News SGB PTSD Treatment Article

[Girl3]

I have nearly succeeded in suicide 4 times. So despite the fact that I work has never made me less likely to do so.

I have participated in a number of trials - all with risks, some of them possibly severe - it is up to the individual to assess those risks.

Horners syndrome - the dropping eyelid, shortness of breath are a known side-effect of both SGB and Interscalene nerve blocks. And yes it is usually temporary. But if the stellate ganglion is damaged or the interscalene nerve is damaged, it will be permanent.
When I did pain management, I did SGBs. I still do interscalene nerve blocks almost daily as I work in a busy hospital where we do ortho 5 days a week. I have an honest discussion with patients about the risks. In the last 5 years I have done more than 1000 blocks. I have had one patient who got rapid lymphatic uptake - an event that occurs about 1:2000 blocks.

Recalling the German data, if everyone on this website gets a stellate ganglion block, then about 34 can expect to have a bad outcome - a complication that is serious.

Dr. Lipov had an abstract that included 7 patients which not not blinded in any way :
Pain Physician 2011; 14:E465-E491 • ISSN 2150-1149. His book is based on the work that he has done, and yest the block is being investigated in several different platforms by others - that is the way successful research is done.

The risks of any drug or procedure are borne by the patient, not the physician or drug company.

If a treatment fails for you - that can also make you suicidal. 2 years ago after emergency knee surgery I was unable to run because of a foot drop from the surgery itself - over the course of the next several months I became quite suicidal and had to stop working and get very intensive therapy.

The drug trial I will participate in beginning in February has the risk of liver failure - but I will have blood tests every 14 days and medication will be stopped if my liver begins to fail. But the science behind the drug is well concieved and based on previous randomized controlled trials. So I am willing to take the risk. But I wouldn't recommend the trial for every PTSD patient.

 

[Girl3]

Ich bin - if you Google Scholar any topic of interest in science, you will see who is publishing their data. Places that are currently doing most of the PTSD research are those with large DOD grants, many of which also have large VA hospital affiliates. In the northeast, Yale, Mount Sinai in NYC, NYU all have significant grants. Bethesda/NIMH of course does a significant amount of research in the field.

ClinicalTrials.gov is a resource to look at as well. If you put PTSD in the search bar you will find all sorts of trials and if you see where those trials originate, that will tell you where the residency programs are.

For those who want to participate in trials, the ClinicalTrials.gov link provides contacts via email and phone, as well as inclusion/exclusion criteria for potential patients.

Good luck with studies as well as your PTSD.

 

[IchBin]

That's just the thing, I can speak of PTSD in the past tense now -- because the two blocks I had eliminated it. : D

 

[Girl3]

That's great. And when people have a good outcome they want to share that with everyone. I'm very happy for you.

 

[Kim A4]

Backtracking a bit......regarding the DOD "refusal" to do studies for Lipov, there is a lot to the process that is misunderstood. I personally connected Dr. Lipov to my own state Senator and worked as a liaison with Lipov and the Senate for several months trying to get DOD approval. You have no idea how bureaucratic and and how impossible it is to get the DOD to fund anything. It is a monumental task and Lipov decided to put his energies elsewhere after 4 years of struggling and being denied funding based on minuscule semantics and infuriating nit-picking.
Also...will someone please explain why some on this site insist on bringing down those of us whose lives have been saved? I cannot imagine going to a cancer site and bad-talking treatments that have saved sufferers.....

 

[anthony]

Cancer is a physical and biological illness. Whilst it can be misdiagnosed, it either exists or it doesn't.

PTSD is more misdiagnosed than actually correctly diagnosed, because mental health is a "best guess" assessment from a treating physician, based on "their" interpretation and experience.

Therefore, it can be easily discarded that a person doesn't have PTSD at all, and instead has a lesser cause of PTSD symptoms equating to a lesser, non-permanent diagnosis that can be completely treated and never return.

Vast difference between the two. Because someone is told they have PTSD, or believes they have it, does not mean they necessarily have it. Studies have conclusively shown that people can be trained, coaxed, and even think they have it and "perform" during therapy consultations and life generally, to have something they don't really have. Malingering is an extremely difficult diagnosis to make... near impossible in most cases with mental illness.

When you have psychologists, nurses, GP's, counsellors and so forth, all running around making diagnoses of people, based on the above factors, it doesn't come close to comparing recovery with someone having cancer.

The only people who should be diagnosing is psychiatrists, and still, a diagnosis takes several repeat sessions to be accurately made. There is one near fool proof method to diagnose PTSD, and the problem is that it takes a psychiatrist about 90 minutes to interview the patient, in person, in order to correctly assess and diagnose, plus the several follow-up sessions... and it is rarely used due to its time requirement.

So someone saying they have PTSD, then using some off-track treatment protocol and claim its a 100% success, does not exactly make it so, based on all above factors. A person could display PTSD symptoms due to the pain they experience, which is what SGB treats... pain. SGB has failed on many a patient thus far, and rarely scratched the surface for severe and complex cases, however; it also needs further testing. It could purely be a placebo... which whilst placebo is real and works, one must also weigh up the risks associated with a placebo based treatment if determined that way.

There is far to many unknowns to claim whether someone had PTSD to begin with, and whether an off-shelf treatment actually worked at all, because the severity can only be measured over a constant assessment period, and the assessing doctor would have to partake in the persons life at points to see how they function to determine symptom severity.

Mental health is a vast unknown, and again, best guess. Its not comparable to biological medicine which can be seen and proven.

 

[Kb3]

The only people who should be diagnosing is psychiatrists, and still, a diagnosis takes several repeat sessions to be accurately made.

This is off topic but I feel it is important to address. Apologies if I am speaking out of turn and I really do not mean to be argumentative.

If I had waited around for my psychiatrist to diagnose me with PTSD before I pursued outside therapeutic treatment, I would be dead by now. I sat in front of one for three years repeating symptoms of my PTSD to him at each session.

Because my records came to him stating that I had bipolar II, he chose to minimise what I was telling him, and attributed my anxiety, depression and insomnia to my original dx. As he specialises in trauma, I mistakenly thought that I was in the right place.

I was able to independently find a good trauma therapist who has been hugely helpful to me. I am very grateful to have found someone who has taken the time to get to know me, and really understand what I have been through, both recently and in my childhood.

Psychiatrists may be very helpful to a lot of people, but if you have a complex mental health history, they may not be able to see past their professional biases enough to be of help.

It is so important to keep seeking help until you are successful, and that is my only reason in bringing this up.

Again, sorry, this is definitely off topic, and is certainly specific to my own experiences, but I'm sure it's not an isolated case.

 

[anthony]

There is such a thing as a second opinion though... third as well, still maintain psychiatrists, being the actual people who have the qualification to diagnose. A psychologist does not have a qualification to diagnose, hence why for insurance and legal purposes, a person typically requires a diagnosis from a psychiatrist.

Anyone less does not possess the qualification... hence any diagnosis from lesser than a psychiatrist is subjective, speculative and possibly incorrect.

I'm not saying a psychiatrist doesn't get it wrong... because they do, though they are much less likely. If you're ever unsure, then you seek across two or more of them for an overall assessment. When you have two or three psychiatrists saying the same thing to you, if in doubt, then chances are it is you who is wrong, not them. If you get a varied degree of diagnoses across them, then you have cause to question further between them to ascertain some certainty.

Psychiatrist will often talk amongst themselves when one says one thing, another says differently, etc... they will then cross communicate normally for your best interest and agree on some commonality for you, so you have that certainty.

I've seen three different psychiatrists over the years, and all three concluded the same without question. I would suggest that route to be perfectly honest.

 

[soulofLC]

I was paranoid in the sense that the verbal abuses I had endured were self-exaggerative and easily believed to be true

I am just working my way through this thread, but the above words extracted from your post hit me over the head like a tsunami. Yes, that is the perfect expression for what I also endured, along with an early near death experience at the age of three. Thank you for putting it so succinctly and clearly for me! It was believable, but seemed so innocent compared to what many endure.

I just applied to the Chicago foundation for the treatment. Wish me luck!

 

[IchBin]

I am so very happy to hear it, soul. If you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to message me. (I don't want to speak for Kim, but I'm sure she'd be willing to answer any questions you have as well) Keep us updated on how it goes!

 

[soulofLC]

Thank you IchBin, I will be happy to report back. Feeling a bit hopeful for the first time in a long time, while trying not to hold my proverbial breath!

 

[Kim A4]

Uncomplicated PTSD IS a physical condition and can be detected with imaging- just like cancer. If you read Lipov's new book, his explanation will help you see that. I have addresses this topic at least once before here.

PTSD is not mental illness, as it is commonly brought on by often a singular and mere seconds-long event. It is physical brain over-reaction that forces excess adrenaline production and I have no reason to believe otherwise, especially the more I read and learn and continue to know myself and others.

My point is one of courtesy and empathy towards those who the treatment has helped, and an attempt to say that downplaying or degrading this treatment's potential is hurtful to those, including myself, who have had tremendous success and whose lives may very well have been saved. I appreciate devil's advocacy and caution, but having cancer was used as an analogy due to its evasive and lethal nature, much like PTSD.

My point is that I feel it is insensitive to knock anything that has proven to be a life saver for those "listening". I feel I can easily relate to a cancer survivor emotionally, as a PTSD survivor. Both situations are terrifying, life threatening and and life-altering, and to diminish, negate or dash hopes for those who are curious or who have come out the other side of the SGB procedure amazed and reborn is not in any way productive. The high SGB success rates continue to support that this treatment is a HUGE advance in PTSD treatment therapies and I do not feel anyone should be discouraged or frightened away from learning more and potentially seeking this as an option if they so choose.

Again, my hopes are that this thread remains open-minded, ever-informative and positive-thinking. The last thing we all need is any more negativity toward the potential for a very promising new cure or invalidation of our respective successes.

Thank you Ich Bin for also reaching out to assist others. I am happy to "share" and have no intention of dominating the support end of things on this site.....the more of us that can inform and support others looking for help the better! I hope one day we can all be ex-PTSD and share what we have learned.

As 2011 ends today, I wanted to send out a huge thank you to all others who support this thread and remind everyone that what you read here is solid proof that things can and will get better if you persevere and not give up on finding releif. I feel next year will one of tremendous PTSD discovery and scientific learning. Military economics alone are forcing the issue to the forefront and the topic is becoming more and more addressed everywhere now that it is being better understood and less stigmatized.

Let us all make 2012 a year of healing and forward-thinking about our own conditions as well as those around us. Please,please....do not give up!

My heart is full with thoughts of you all, and with sincere wishes for an end to what is truly pervasive and undeserved suffering, and if my input here can help just one other person find PTSD relief as I did, then I am so very grateful and happy.

Happy New Year to all! :tup: K