Structural Dissociation And 'chatter' And Subsequent Answer

[Sideways]

Ahhh! No, that came out wrong - I am NOT suggesting ANYONE hear sounds like the freak of the week.

You all sound like functional humans (trying to avoid "normal"!!) and I have immense respect and gratitude to the people on this website and the help I get from these forums. No one here is a freak!!!

 

[Chava]

If I am reading this properly, it may well be that the critic drowns out the helpful voice.

Yes, I suppose my critical and self-hating voice grew as an extension of my abusive parent. The other parent, an addict, had nothing reliable to fill that void. The ability to even separate myself from my own horrible feelings was pretty impossible, and so that witness never developed along with more helpful voices. I think that all started with rehab really, and AA, because there was support and the need to slow my mind down and observe some madness from the outside (vs just get drunk) and find a different response...like reaching out to others (f*cking scary), and slowly internalizing their more helpful perspective I suppose. Then therapy.

I think that witness part is there in all of us, but definitely can be squashed by voices of abusers, total lack of healthy coping strategies, and not even being able to separate ourselves from our terrible feelings. Probably it gets a little easier as we "grow up", but also through things like mindfulness, and very certainly decent therapy, along with other sources of more positive support...for me, that is what helped validate that part of myself. Otherwise, it just wasn't even there...or when it peaked its head out the hateful parts of myself reminded it that I was not worthy, so f*ck off. Yes, the messages have to get balanced out, and that helper part has to take over a more central role within the whole of the self. That seems very key. I'm a mess of parts, but this is the one that will keep me out of the ER, you know?

 

[shimmerz]

I'm a mess of parts, but this is the one that will keep me out of the ER, you know?

Yes, and I am wondering if there is a way to 'tease' this part out at all. I mean, it seems so random. Helpful, but man oh man, if only I could call on it or trigger it somehow without having fallen to the bottom of the well and have to claw my way back up it before it speaks up.

I don't know. Perhaps just a pipe dream.

 

[ghotiff]

@Ragdoll Circus
I've written those post too, where on a second reading i can see a different interpretation from what I meant. From memory you are newish here, so to be helpful....If you click tools then edit you can edit you post. There is only a short window to do this, but much longer if you pay membership for here.
I hope that came across as I intended it to be.

 

[Chava]

if only I could call on it or trigger it somehow without having fallen to the bottom of the well and have to claw my way back up it before it speaks up

With way-back or complex trauma, I assume it just takes a shitload of practice and patience. At least that's what I'm finding.

For me, this is where the somatic perspective is helpful..staying connected to my body. Getting there to begin with took a lot of support. The meltdowns continued on my own time for a long time. Still do, but seems like much more space in between. But the witness/helper part slowly learned to notice the body cues. Ex.: tingling in face, jumbly heart rhythm = beginning of panic attack. Respond accordingly (trial and error but now I know how to stop a panic attack). Increasing or unrelenting pain + feelings of dread or stress from different angles = headed toward meltdown. Respond accordingly. Still working on this one (but getting better). Super f*cked up, Tasmanian Devil, crazy energy? Organize it and expel it somehow (exercise, resistance stuff, walk). Don't get drunk...wrong response. :):bored:

Slowly, slowly, slowly the helper part pays attention to these body cues and patterns, and also is the part that works on responding in more helpful (less destructive ways). So it's a few pieces right there: getting somewhat embodied (f*cking difficult), noticing body sensations, and also finding ways to respond. Anyway, that's how it's gotten a little easier for me to not totally derail in horrible ways. I do derail though. But I seem to get back on more easily, with less bodily and soul damage.

 

[blackemerald1]

@shimmerz I know you may have moved on from this Thread. I am late coming to it but I have read the whole Thread. So sorry.
I have an inner voice... this is what I call it. She... I think it is a she, but anyway, she is very erratic. I wish I could 'hear' her before or during meltdowns. Not after. Though the wisdom is not lost... I just have to remember not to blunder into the same chaotic meltdown again, and this is problematic because though I can 'avoid' obvious things. I am less 'aware' or completely oblivious to others. Then I end up in such a mess.
I do know once many years ago where during a traumatic event which was lethal, that this (thing) TOLD me to:"get up, wake up, dismiss physical pain & get out or you will die, do it now". And I did exactly that, though my brain & body were screaming at me to not move from pain & other stuff I can't go into... I did know that I had to do what this almost primal 'voice' told me to do. And I did.
Since then 'she' is not predictable but neither is my life. I don't hear her above the other stuff that clutters & tries to dominate and often does. I don't know why.
Is your 'voice' always after a 'event' or trigger?

 

[shimmerz]

that this (thing) TOLD me to:"get up, wake up, dismiss physical pain & get out or you will die, do it now".

Yes. I have had this. I used to curl up in frigid weather in ditches. I suppose when I was a toddler for whatever reason this was a 'safe place' for me. I lie there waiting for peace. I have noticed once or twice that my inner voice will 'tell me how to move', as I am frozen there. This seems to be at a critical time (when I am about to completely shut down).

There is a calmness about her and an authority. I know she knows what she is talking about, this 'part' of me.

Other times she comes to me in dreams. Gives me answers to something that is plaguing me. And yet other times she comes to me as I am coming out of a deep trigger event. If you can imagine, almost like a 'DUH!' (palm of hand to forehead) 'Of COURSE!' Eureka moment but almost a really obvious eureka moment. No idea if that makes any sense.

And no, I haven't moved on from this. Still applies. Now more than ever. I was grateful when it was resurrected, as I had forgotten about it.

I hope you are well my friend.

 

[blackemerald1]

Yes the 'DUH!' moments!

Yes, often after I have totally derailed, been 'off' for a while..
But, then without any bells or whistles she spears her way into my consciousness with a 'comment' which I know is correct. The moment of clarity amongst all the 'rubbish'.

I rarely get much peace from sleep, I get "auditory hallucinations". They fill me with dread & terror. They are not her.

Yes, you make sense. The problem is how does one get her to speak before meltdowns, during meltdowns, or even sooner when being plagued...
Yes, you make sense!

I have often wondered where, why 'she' informs me. But other times is silent.

Is this the real me, the tiny little bit that didn't get damaged? Will she get stronger & be more predictable...more reliable to speak before I get to critical melt downs?
Has your 'voice' started small & gained ground? Or, is she totally random? Do you wait for or expect this (inner you) to speak?

 

[Chimera]

Feeling a bit tentative about posting, but also compelled...so I will.
This thread really helped me clarify some things that I had accepted as quite mundane and common to me..that might actually be a piece of something larger and more complex, something defined outside of my self...

I have a lot of "knowledge" that I shouldn't actually have, given my experiences..
Some examples; I can tell the year and make of a classic american car by the tailights..sorta odd and random but very rarely wrong.
I can also pinpoint issues in cars that aren't running right, somehow knowing what different parts of the car are called, it's by sound and feel too...I didn't have guidance in these areas, not that I can remember.
Answers to complicated questions that I have no education in. But it's only if I let loose of thinking about it...the answer immediately given.
I've had more than a few detailed prophetic dreams. Always sad ending, details present. I have a skill called "remote viewing", information plucked from a distance, past, sometimes future, present time is the best measure for me..(I have testing scores somewhere)
I used to call it "My Ancestors" speaking to me...now I feel it could be my highest intellect, supercomputing a seemingly random group of images, input and impressions...
I've spent most of my life in a distant place, my mind. Sleepwalking in the actual world...sort of a bipresence...I wonder if it is like @blackemerald1 asks, the real me, undamaged...
Maybe this sort of bipresence is a disassociative state? That I don't know.
I know it has always been there and usually close to the surface...making itself known especially in potentially dangerous situations. It is brilliant and analytical and compassionate. All things I would like to claim, but feel once removed from.

I wonder if it could just be a part of all the books I read, I devoured books like most kids did candy...maybe that. I have a very high iq, actually have 2 top end ranges..as most of the members also have (high iq's). So that lends credence to the supercomputing "Original Self"

Just thinking...

 

[Sideways]

@Chimera - there's actually not a whole lot of this 'structural dissociation' stuff that I understand and relate to. Except your post, putting it like that...

I'll get into a situation where I'm full flight explaining the way the first and second sand dunes of beaches along the east coast erode in a northwards direction because of ocean currents and, and, and...

I get the (totally reasonable) "what kind of freak knows that stuff" look, and it's like, pfft, I read some books about it when I was 15 (ie 20 years ago), no biggie. And it's totally useless info - doesn't help with anything, isn't relevant to anything...

And it wouldn't be a biggie, except it's not just that I have this arsenal of useless knowledge about beach erosion patterns on the east coast, it's all sorts of stuff. Mostly really useless stuff. But stuff all the same.

Weird supercomputer brain. Very very weird:bookworm::shifty:

 

[Sideways]

Argh!!

I didn't even live on the east coast when I was 15:eek::confused::alien:

 

[Chimera]

Omg @Ragdoll Circus you get it!!!
Someone gets it!!!