General So, Even Though...

[Angus McGee]

Hey Angus...I've been thinking about the 'isolating' thing some this weekend. I have often wondered if the need for space/isolation is not some attempt on the part of the sufferer to be compliant to what they believe people are thinking about them and 'requiring them to do' when they hurt. My bride was conditioned (read brainwashed) to believe she was a bother or irritating and her pain was irrelevant (or some variant of that) and after whatever crisis took place in her home as a child she was basically forced into isolation i.e. 'sent to her room without any supper'. I started thinking this morning that maybe I should try validating what she feels when she starts isolating by telling her something like "You look like you want to be alone right now but you don't have to be. I know you are hurting and I would like to hear what you are feeling". Not in a "I need you here instead" way but in a way that offers my strength and love to her to lean on and rest in regardless of how tormented she feels on the inside.

Make sense?

It does, but I dont think this would work with my wife right now. She is beyond that point.

I'm believing more and more that her being on her own, either temporarily or even permanently is what's best for her. I told her last night "I will never abandon you." her reply?" Don't think of it as you abandoning me, think of it as me abandoning you."

How do I respond to that?

 

[BigBear]

How do I respond to that?

By being the north star...

 

[Tinyflame]

Dear Angus, I believe she may mean she has failed you. Don't lose hope.

I cannot speak of others, but I think complexmind's quote above is almost the lowest one can go, and still be 'technically' in the land of the living. I can relate entirely to isolation (vs a 'healthy reprieve') as being (in my thoughts and my 'reality') as what is warranted of me to do to protect others.

As complexmind said above, I realize that since a child, to express any hurt (physical or emotional), to 'tell', to even 'say' or 'be' in need was sometimes either explicitly condemned, at best minimized- never a good thing, nor was I anything but a burden to express even an inkling of it, or I was left feeling it would increase burdens of which there were too many already. I was also rewarded to not do so.
-It was so unlike my own heart!

I think complexmind hit it right, when he said "I know that you are hurting" and "I would like to hear what you are feeling". The first part because it's accurate truth, but I don't think a sufferer- especially one isolating- would say it, the second because that is a never-thought-of option or reality. I can honestly say in a lifetime, I cannot recall anyone asking me that? I know they must have- someone?, at some point- but I really can't remember. Therefore I also didn't know what I was feeling, and also it was very bad to express it. Hand-in-hand with that goes, is that it's devastating and burdensome to ask for help, or to be someone who needs it. Whereas with isolation, no one knows you need it, therefore you are less of a burden.

I can't really express this to do the quote justice- it really says more than I have ever been able to.

 

[Muzikluvr]

Complexmind: It makes perfect sense. My family brainwashed me to think that I was too sensitive, too needy, etc... There seems to be a lot of shame for me around needing comfort. I feel the sting of it in my eyes, I feel the burn on my cheeks, and I have a hard time making eye contact.

In the beginning, my husband would try to console me by touching me when I was upset, I would shrug him off and run away. I isolated myself until I could rationalize what had happened to set me off and realized that it wasn't his fault it was something from the past. Sometimes I resented that I was wrong to be angry with him, and that I had to go out there and eat crow. But I liked the logic that he used and how that logic applied to me too. And he never rubbed it in. He knows how to fight fair. This was when I still thought my family was fine and there was something wrong with me.

His touch when I was upset said to me "please stop, you're upsetting me. I can't handle seeing you in pain. No more crying." And it made me feel like he was trying to control me or manipulate me. I felt like a hug was physical restraint and I panicked.

Knowing that my husband wants to comfort me, but is okay with me isolating first and then coming back to him is great. It's kinda awkward when I come back into the room after rejecting him, but he's learned to hold his arms open wide and invite me in. I don't have to hug him, and I can see that he stoically accepts the further rejection. But it's not about him and he knows that. It's just that sometimes I come back in and the thought of snuggling with him feels like I'm going to be trapped. Sometimes I just hug him briefly. Sometimes we talk it out, sometimes we don't.

My understanding of my family is that they had to deny my pain and convince me that it wasn't really painful so that I wouldn't seek help from teachers, preachers, police officers, etc... I believe this happens in most abusive families. The children are taught to toughen up or feel nothing so they won't attract attention.


I hope this helps you see how I related to your post. And, I hope you're wife is able to accept comfort from you soon.

 

[Muzikluvr]

My experience felt a lot like Shakespeare's The Taming of the Shrew. I thought I'd hate that play, but it struck home. Her family was crazy. Mean. Insensitive. Her husband was not. She starts out the play angry, violent even when he asks her for basic things a partner is needed for... at that time, he needed her to cook, clean and have sex with him. Ugh. I was offended. I wanted her to beat the crap out of that guy and leave. But, by the end I realized that he was a good guy and that he was a good partner. He was useful. He stood up to her dad. They became a team and her family saw it as "The Taming of the Shrew" but her husband saw that he and his wife had learned how to love each other and how to work together. They understood each other and they provided for the needs of one another. It didn't matter that her family thought her husband had "tamed" her. She was so over them. Great Play!

 

[Angus McGee]

Last night, we had another round. This one went much differently. It started out with me telling her that I was okay with her moving out. It took a lot for me to get to that point, because to me, it was like agreeing that our separation/divorce was the right thing to do when every cell within me was screaming the opposite. However, it's not about my wants or needs, it's about her. I had to set myself aside, again, and give her the "permission" to leave.

After a couple hours (this was through the email, and she was busy at work), I asked her, "How much of you moving out is to isolate yourself so you can heal, and how much of it is you wanting to get away from me and our marriage?"

I really didn't know what to expect. However, I was prepared for a 50/50 response, thinking that was how she felt.

How did she reply? isolating to heal 100/0 getting away from you.

wow. She also told me she is going to go 6 month or month to month on her lease, whichever is shorter. She told me that night terrors are a distinct possibility with her treatment, and she does not want to subject our two kids to her screaming in the middle of the night. That is completely understandable, and her answer gives me much hope that we can get through this, and heal our relationship.

What a difference a day makes. Last night, I was prepared to sign up for eHarmony. Today, not a chance.

 

[BigBear]

isolating to heal 100/0 getting away from you.

Wow! That's huge. Massive high 5!

I don't know how old your kids are. Its going to potentially be massively hard on them being without mom.

Its also going to be very hard on her. No one to cling to after she throttles the demons to the ground. Expect lots of middle of the night calls. In fact, encourage them.

Bear

 

[Angus McGee]

Yeah, it is huge. A tremendous weight was lifted off my back when I read her response. I have made myself as available as I can to her whenever, however she wants. I tell her constantly that she is not alone, and none of the events that have happened to get her to this point are her fault, and her feelings are completely understandable. That's why it was so hard for me to believe she would still want to leave. What I didn't understand is that she was trying to spare us from seeing her struggle to heal. Our kids are 1.5 years old and 16.

Our 16yo daughter and I are VERY close, and there has been plenty of times where she has been my rock, as odd as that may seem. I can't imagine she will come through this experience unaffected, but my hope, and I've told her this, is that she sees how hard I've worked to help her mother, how much I love her mother in spite of everything, and how much I want her mother to heal.

I'm doing my best to be a good example of a Godly husband for her so when she dates, she uses the benchmark I've set as her guide.

 

[BigBear]

I can't imagine she will come through this experience unaffected

Last week I was there. My 12 year old daughter got to see her mother go through one of the worst meltdowns I've seen. She was shocked, but she appears to have been in no way broken. All of my kids are going to come out of this with a real heart for those in pain! It will be Angel's greatest gift to them. A blessing that will carry them very far!

Live a life that they can respect. Always take the high road. And they get it!

Bear

 

[Angus McGee]

My daughter is in a program at our church (not because of this situation, but just because it's a good idea) called "Daughters of Ruth". It's where an adult lady from the church mentors a teenage girl. My daughter's mentor and her started seeing each other more than two years ago now. No coincidence, but my daughter's mentor is a licensed counsellor. She and my daughter have met regularly through this whole process, and she is able to talk through many of the concerns/troubles she has, and the person she is talking to is a counsellor. So, in essence, my daughter is getting free counselling sessions throughout this whole process.

 

[OKRADLAK]

Bear---did you tell them she is ill?Do you think it helps to explain that she is ill and not herself then? I ask because I do not know.......I usually tell family but I am not sure I should.

I am sorry your wife had that episode. I am SOO glad you shared this and how your child seemed to understand. It makes me feel a little more brave in going to family outtings.

 

[BigBear]

Bear---did you tell them she is ill?Do you think it helps to explain that she is ill and not herself then? I ask because I do not know.......I usually tell family.

[DLMURL="http://www.ptsdforum.org/members/okradlak.8693/"]OKRADLAK[/DLMURL],


You remember me saying how America is destroying its self by tearing down the family. It's so true! [Don't get me wrong. There are bad families out there. Bad christians. Bad teachers. No group is excluded. NONE!] Good families share love. That's what family used to be about. And love overcomes all! Loved children can walk through fire, ice and bullets and never be touched by the evil.

You gave your nephew love [even in your worst moments] and so he knows how to give it back. He was reassured in love and so your strength can be his forever.

As for your sister in law, we don't know what happened to her when she was young. We don't know if her parents had plastic faces [the children always know]. Who know what trigger you caused in her... [Not your fault!]

Stay true to your love and don't hesitate to appologize.
...
"Did we tell them?" As age permits and mental age makes sense. Different children have different capabilities. I've done some really wrong things with the little ones by not letting them be with her when she was hyper stressed. They thought that she didn't love them. She's sat down with them and told them that she did love them and so on. And we always operate in love. So they are OK I think. And we always go immediately back and become a family again as soon as it's over.

The older ones know that "something terrible beyond understanding" was done to her "when she was young". And that the horror of it is attacking her mind. I feel like they get it and that they work hard to take care of her, just like they see her working hard to take care of them.

Angel will probably get on here later and say more. She's the writer. And sometimes, I can't really experss what needs to be said.

Bear