Strange Star

[sun seeker]

Based on my 'stuff' I think it sounds like you have been through the most chaotic part. The last part is getting down to brass tacks. Facing the 'real issue' and that is no treat.

I hope this isn't derailing the discussion too much, but how can you tell?

 

[Hope4Now]

And what is happening in your brain when you are in these spells? Do you brain patterns work? How do you try to get out? Do you try to move your whole body or do you work on just a tiny part (like pinky finger?). Who do you feel you are bargaining with when you try to release yourself?

It's like I am watching myself. That's the only way I can explain it. When I have the catatonic/cataleptic thing, it can go two ways: either I am just totally out of it and don't have any brain activity at all (I think this is kind of like the lost time thing) or my brain goes in and out of awareness. When the awareness is there, I can see myself and I am aware of my surroundings, but my body is frozen up. Sort of like those nightmares when you want to run or scream but you can't. But unlike the nightmares, there's not really anything terrifying going on. Just more like confusion and the body shuts down because there's no clear signal coming through about what to do. Eventually, it sorts out. And yes, sometimes moving one body part helps, like a finger or my toes. Also, if I can keep my eyes open and manage to drag my focus to different things around me.

But the other stuff, the hijacking by parts, is different from the catonic/cataleptic thing. There is sometimes more awareness. Like, "oh, this is a part." The analogy that is used sometimes in writing about this stuff is that of a car or bus with different drivers taking control of the wheel. It is a decent analogy. Because when a part is "driving the bus" sometimes I'm aware that it is, but I can't manage to get back control of the wheel. I can see that it is happening, but I can't grab the power back. On Friday, with the toy thing, I kind of stopped trying to regain the wheel and just went along for the ride. Which is pretty different from my usual m. o. I still don't know if this was a good or bad thing. I don't even know which part it was--all I know is that it was one of the young ones.

 

[Hope4Now]

I met with Yoda yesterday. I had parts that were pushing to not see him anymore (this comes up regularly), but I know I need to. I think, perhaps, the reason that my system "allowed" that young one to come out and stay out on Friday in front of him is that maybe he is now seen as someone to be trusted. (LOL, I've only been in therapy with him for three years). On Friday night, I had sent him a text saying the whole thing was scary and confusing and I wanted to talk about it, but then yesterday I didn't really want to talk about it. Just wanted to move on. So all those questions I had about whether it was a good or bad thing went unanswered because I couldn't get myself to ask. Because still there was fear that the answer would be it was bad, but that part wants it to be good. Wants to come out again.

I did tell him that I seem to be able to only connect to these parts at all when I am hijacked. And I can't remember what he said.

I remembered to bring my cards with me, though. A long while back, I made cards. Each of them has the name of a part. I am meant to lay out the cards every day as a way of connecting with the parts. I don't like doing this, and I don't often do it, though it is vaguely helpful. I have some parts that don't like it because the array of cards speaks to a system of parts that the protectors are very invested in denying.

Yesterday for the first time, Yoda laid out the cards. I think maybe because I had just dumped them on the floor. I didn't want to do it. Even though I knew I should do it. Which is why I remembered to bring the cards at all. Anyway, it was a curiously intimate experience, watching him sit on the floor at my feet and lay out the array of my parts as he sees them. And it was really helpful. Because he did it far more simply than I. And basically, his layout was pretty accurate. Eventually I joined him on the floor, and we talked about some things. I hate that I often don't remember all of what we talk about. But the appointment was okay. I was very tired. Wanted more than anything to just curl up on his floor with a pillow and go to sleep.

I do remember that he pointed out some of the cards and said they were parts that carried a lot of burden. That they held more secrets probably. I'm pretty sure this is true. I'm pretty sure this is where my feelings of foreboding, of impending disaster come from. Of all the parts, these are the ones that are the most difficult for me to "be with." I get very "activated" when I try. Meaning that the protector parts zoom in fast in all kinds of ways. The system isn't ready to deal with those yet.

So somehow I think I am now at some new place. The young part that came out on Friday really wanted to draw with the markers. But other parts shut it down, crumbled up the paper before there was much on the drawing at all. I remember the drawing. It was a child's drawing. Very young child--I recognize the attempt at a person which is reminiscent of my children's preschool attempts at around age 4. (There are general developmental patterns to children's drawings of people...it's interesting). I think I need to find a way to let this part draw what it wants to show me.

I'm pretty sure this part was from the time when the big splits happened after the first rape at around age 3-4 years old. There were parts before that, I know. I actually remember that. I know I had a girl part and a boy part and a part that was a dog (! lol!). But I exploded into a lot more parts that first night and the following morning. That is when the Watcher came--the one that sees things, that watches what happens. It is a really helpful part, but it is disconnected from my experience as a person, as a body. I need to work with this part too.

I'm going to stop writing this post now because just writing this is starting to spiral me out. I am very vulnerable right now because I am so tired, and I have a cold, and I am feeling very discombobulated living in this cottage.

 

[shimmerz]

but how can you tell?

Because from my experience, it is when we try to wrestle control that the chaos comes in. When we work with it (like Hope allowing the child part to come out) rather than try to suppress it, things go along a heck of a lot more smoothly, allowing focus to be put on what is happening and how it feels rather than spending energy on wrestling for control.

So hard to do, but for me has been quite an enlightening experience.

 

[shimmerz]

Also, if I can keep my eyes open and manage to drag my focus to different things around me.

You know, I have been studying some really interesting things about the role that eyes play in trauma/memory. Fascinating stuff. Much of the NLP stuff focuses on eyes and location and mapping.

An interesting thing with me was, when I used to freeze, my eyes would lock on a position (my friend used to bring this to my attention). I have been noticing that much of the NLP stuff talks about taking a memory, checking to see eye location, bringing the memory back and then looking at different locations and changing the vision to black and white all sorts of stuff that has to do with eyes. Just a mention as you did mention your eyes were locked.

For myself when I went into the catatonic/catalepsy states, and I think this was because of my age when I was first driven in.... I would be walking around AS IF I was seeing in the other person's (if there was someone with me) body. It was insane. It was like I was crystal clear, but not me. No idea if that makes any sense. I recall T-doc kept asking and asking me, 'Are you sure you aren't in another part of the room looking down or around'?

Nope. I absolutely wasn't. I had no feeling of me. Most likely because I hadn't learned how to be me yet.

My minister/medium chick had a trance master dude that she knew. He gave the following advice, which comes back to what Sun asked about. He suggested that I learn how to go into these trance states (as he called them) on my own. Lightly at first and then bring myself back out. And oddly enough, I did this by noticing where my eyes locked and then locking in that same location again. But the idea was to go in just a bit and then come back out (before it took me over). Rinse, repeat. Just a thought. Keep in mind that breathing changes while in these states, as does heart rate. Sensitivity to noises are a huge component as well. All of the senses, for me, were peaked.

The bottom line for me in figuring this stuff out came to exactly what I have been saying for years is the core of my issue. 'Where do you go when there is no place to go'. The body feels like it must be perfectly still. The soul splits off because it is preparing for death. Annihilation. Again, this is just me, but I can't see any other reason to go into a complete freeze/fawn reaction. So getting to the core of what I felt was an annihilation episode was important.

On Friday, with the toy thing, I kind of stopped trying to regain the wheel and just went along for the ride. Which is pretty different from my usual m. o. I still don't know if this was a good or bad thing.

Yeah, and I think this is not a bad thing, when one is in a safe place. I used to have conversations in my head, my brain would go at warp speed trying to figure something out, communicate with what this fragment needed in that moment (acceptance, a voice, to be seen, to be understood?). In the times that that fragment was not up front I would keep it in my mind and tell it that I heard it, that it was big and strong to have made itself seen. It seems kinda counter intuitive really, because if one is looking to stop this from happening, why would one let it out? And I think the bottom line was the same as the trance stuff. To be able to understand it better. To get to know it. Because you can't integrate with something you don't understand.

No idea if this makes sense at all, but these have been my observations based on my own experiences.

 

[shimmerz]

but then yesterday I didn't really want to talk about it.

I see this as a form of acceptance. Your thoughts?

but that part wants it to be good. Wants to come out again.

Or maybe it just needs to know that it no longer needs to hide. Is no longer being subjected to being pushed down.

I have some parts that don't like it because the array of cards speaks to a system of parts that the protectors are very invested in denying.

Which has me wondering that if whatever your protectors are protecting you from - if it comes out - to the forefront - is it possible that they no longer have a job and can release their roles of protectors? There is so much crap that leads up to the 'big one'. The core existential paradoxical issue. So much sorting out to do to get there. *heavy sigh*

That is when the Watcher came--the one that sees things, that watches what happens. It is a really helpful part, but it is disconnected from my experience as a person, as a body.

Very, very interesting. A watcher part. Hmmmmm

I'm going to stop writing this post now because just writing this is starting to spiral me out.

Yeah, I just read in one of the postings that working too much with this dissociation stuff can actually exaggerate the issues. I felt like that when we were all contributing to the SD thread. I had never felt anything quite like it.

Take care of you, my friend.

 

[Hope4Now]

when I used to freeze, my eyes would lock on a position

Yep, that would be me. When it starts to happen my eyes lock on something--a wall, a floor, a tree, whatever, and my vision goes haywire and it is as if I can see the molecules of whatever I'm looking at moving and swirling, as if the solid thing I'm staring at becomes liquid. It is a bizarre but interesting illusion and generally precedes my falling into the total shutdown state. So I'm learning to drag myself out of it by moving my eyes and my body before I can't. It's hard. Because the shutdown state is some sort of escape. I don't quite understand it yet, but I'm getting there.

For myself when I went into the catatonic/catalepsy states, and I think this was because of my age when I was first driven in.... I would be walking around AS IF I was seeing in the other person's (if there was someone with me) body. It was insane. It was like I was crystal clear, but not me. No idea if that makes any sense. I recall T-doc kept asking and asking me, 'Are you sure you aren't in another part of the room looking down or around'?

It does make sense. Total sense. This kind of thing happens to me too, where I am seeing (it feels like that although I know it is not objectively true) out through another person's eyes. It happens in some of my flashbacks too. I think, perhaps, when trauma occurs at a very young age, before the ego is established and boundaries, we merge into other people and become quite practiced at it? I have also read that in some trauma, part or parts of the system can take on the abuser's perspective as a way of being in control of an uncontrollable situation. And what your t-doc said is a good check-in...when I ask myself the question he asked you, I find I am often somewhere other than my body. Just happened now. :banghead::bag:

I did this by noticing where my eyes locked and then locking in that same location again. But the idea was to go in just a bit and then come back out (before it took me over). Rinse, repeat. Just a thought. Keep in mind that breathing changes while in these states, as does heart rate. Sensitivity to noises are a huge component as well. All of the senses, for me, were peaked.

Yes, it is like everything is notched up--sound, color, smells, etc. And the suggestion you gave is a good reminder to me. I learned this at some point and was practicing it. And then, as with so many things, I forgot about it.

The body feels like it must be perfectly still. The soul splits off because it is preparing for death. Annihilation. Again, this is just me, but I can't see any other reason to go into a complete freeze/fawn reaction. So getting to the core of what I felt was an annihilation episode was important.

Hmmm. Yes indeed. This thing with the body having to be perfectly still. Definitely a potential annihilation thing.

It seems kinda counter intuitive really, because if one is looking to stop this from happening, why would one let it out? And I think the bottom line was the same as the trance stuff. To be able to understand it better. To get to know it. Because you can't integrate with something you don't understand.

Yes, this is the bind I'm in. If you want to stop, why would you let it happen? Why wouldn't you fight it off? How could you let it happen? And yet, you are right apparently. I texted Yoda about this issue. Said I came to the conclusion that the part came out to test out whether he was safe. And the confusion came from the fact that he was. And that this is an attachment thing. And that I need to allow these parts to come out if I am to heal. He said, "Good insight." I'm pretty sure my child parts need to be seen and heard by someone besides me.

if whatever your protectors are protecting you from - if it comes out - to the forefront - is it possible that they no longer have a job and can release their roles of protectors?

Yes. True. Probably they are afraid of their own annihilation. In the therapy I'm doing, I remember Yoda telling me that in the healing process, the protectors can choose different jobs, or elect to calm down and stop having to work so hard/be so extreme.

I felt like that when we were all contributing to the SD thread. I had never felt anything quite like it.

Yes, me too. That was one intense conversation. Probably one of the most helpful things that's happened to me in these past few years, particularly for my intellectual parts. But since then I have learned how important it is to titrate how much work on dissociation issues one does. Because too much thinking about all this stuff is pretty destabilizing. But there also has to be just enough to understand it. I've not yet found the balance on that. I seem to dive in, or avoid completely. Sigh.

 

[shimmerz]

I don't quite understand it yet, but I'm getting there.

Have you built yourself a 'safe space' that you can retreat to using visual stuff? Call on your spirit animals to help guide you there

I've not yet found the balance on that. I seem to dive in, or avoid completely. Sigh.

This is where I have found the visual stuff to be really helpful, as one is forced to use the right hemisphere for it. It gets me out of reasoning and logic.

Just a few thoughts. I think that the 'eye' thing is a very important element of the whole trance thing. I wish I had known that about a decade ago. *heavy sigh*

 

[shimmerz]

If you want to stop, why would you let it happen? Why wouldn't you fight it off? How could you let it happen?

I think having a degree of curiosity? A really difficult place to get to - but curiosity is apparently a very healthy sign of proper attachment, and the farther I get with this stuff, the more I think that having a proper attachment to SELF (which begins with accepting the fragmented parts) is the starting point for having a proper attachment structure, period.

 

[Hope4Now]

I think a lot of my issues come from disorganized attachment. I read a book on attachment about two years ago (Wallin, I think). It was interesting, but it didn't sink in really beyond the intellectual layer of myself. I've just been watching some videos of Diane Poole Heller who does a lot of work with attachment. I am going to read this article now... http://www.reversingchronicpain.com/maggie-diane magazine transcript-P-PDF.pdf and hoping it might shed some more light on my issues. In the videos she talks a lot about "corrective experiences" but I can't suss out what she means. I know this is what I need--corrective experiences.

Last Friday was one, a corrective experience for one part of me. But one corrective experience doesn't cut it for me. Already, the power of what happened that day has faded into the morass of my forgetfulness. I am trying to hang onto it, but the old neural networks are not cooperating and my mean parts are back at me again.

@shimmerz, yes I do have visual safe spaces I can get to sometimes, if parts will let me. My real challenge, however, is getting to them before it's too late. I seem to ratchet up to internal crisis so fast. I am working really hard on noticing my physical self, even if I can't be inside my body. To identify when I'm moving up from a 5 on the anxiety scale. When I did the DBT program a little over a year ago, I did a workshop on "safety planning." The idea was to look at a scale from 0-10 with 0 being no anxiety and 10 being full crisis mode, and to identify what each of those places on the scale look/feel like to me. The recommendation was to institute calming strategies when things got to a 4 or 5, and to reach out for help if they moved up to a 6 or 7. It became very clear to me then that I live at pretty much a 5 or a 6 all the time. This has always been the case, and feels "normal" to me. So when I get activated, I move up that scale at lightning speed. Nobody really could answer for me what to do about it. Because if I followed their instructions, I'd be yelling an SOS many times each day. So basically, I've been working on just kind of keeping myself at a 5 or 6 as best I can. But increasingly I'm noticing how miserable it is to live at a 5 or 6. No wonder I am exhausted and in pain all the time. Sigh. Working with psychiatrist now on sleep stuff. I think if I could manage to sleep well, things would get better. (But I HATE saying that because I sound like my mother who was totally obsessed with her sleep issues :banghead::banghead::banghead:).

 

[Hope4Now]

I think having a degree of curiosity?

:)
Curiosity is one of the 8 C words that Internal Family Systems therapy identifies as qualities of SELF. They are:
Compassion
Curiosity
Courage
Caring
Calm
Clarity
Creativity
Connectedness

 

[sun seeker]

But one corrective experience doesn't cut it for me.

I know a doctor who is something of a trauma expert, who says we need seven positive experiences to balance out each corresponding negative experience in our brains. It's because the negative sticks so much more easily, because learning what NOT to do is a survival mechanism.

I've heard someone else say three. So I don't know, but I'd say one not being enough is normal.

At this rate, I'm going to be working on this stuff for a LONG time. :banghead::banghead::banghead: