Sympathy - It Is Creeping Back Here

[No-Twitch-Tabitha]

Yes...pity and sympathy actually are insulting to the person in pain. It's patronizing and rather fake. Being sympathetic doesn't really require any action in actually helping comfort the person, and the way most people sympathize with someone is to pretend to agree with him which only serves to reinforce the pain instead of to help heal it.

Empathy and emotional support require hard work that most people just don't want to do either because they don't think they can or they simply don't care.

 

[Seychelle]

Empathy and emotional support require hard work that most people just don't want to do either because they don't think they can or they simply don't care.

I was wondering if it's possible for someone to describe a few examples of healthy empathy and emotional support? It's a difficult concept for me (in that receiving emotional support can be a bad trigger for me at times and I don't really know the difference between sympathy and healthy emotional support - I run away from all of it a lot of the time).

 

[Arcticboy1970]

The best analogy that I have heard for the difference between empathy and sympathy is as follows;

You are walking along one day and find a guy down in a big muddy ditch.
sympathy is getting there with him, empathy is saying dude I've been there.

sympathy is feelnig the same thing as someone

empathy is understanding the feeling, having experienced it

It is often hard for us, myself included, to tell someone that I think I understand what you are feelnig without it sounding like I'm crawling down in the ditch.

I can see there is soem wisdom in the policies here. Anthony and others have put alot of thoguht into them over the years. I used to be part of a supprot group that was in person in an office on a Cdn Military base. There were a lot of rules there too, again some wisdom was in them. Anyone ever been to AA, lots of rules there too. Again wisdom.

I recall a guy saying to me years ago that no one can MAKE me feel anything, that anything I feel comes from inside. I still haven't mastered it but I am much better now with looking at things around me and identiying what feelings things are elliciting in me and then trying to connect that with what is underlying.

That being said, a person needs to figure out what they feel before they can show empathy.

 

[anthony]

I recall a guy saying to me years ago that no one can MAKE me feel anything, that anything I feel comes from inside. I still haven't mastered it but I am much better now with looking at things around me and identiying what feelings things are elliciting in me and then trying to connect that with what is underlying.

Well said... and smart person to give you that advice. Well done on your own experiences by learning.

Sympathy has its places... sympathy works in some situations... hell, its warranted in some instances, however; when you have PTSD it is no longer warranted. Sympathy has a place upon immediate death of a loved one. If a person however lost a loved one and was still seeking that same sympathy a month on whilst drowning their sorrows still.... that is not sympathy that should be given, instead the person should now provide empathy that yes, they have lost a loved one, though life must also go on. They must take charge of themselves... this is the time sympathy would only continue enabling them, empathy would give them more a swift kick in the arse to continue grieving, though also take charge of their life.

Sympathy can continue in the death of a loved one in some aspects even, ie. the none willingness to begin dating. If they still love someone that died... who should really tell them to begin dating again when they love another so much they simply cannot bring themselves to it? Sympathy would still be warranted in such an occasion of an event, but not the event itself when the ongoing behaviour is destructive in nature to themselves and anyone else around them.

Sympathy truly does have a time and place.... but when PTSD has developed, guess what? You are now talking about past traumatic events, not current, not now... past events that a person is still wanting pity for. That is where sympathy no longer has a place and any person giving it at such a delayed time is only enabling the person to continue pitying themselves over what happened.

I hope one can see even further into why and where things have there place, though more why sympathy is often just not warranted here with past trauma. When someone has lost a loved one in the present and posted it here... that is sympathy and it is warranted at that time. If people continued to provide sympathy though as time went on vs. empathy, then they would only enable the person to be destructive. Again, that doesn't mean grieving must cease... just how it is done.

 

[YoungAndAngry]

I remember joining this forum when there was 100 members or less.
Basically it was a small group of us (5 or so) at that time.
All of us were new to the site (since it had only been created a few months prior) and became fast friends.
We discovered we weren't alone with all these crazy symptoms and others were going through the same things.
We weren't crazy, just dealing with PTSD.

We welcomed eachother, and once trust and friendship was gained, then we may have kicked their ass into gear.
BUT, we also supported and responded to eachother.
When one of us were having a particularly hard time, the others were there to give advice, a listening ear.

Reading this thread Anthony mentioned in one post that "when you have PTSD it (sympathy) is no longer warrented".
Why not? We are all human beings.
And we all have bad days.

Doesn't have to be PTSD related! Losing your job, pet dying, loss, etc. should warrent sympathy for anyone.

Pandora mentions that she had a huge pity party going when she joined.
and what happened? We welcomed her, listened to her story, and then supported her.
If she needed a kick in the arse, we may do that.
If she needed to know that there were people on this forum that cared about her, she had that.

Piglet, veiled, becvan, batgirl, marlene, goingonhope, reallydown and pandora... you were around at the begining.
Remember how we actually cared about eachother?

When I joined this forum Jan 2006, I needed support, advice, and to know someone gave a hoot about me.
Not tough love.

I've started to notice the difference long before "she-cat" was even a member!
So I took a break from the forum.
Sad to see it hasn't changed for the better.

I'm so dissapointed by many of the comments posted here.


p.s. - This is no attack on Anthony, he's running a great forum, it's just a difference of opinion.
I just wish you guys could see how it used to be.

 

[batgirl]

Hey YA!! OMG how are you?? I hope well.

Piglet, veiled, becvan, batgirl, marlene, goingonhope, reallydown and pandora... you were around at the begining. Remember how we actually cared about eachother?

I do remember, and since you brought it up, I will admit that I miss the way the forum was back then. I have very fond memories of it, though they are bittersweet because that part of my life is over now and I've moved on. I think part of the closeness we enjoyed was simply because it was such a small community. Its sad in a way but everything grows and changes I guess.

I'm not active on here anymore either. I've had a break of nearly a year, though I am checking in occasionally now that my boyfriend is a member here.

I will say though, in my case I didn't leave the forum because it had changed. I left for personal reasons. I had dealt with the majority of my trauma and was getting better, but I had developed an online addiction. I wasn't coming here for support or help anymore, but compulsively. I was also struggling with severe guilt, because I desperately wanted to give back by helping newcomers here, but everytime I tried it to help I made myself ill. The forum therefore became counterproductive to my recovery.

I'm now concentrating on face to face contact with family and friends, including others with PTSD, rather than online support. I spent 5 years alone, hiding in my room behind a computer screen... I don't want that for myself anymore. I'm not saying that's what others do here but it was definitely what I did. For me its just a better decision overall, to have mostly face to face relationships and strictly limit my computer time.

Wow just remembering... I was so ill when I was active on here, my PTSD was in full swing... my cancer was active then also and I was a mess... the chemotherapy screwed with my brain and I don't even remember half of what I said and did!! :p But people were here for me, definitely. They supported me, they were understanding and didn't condemn me. The forum was my lifeline back then, a family of sorts. I don't know if I ever thanked everyone, but I did appreciate you all.

Take care YA, it was so nice hearing from you!

 

[Mercy]

Symapthy tells me that what happened was wrong. I need and still need to be told that.

Empathy is kind and generous wisdom from many people here. I need that too.

There has been ENOUGH toughness and I have toughed it up TOO many times. For me, there is no room for tough love. Flashbacks intrude into the present and have to be dealt with in the present. But they are so very real and freshly retraumatizing that sympathy, the understanding that in a flashback the harm has just been done (even if it has happened before) is life-giving good and good to give to others. Maybe it can be a crutch for some, But I would rather err on the side of mercy.

We need both empathy from those who "get it" and have been there to encourage us, and sympathy when we are drowning in pain.

 

[cragger65]

I have been struggling with this issue for some time now. I realize only in hind-sight this is a big part of the relationship I have developed with my nuero-psych. I hurt, she sympathizes - I'm as guilty as sin.

But I've made the choice to see a different therapist once a week. I still keep in touch with the nuero-psych once a month, but this is far enough apart to ween me off the wagon, I think/hope. Therapy seems to be more positive and constructive in general now.

I've still got a ways to go. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[anthony]

Good to hear from you YA... glad that you are still doing ok.

 

[Auroch]

I don't know - For me sympathy always comes with a condescending attitude. I would rather have people just try to comprehend. Don't tell me you are sorry for me. I have gotten that enough. I'd rather hear someone say they are mad for me, even if I'm not mad anymore, because they really get it.

I don't think sympathy is counterproductive, but it has a time and a place and every individual needs a varying amount - something that is hard to judge over this sort of communication. Too much sympathy for someone like myself will chase me off in a rush.

 

[cragger65]

After reading more of the other posts, I feel like I could swing completely the other way (no, not that way ;). To accurately assess my own experience, I would put it thus:

Sympathy opened my heart. It told me that people understood, and actually gave a rat's-ass. Otherwise, I would have left after my first visit.

Empathy spoke to my heart. I figured, if these people have gone through what I have gone through, and they find that "X" works, then I can feel confident in taking their advice (with due consideration, of course). But also, that it was coming from a good place - their intention was obviously to help. Without a smidge of sympathy in there, would I have felt safe enough to open up? Hmmm...

I realized after a coffee and a smoke that my first knee jerk was largely my "Bad Catholic boy caught with his hand in the forbidden cookie jar" reaction.

Not to back pedal completely on my original intent, I have made that decision with seeing nuero-psych less, because we got stuck in the sympathy phase, and that is not healthy. But sympathy was the door opener to my trust, which was utterly shattered, never mind fragile.

My opinion is they are both necessary, depending on what day/hour/stage it is.

 

[becvan]

Piglet, veiled, becvan, batgirl, marlene, goingonhope, reallydown and pandora... you were around at the begining.
Remember how we actually cared about eachother?

I just wish you guys could see how it used to be.

Great to see you Y&A! :Hug_emoticon:

I wish they could see it too. It used to make me sad, but all good things come to an end. :rolleyes: It's changed here and its more for the new people now and it's a different place with different people. I don't think it's bad but it's different. I also think it was unavoidable. Once it got this big it had to change in order to survive.

Me? I'm just an old timer that doesn't have much to say anymore. Most of my healing journey is now done in the here and now in real life and it's not for sharing online any further.

So great to see you Y&A.. just so great!!!

bec