down the phone from my sister and the horrible poison that my mother was spouting so that I got to the point of having panic attacks every time the phone rang, or after I had spoken on the phone to them.

I was selfish for not giving them my phone number after I moved and cutting off my mother after she left the message on my phone that I was "an evil bitch"

I was selfish when I wrote to my sister advising her to get herself help after she was breaking down after her married boyfriend dumped her. I received a wonderful letter from her about just how selfish, monstrous and sub human I was.

I was selfish for not writing to her after that.

I was selfish for not going to my dad's funeral because I was too afraid that my mother would be there and I wanted him to have a dignified funeral. I visited him in hospital but in secret so I could not see my mother and there would be a scene in the hospital.

And I was selfish, because I did not realise my sister was so sick. I just had to escape and go to Uni and leave her with my mother so that my mother ended up putting her in a mental hospital.

And I was selfish, because, even though I did get back in contact with my sister, I never went to see her. She wrote me letters asking me to come and I did not. And I was selfish when I read those letters and did not pick up on the fact that she was on her way down again, that my mother had her evil teeth into her again, putting her down and demoralising her. And I was selfish when I was told that my sister was dead of an overdose and my first feeling was one of relief, it was over. And I was selfish for screaming after that screaming that she was dead when my husband was on the phone to my mother and she was questioning "Why was I upset, that she was the mother, I was supposed to be comforting her"

And I was selfish that even then I could not go to her funeral because I was still terrified of my mother.

And I won't even begin to tell the story of how my husband has been making me feel like I am selfish.

Or my dad, who I was supposed to be his favourite, but he would write to me and tell me to come see my sister and mother (even on his death bed) but never ask me how I was doing

So there you go. A life time of selfish and guilt embedded into me. Not so easy to get that out of your head.

What it means is that I think I am worthless, useless. I try not to but it still happens, because every person close to me reinforces that. They tell me that. All of my life.

And I try to be so nice to people to make up for the fact that I am so guilty. I try so hard because I don't want anyone feeling like I do. I know how it feels to feel like shit and I don't want anyone feeling that way. I always have to make excuses for them, so they don't feel guilty, that would be so wrong. I feel like shit so I may as well continue that way as long as I don't let anyone else feel that way too. I am happy if I can make others feel special but not me. Too late for me it is just there in me.

 

[Queen Boudica]

I hate to ask this, but how does this manifest itself? It seems like you are being unselfish to everyone, but really not liking yourself at all. Is it out of guilt and rote? Does this lead to any self destructive behavior? Do you struggle internally because you feel compelled to be unselfish, but you really aren't happy in being so? I don't mean that you aren't an unselfish person, but does it almost feel like you are trapped?

Finally, if you had children how did you treat them?

It manifests itself in a vicious circle. I think I am worthless. I let people treat me like that and always try to excuse them and make them feel good. But they put me down accuse me of being selfish and useless, as soon as I do anything that they do not like. But that is Ok I am worthless so that is the behaviour I should receive.

Means I have put up with an abusive controlling husband and did not even realise it until recently, because that is all I thought I should have. That is the norm.

I treat my children like they are the most special things ever. They are to have everything I did not get as a child. To the point that I am definitely spoiling them and am somewhat overprotective.

But I do not want to control them and them to become like me, a useless child who cannot function on her own. So I do realise that they need to learn and do things themselves and that I am bringing them up to be able to be independent and cope in the adult world and they need to be able to make their own decisions and have their own opinions. And I try and praise them at every opportunity but I also encourage them to do things when they don't want to sometimes, (not controlling) just letting them see that failure is not the end of the world and if they try they can do well even though they think they can't. Huge balancing act parenting!

 

[IvyMillie]

Lizio I don't know how you survived that! I feel really bad for what you went through. That's alot of heavy emotional abuse. I hope at least that you can feel that you've come through that--I mean survived something so horrible. It pains me that all of your family let you down so terribly. I'm glad you had the fortitude to get away from such a bad situation.

My situation was kind of similar in some ways. My sister was the favorite although the older child. We were also a year apart. It caused a weird dynamic, because she acted like my best friend. However, she never stood up for me when my mom endlessly abused me. I know she couldn't.

What saved my life is that my grandma came and took me away from my mom when I was 12 years old. I then went to live with my dad who disliked me, but was not verbally abusive about it. My step mom was wonderful to me. I feel bad that you were stuck in such a situation without any escape.

It is funny how when you are raised by a controlling, manipulative, and abusive person that is the last thing you want to be. Actually, being the non-favorite of my mother and father actually helped me. I think my sister and brother have had a harder time of life in some ways than I have.

The controlling person tends to have a more love/hate relationship with the favorite. When it's just plain hate--maybe it's more predictable. This is twisted isn't it?

It's hard for me when my husband gets really controlling. It makes me feel suffucated. I'm sorry that yours is controlling the money you spend. My husband has moods so he is always changing. One of his moods is controlling then he doesn't want me to spend any money on anything.

I sincerely hope you can learn to love yourself more. You are worth alot. I feel terrible that you have such a low self-image. As far as I'm concerned nobody is ugly. Everybody has something beautiful about them. It sounds like you are a good mom--that's a beautiful thing isn't it?