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News SGB PTSD Treatment Article

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I know that my result was not a placebo effect.....it was so surprising and dramatic it was almost a little terrifying at the very beginning. It took 3 weeks or more for me to get used to the slowing down of all life and how my brain processed everything with much less anxiety. When I look back pre-SGB, I feel like I was on speed my whole life. No wonder things were so overwhelming. Whatever studies may show, I am 7 months post-SGB and still doing very well. No meds at all and just monthly "checking in" cognitive therapy after 25 years of barely surviving. Whatever happened to my brain was profound and not within my abilities to simply imagine, I am sure.
Even if 60-70% is not placebo-based, that is not the worst odds v. the safety and speed of this treatment's outcome or v. meds or other therapies. I feel that my kind of response (and I am not alone) still makes it worth a "shot" for many who are ready to try-------sorry--terrible pun. ;)
 
member1100 - look locally for pain management doctors where you live. Anesthesiologists who work with pain and spine issues can most likely perform the SGB block for you. Use the Internet and phone directory for your area....If you call around and ask for someone who performs the Stellate Ganglion Block you will eventually find someone. It is a common procedure although still not common for PTSD. For more help, contact me and I can send you links of info to bring to a doctor when you locate one. Good luck. Kim
 
Here's a happy something to bump this thread up into existence once again, and which is also a HUGE victory for those who want to see this procedure become a more mainstream and empirically validated treatment for PTSD:
[DLMURL]http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/12/navy-ptsd-neck-injections/[/DLMURL]
 
Interesting to see the results... however I will add, Navy PTSD rates and severity are near nothing compared to ground troops. Even the US Navy have little actual ground troops that have direct combat contact, bar medical evacuations... with the exception of elite level, which is nothing in numbers compared to Navy personal.

Saying that... I still hold to my initial statements, being that if this can even quickly treat mild PTSD, then its fixing a portion of the problem which is better than nothing.

At the end of the day, psychological issues do come down to biological aspects, being the brain... but where those points cross for treatment pathways... unknown to myself.
 
Sorry...been away. Thanks IchBin for the positive article.....yay!
As an update, I am approaching 9 months since my injection and still have a noticeably calmer and more comfortable adrenaline level and no severe anxiety or depression and no more meds. I am so happy to hear this is also helping others...so very happy.
Again, if anyone wants links to articles to bring to a doctor for exploring this procedure, please contact me. I do not always check this thread, but a private convo will reach me.

Lonnie, I will email you now.
 
I would like to comment on the placebo effect because I don't think most people understand what it means.

The effect the patient receives is real, can be curative, and can be permanent. When the placebo effect was first studied, it wasn't understood. And like most things not understood by medicine, it had to be chicanery, fake, psychological, nuts. So initially, it was thought that if a person responded to a placebo that the original issue wasn't physiologically or anatomically real.

What we know now is that the placebo effect IS real and actually works on many people and that there isn't any way except with randomized controlled trials to tease out the percentage of the effect in a group of subjects.

Placebos also have side effects - they can cause people to be drowsy, nauseated, constipated, short of breath - you name it. The side effects are real - patients actually experience nausea and vomiting for instance.

SGB needs to be studied in a large, diverse population with blinded evaluators, rigorous follow-up with standardized testing/questionaires.

I would not recommend it casually because the procedure has its own component of risks. Some of these are side effects that always happen: eyelid droops, the patient is hoarse, the feeling of not being able to breathe because the diaphragm on the blocked side doesn't work until the block wears off, and all of these feelings can make people panic. If the patient has some significant lung disease, he might even need to be intubated and placed on a ventilator.

The block can also result in injury to the lung (pneumothorax) requiring a chest tube to be placed. If the needle punctures a blood vessel (and there are several in that region) a patient can have a seizure, a stroke, bleeding into the chest (hemothorax). If the local anesthetic is accidently injected into a blood vessel, the patient can have cardiac arrest and die. If the local anesthetic is accidently injected into the spinal cord, the patient can be a quadrapelegic.

Even if the procedure is done by someone who does them routinely and is done under fluoroscopy (real time X-ray) any of those complications can occur. I read case reports in all of my journals - that is where those things typically show up. However, not every bad thing that happens to patients gets published as a case report. Case reports represent the tiniest tip of the ice berg.

Cervical epidurals were becoming more common in the past five years - and the case reports of really bad things happening increased until finally the federal government stepped in and laid down guidelines about who should get them and under what circumstances.

SGB might be a wonderful treatment for some or many or all - but until it is studied, people must realize that there are dangers. While the statistical risk for a given procedure might be estimated: in a German publication where anesthesiologists who perform stellate ganglion blocks were surveyed, the incidence of serious complications was about 2 per 1000 patients out of 45,000 SGBs, but only half of the people surveyed responded. The half who didn't respond might have had more complications than those who did respond.

Lastly - statistics are great; but if you become one of the statistics, it is 100% for you. I take clonidine every night which performs a chemical stellate ganglion block on my brain and that works for certain aspects of my PTSD problems. Even so, I would not recommend every PTSD patient be placed on clonidine. There are side effects and risks with the medicine.
 
I was willing to accept any and all of those risks for the chance to have a life worth living again...and it paid off. One could ask: what is more dangerous, the risk of complications from something like this or the risk of suicide due to unbearable psychological agony? Just my take. I'm excited to hear about the results from Lipov's first double-blind placebo-controlled study (which is what the link was for).
 
One could ask: what is more dangerous, the risk of complications from something like this or the risk of suicide due to unbearable psychological agony?
That is the very real and exact problem with severe PTSD... those who function in daily life, work, etc... they are less likely to be prone to suicide, etc, and their symptom severity is likely far less than some at the more severe spectrum. Saying that, severe spectrum of symptoms comes and goes...

Its a tough call. I still believe people should get this in order to help garnish these results. Obviously people do it at their own risk...

I know this was tried on some land based soldiers, typically being those with the most severe spectrum, and the results were not that good, hence the military have rejected his plee's.
 
My understanding is that the eyelid droop, etc. are all signs that a doctor looks for to confirm proper placement of the SGB needle. These risks are only for a couple of hours after and while the patient is still under observation. When my right eyelid drooped a bit for a while after my SGB, my doc knew he did it right. He wanted to see the droop.
Also, if you read more on the safety of the SGB, in use for over 80 years, you will know that it is very safe indeed. There is plenty of SGB info in the new book by Lipov mentioned below.
I completely agree with the risk factors as described by Ich Bin, as would many others in total misery. After research, I felt more at risk when having a tooth pulled, to be honest.
And alll the pharmaceuticals I put in my body for 25 years to help with PTSD certainly did more damage, I am sure. Now I need them no more.

As far as placebo effects, say all you want, but this procedure sure made a huge difference in my life, and I am positive I could not have achieved all I have felt since with just the power of my mind. You could use the placebo effect excuse for anything you fear if you so choose.
The science makes sense and the results for those who have had success are wonderful. I feel that for most people it is very much worth the small risks and that the relief that can come from this is so profound and immediately known that it is well worth a try. Ultimately, it is really up the doctor to clear you for a safe procedure if you are interested, and by all means, risks should be discussed with the performing physician.

Thanks again for the great link Ich Bin.....if anyone missed the post above to this weeks; WIRED.COM article on the current SGB navy trials, it is here: [DLMURL]http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/12/navy-ptsd-neck-injections/[/DLMURL]
Lipov is currently in San Diego doing many interviews on this subject.

Also, Lipov's book is now out and it can clear up a lot of misconceptions. It is on Amazon.....buy it and learn.
Dead Link Removed
 
Perfect. I just bought the book. Thanks so much Kim for that link! Beyond that, do you know of any other resources in print or on the internet where I could find out more about the research in this area? Right now I am winding down my undergraduate career and I am considering making PTSD treatment research and/or medical school part of my future plans.
 
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