Sleep

[Jimmy1]

I thought I would start a new post on this as it has been mentioned quite frequently of late.
Sleep has probably been mentioned in other posts too, and also in Anthony's documents he has written, but from personal experience, I did not read through every post when I first joined. We have quite a big following whether they be members or non-members. The other issue is that no veteran on this site is at the exact stage of recovery as any other veteran. So here goes....

This is just my opinion and some info that I learnt on the PTSD course I did, also some stuff that has worked for me..

Military conditioning plays a major part in my opinion. Whether being Army, Navy, Airforce etc, it is drilled into us very early to sleep lightly so we can respond to attack, alarms or just to get up for sentry/guard/security patrol etc, etc. So when we come out of our respective boot camps, we have transitioned from a teenager who sleeps in, to a service person who can respond and act at a moments notice.

No lets add warlike service whether it be land or sea. You sleep even more lightly because of the threat of attack, and after an attack, you sleep even more lightly again. In my opinion, you don't enter that REM sleep that deep sleep we all need to 'Reset' our brains as Deb mentioned in another post. I call it our period where we file away the days activities into memories.

So, when a trauma happens and we are away on warlike service, we don't get to sort it out and file it away. Back home you would have counselling straight away to help with that filing, or sick leave and counselling depending how bad the trauma is. But when you see death and destruction every day and your life is at risk every day and this is for a prolonged period of six months or more, its like there is a whole filing cabinet of thoughts, events, traumas has been picked up and just dumped on the floor. Then we return home.

So, we are home with our families. How do you expect to just sleep through the night like nothing is happening? Some people can. Other people self medicate. They drink themselves into unconsciousness. The problem is you are in a stupor, and unconscious. You are still not in REM sleep. So you try sleeping medication, once again, this just alters your consciousness, you are still not in REM sleep. And when you do manage to fall into a deep REM sleep, you are faced with that upturned filing cabinet. No wonder you have nightmares.

The only way to deal with that filing cabinet is by therapy, un-training, and sometimes medication, otherwise it will always be there. Like the boxes you have not unpacked from your last move. Its a long and drawn out process, but you will get there eventually.

The last part of this is what I was taught and that is 'Sleep Hygiene'. Make sure you have a comfortable bed, make sure you have a comfortable pillow. Get rid of the TV and the clock radio.
Sleep generally comes in waves of approx 90 min apparently. You know when you stay up to watch a program and your dog tired 30 min before it, but if you push through, you end up wide awake. They say what you should do is wait for that moment to try and sleep.
No coffee or caffeine from about 2 pm onwards, that was hard for me.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Wagon]

Ahh Sleep. That illusive and oh so wonderful past time that I unfortunately don't participate in so well any more. For 20 years of more, my sleep has been royally screwed.

It started with the nightmares, which were so frequent on my ship amongst the crew we even assigned them a name. Called them "Wagonmares". Allot of us had the same type of dream. They were deeply disturbing, you didn't want to go back to sleep again. Not surprising for a bunch of traumatized folks sitting on a floating time bomb in a war zone.

When I got out, the night mares made at least a weekly visit, and would put me out of sorts for days. When I discovered that marijuana chased the dreams away, I thought I was saved. My sleep cycle went to a wopping 4 hours. But something was still amiss. Night sweats, and my bed looked as if someone had attacked it, sheets twisted and wet, pillows thrown all over. Just a big mess.

And that has been the nature of my sleep for 20 plus. However, I've gone backwards again in recent history. Since being diagnosed with PTSD and admitting that the beast has been running more than its far share of my life, the sleep has gone right out the window. 2 hours are all that i get. Then up, then back down again, 2 hours max. And I still attack my bed every night. My wife reports that when we were first going out, we were sleeping in a small bed on some weekend trip. Evidently I tried to claw my way through a wall and was gasping for air. I didn't remember it or the dream, but just to hear her tell me this....really disturbed me.

I used to pride myself in that I could sleep anywhere in any situation. I think now this is just a marker of exhaustion. Of course I can sleep anywhere, because I need to, to survive and stay alive. Cat naps are king in my world.

This is why this sight is top notch. In writing this little ramble on my sleep problems, I just realized that my sleep issues are not just a result of my trauma, but that it is directly linked. I fear sleep. I love it so, but deep down I fear it intensely. I fear being trapped, suffocated and/or drowned. I fear someone coming up and shaking me awake (because the only time that would happen is if you were in danger. You don't touch sleeping sailors.) I fear being woken up by alarms and screams. And though I don't remember the dreams, something is happening every night, because the state of my bed tells the tale.

The USS Arizona memorial is a mass grave. 1017 men were trapped below decks when she went down. Sunday morning in port, holiday routine, time to catch up on sleep after a rough Saturday out. Many of them are still in their rack. Sleeping.

I'm not even sure what 8 hours of sleep feels like. I can't remember when that happened. But i do know now that it is primary on my list of things to address. I don't care if it's meds, drugs, or a big hammer. I need sleep. If someone could suggest an over the counter sleep aid, that would be great. Anything. Because exercise is not cracking it. I just fight sleep until I'm absolutely exhausted, then go down for my 2 hours. I'm not in therapy yet. Another month and half till I get there. Any relief would be welcome.

I feel like I've just had a major revelation, doesn't fix anything, but I've discovered something. Actually I feel like I've just shit my pants in public. A bit embarrassed. Sorry so long......again.

Wagon

 

[Jimmy1]

Wagon, 20 years?? Have you been suffering with PTSD for 20 years? Wow.

Another thing to take into account is that as we get older, the less sleep we need. Its like food.
When we are in our late teens/early twenties, we ate like a horse, played sport, and slept for 10 hours plus.
Once we reach our mid 40's, unless we are really active, and I mean sportsman active, the quantity of food and sleep we need diminishes.

Famous people like Albert Einstein slept very little later on in his life.

Another problem we may have is that we worry so much about not getting sleep that we just won't sleep. Its like getting anxious about being anxious if that makes sense.
I have taken it as a given that I am awake three or four times a night, generally. Then out of the blue I will sleep longer and only wake up once. You just have to learn to take the good with the bad. However, if you are only sleeping a couple of hours a night, see your doctor as it is not healthy.

My therapist still insists that cat naps or grandfather naps are generally not healthy if you are searching for a good nights sleep. However; if you don't have access to a therapist, or have not officially been diagnosed yet and don't have access to therapy or medication, then cat naps can help. I was told that a power naps (20 minutes or less) are healthy though. Personally, I just lay down and think of my happy place for a little while, I am not really sleeping.
Once again, my therapist who I have had for 4 years now has told me that sitting upright in a chair and practising deep breathing and relaxing the mind is better. Am going to try that.

 

[Wagon]

Wagon, 20 years?? Have you been suffering with PTSD for 20 years? Wow.

Ummm, I don't know Jimmy. When you put it in that context. Maybe I have. Seems a bit of a shocker to myself to accept that. But if I review, I guess there are some giant flashing neon signs in my past that would say "YES". I was homeless for about a year in 94-95. Periodic raging alcoholic (that's allot better now), smoking cigarettes like a bandit (I have never been without that crutch for 20 years, I would have lost my mind) drugs and could not hold my relationships together (but seriously, some were huge bad choices, ooof)

And of course the latest and greatest of just having a mental collapse. Have I been this way this bloody long? Why didn't anyone say anything? WTF. Makes me a bit angry. Mostly at myself. I just thought it was all small stuff you know. Toughen up and get on with it. That's what I did.

Thanks for the sleep advice. I'll try to practice some relaxation techniques. Looking at my bed now. I got about 5 hours last night, was up once. The bed is a twisted shambles, again. Looks like monkeys invade every night and really muck up the place.

I've got some thinking to do now. Strange day. Thanks again.

 

[Ned]

I've got some thinking to do now. Strange day. Thanks again.

Yes well you are not alone in having strange days mate. I don't know if they're good or bad. Sometimes they do seem like an advantage, throwing me out of my normal perspective, and some good comes of that.
Now I'm going to pretend I'm a psychoanalyst but for F#@k's sake don't place any value on that!
If the bad things happened while you were in what most people would think of as their safest place (i.e. tucked up in your scratcher), could that, just possibly, explain the really bad sleep thing?
My triggers are crowds, fast cars in an urban environment, shouting, hand-held radios, anything that sounds like a chopper turbine (washing machine spin revving up).
BUT, I can retreat from most of them just by going to my duvet. Suppose that's got an association for you? That'd be a bastard, but best recognised.
I am very lucky that most of my bad stuff happened on the job, and not while I should've felt safe. Pongos spend less time sleeping in the office. Jimmy's techniques could help.
Just a thought....

 

[Wagon]

Thanks Ned. Yup, I actually recognized the trigger for the problem yesterday. What to do to solve it I have no idea. I'll try relaxation techniques.

I have some conditions I need in order in to get what passes for a good nights sleep.
Has to be dark. None of this midnght sun horse shit. At the moment I can't black out the room.
Needs to be cool. Anything above 25, uncomfortable and stifling.
A decent pillow or better, a whole herd of pillows.
Background noise. A constant humming is nice. Silence equals DANGER. On my first ship I used to wake up the instant we lost power. Happened all the time. Damn thing was built in 39.
Helps if I can sleep with my wife. I feel safer with her. But she dare not get up in the night. Then I'm up.
I guess my best sleep was when the kids were babies and they would sleep on my chest on the sofa. Very safe feeling.

Kind of like the princess and the pea with my requirements, and even that doesn't crack all of it. Maybe I need a "blanky" or a Teddy Bear.

Got 5 last night. 3+2. About to take a nap.

 

[abnvet]

"Sleep is something that you can do when you're dead and gone" - this was something that my unit used to tell us. Guess I sort of have that logged into my brain by now as I'm luck to sleep 4 hours a night. I have nightly nightmares and wake sweating. I wish I could turn my brain off when I go to bed and wake up with a different attitude.

 

[Jimmy1]

Yep, I was told the same thing. 'You can sleep when your dead'. I was also told that if you get 8 hours of sleep every night, and you live to 60, you have slept for 20 years. What a waste hey.

Realistically, I think 5 or 6 hours sleep would be great if it was straight through and deep sleep with no other shit happening. As I said before and what is great for the majority of things in life 'Its the quality, not the quantity'.

 

[Jimmy1]

Just had a big therapy session today. A lot of the focus was on sleep. I told my therapist it seemed like it took me ages to go to sleep then I was awake at midnight, then again at 3 am, then up at 6 am. She told me this was fine.

My therapist had recently facilitated the 'Sleep' program on the last PTSD course that was run here in Townsville.
This is what she had to say.....

She reminded me of my children and for those who don't have children, she talked about toddlers.
When they go to sleep, it happens pretty quickly and they sleep deeply, thats why you will see photo's of kids asleep in their food. They will sleep anywhere and its hard to rouse them, and they sleep for hours. You see their bodies are young, growing, learning and it takes it out of them.

When we go through puberty, our sleep patterns change, that is why a lot of teenagers have trouble going to sleep until late and when allowed, could sleep half the day.

Then we are young adults, while serving, on exercise or operations, if we get a spare 5 min, we sleep although very lightly as we are conditioned to, and yet we are also trained to sustain ages without sleep. Then as we progress up through the ranks, along with responsibility comes longer hours and sometimes no sleep.

She also said that a person in their 70's + has very, very minimal deep sleep. Their body just does not need it anymore. It is no longer growing, and they probably don't work, usually their meal size has decreased too.

In a nutshell, as a 45 year old, waking several times during the night is apparently ok.

The other thing she said is that if I keep asking myself and wondering whether I will get a good nights sleep, I probably will wake up wondering about it, does that make sense???

 

[Wagon]

I like it, but I'm deeply confused now. And my REM sleep is bullshit. No end to the crazy shit my mind can come up with. Thinking of buying some weed and stopping this shit for awhile. That does end it. Yeah yeah, I know, crap sleep. But at this point I'd rather have crap sleep than be deeply disturbed.

Have you seen the key words at the bottom?

"Can you wet when you fall into a deep sleep?" WTF

 

[Jimmy1]

There is a difference between quantity and quality of sleep. If you are waking up feeling unrested then there is a problem.

So after talking about all this shit its 1 am and I am awake. Lots of shit on my mind which is one of the key elements your meant to be able to get rid of.

An interesting fact my urologist told me Wagon, 10% of the US Army still wet their beds. Its just a chemical imbalance and they sleep so deeply that their body still produces urine. So yes, some people can wet when they fall into a deep sleep.

 

[Ned]

Jimmy thank you for digging in to this and passing it on. What you've said makes sense and allows me to feel a lot less pissed off with my sleep patterns. And I DO get the quality sleep, but it tends to be if I get back to sleep after the 03:30/04:00 wake-up!
The sleep hygiene regime works for me, too. I know when I've had a really good sleep, I look like shit....