The advantages/disadvantages of service dogs.

[lostforgottensoul]

My question is about dogs for people that have PTSD or anxiety. Are they allowed in food stores?

I believe they are. Like for me i am terrified of people and so that would help me.

@desiderata310 might be able to answer that question better then me though.

Sorry to tag you. I just know you are working hard in this area.

 

[Deleted member 541]

@lostforgottensoul everywhere I have looked online, it talks about flying with one and housing, but that's it. It says nothing about having a dog in stores or businesses.

Then there have been the ones that put the freaking dog in the cart. EXCUSE ME, but our food goes in that cart. YUCK!!!!

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Then there have been the ones that put the freaking dog in the cart. EXCUSE ME, but our food goes in that cart. YUCK!!!!

Oh yeah, that I see a lot. Small dogs that AREN'T service dogs. No vest. No training. Have no idea why they let people do that. Geeze!

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Oh @She Cat, there was a small dog, no vest or anything, at my doctor's office. A doctor's office! Where everything is sanatized. That was the worst.

Why do small dog owners get away with that shit and us large dog owners have to go through the wringer?

 

[desiderata310]

I believe they are. Like for me i am terrified of people and so that would help me.

@desiderata310 might be able to answer that question better then me though.

Sorry to tag you. I just know you are working hard in this area.

Full service dogs are allowed anywhere that the general public is allowed. So, yes, they would be allowed in a grocery store, a restaurant, etc.
They would NOT be allowed back in the kitchen area of a restaurant (but then neither is the general public) or some place like the back counter where meat is being cut. But then again, neither is the general public.

A service dog is considered a durable medical device. (like a wheelchair) so think of it as a wheelchair with four paws and fur.

 

[joeylittle]

That's talking about needing a certifcate, doctor's paperwork, vest etc. And in that thread those with legal ESAs talk about having the vest and certificate and card.

So im wondering how there's no training or certifcate or paperwork or vest required. I'm confused.

I can speak to one thing - to fly most US airlines with an ESA, you need a letter from your psych doctor, generally dated for within the 2 weeks before you fly, validating your need for support. Some airlines require health paperwork for the animal; nothing re: specialized training, just vaccination, etc.

 

[desiderata310]

I just get really irritated when I'm standing at the meat counter and someone comes up along side of me with this freaking huge dog that is drooling all over the place, or shedding all over the bread packages.

OK I just read the rest of this. Sorry. A service dog should be well groomed, not (noticeably) smelly. It should not be bouncing around smelling things in the store. etc. They should be under the control of their handler. (no barking, not pulling unless the person is in a wheelchair)

Granted, I've walked into the store once or twice when Charlie wasn't at his best (in need of a bath) but that was also because I was struggling to get my shit together and deal with my own depression. I probably needed a bath that day as well. I try not to let that happen as it give the service handler community a bad name.

Charlie is owner trained (in other words I've done the lion's share of training) He still has a few bad habits that I am CONSTANTLY correcting so I keep a halti on him to redirect his head quickly when he starts trying to smell things. He never even gets the chance. We've been slowly transitioning to just a flat collar so there are still times I have to correct him.

I hesitate to say anyone you see is with a fake service dog but they ARE out there and they are the people that piss me off the most.

 

[Deleted member 541]

@desiderata310 Excuse my ignorance with all of this... I know that a seeing eye dog, and dogs for people with sight, hearing and physical disabilities are called SERVICE dogs.... Are dogs for people with emotional disabilities also called service dogs too???.

I "think" in Massachusetts (if I'm reading the laws correctly) a service dog can enter any place, but therapy dogs can not and I believe dogs for people with emotional issues can not go into food stores. I could be wrong on reading the laws.

I just hate it when I go into a store with food, and people come traipsing in with their dogs, some even put them in the shopping carts. Just pisses me off to no end. Just the other day, I went into a convience store and there is this severely overweight little dog waddling around. I asked who's dog it was and some girl said, "mine". I told her it was illegal to have it in the store. She called me a cow and she must have weighed in over 200lbs and the dog was a Doxen that must have weighed at least 35lbs. NO LEASH! NO VEST! Just wandering around like it owned the place. They serve food, cold cuts etc... just irks me!!!!

 

[mudbug]

Just weighing in... From what I remember, service dogs are not required to wear identifying information (though I believe the owner must be able to prove they are a service animal if needed with like paperwork or a card or something), so just because a dog doesn't have a vest doesn't mean a dog isn't a service animal. Some owners may not want to advertise that they have a service dog and that is their right.

I mean if there is just a dog wandering around or sitting in a cart it probably isn't one and it is probably just a situation of a person bringing their dog somewhere they shouldn't, but it is best to not assume. Also remember, just because you don't think dogs should be in the store doesn't mean the store itself doesn't allow animals. There are a surprising number of animal friendly stores and restaurants that specifically state animals are allowed. I'd say stores that specifically ban animals are the minority. For all you know, that person could have very well called ahead and asked if the store was animal friendly. (I mean, they probably didn't, but who knows.)

Not that I've done this myself, I have cats and I don't think they'd enjoy this lol. But I personally don't care if people bring their dogs somewhere as long as they behave and are leashed. Honestly I'm usually more annoyed with people's bratty kids acting up in stores, wandering off, touching stuff with their germy hands, sometimes just straight up ripping into food and leaving it in the middle of the aisle... but hey, everyone is different.

Also I think the difference between a service dog and therapy animal is a service dog is trained to perform tasks, so someone with PTSD could have use for a service dog. A service dog might be able to fetch meds and water from the fridge for their PTSD owner who can't make themselves get out of bed, or might make a space for their owner if another person is getting into their owner's space or like, if their owner is about to have a panic attack they will take measures to comfort/ground them such as by asking for petting or climbing in their lap etc. There are even more that I can't think of, some very specific. I think some dogs are even capable of dialing an emergency number on a special kind of phone if say their owner attempted suicide and was unresponsive.

On the other hand, a therapy dog doesn't have any real training for these specialized tasks, they are just there to comfort their owners. Which is also an important job.

Though I might be wrong about this stuff. I don't have one. I've looked into it, but living near a military base every single organization in the area is aimed at helping vets. But I doubt I'd be able to afford it anyways.

 

[desiderata310]

Excuse my ignorance with all of this...

I understand your confusion. And this is something I grapple with daily and beat myself up over. There IS an emotional component to PTSD. That's obvious and hard to ignore and that's what people most often recognize. But there is a component for me and for some others that is less emotional in nature and more physical response. This isn't me trying to make myself 'feel better' about this. It's actually the thing that my therapist keeps drilling into my head when I have flashbacks : this is not something I have any control over. This is my brain being hijacked.

The ADA defines a person with a disability as a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activity.

I actually wrote more extensively about what my SD does for me in a different thread. He isn't there just to "make me feel good and be cute" That kind of IS what an Emotional Support Animal does. The difference is the training. An ESA does NOT HAVE ANY TRAINING. They are just there to be a companion. They also do not have ANY PUBLIC ACCESS. Believe me when I say that even learning to very simply stand in a position and lean against me on cue (and more often without my prompting but because he knows that I am anxious) take a ton of training.

1. grounding work (providing me with what people like to call deep pressure therapy. It's hard to stay dissociated with a 90 lb dog on your lap or leaning against you)
2. Blocking (i.e. he will stand between me and other people.) It helps keeps me from having a panic attack standing in line, say, at the grocery store. Before I would wind up running out and abandoning my shopping because I couldn't deal with people being behind me. He pretty much does this automatically when I start getting anxious. He will stand behind me and lean in on my legs.
3. He also performs something called "cover me" which is when he will be a presence and behave as though he is watching my back while I can't watch it. He is NOT trained to attack. He is there as a deterrent. I KNOW this but there person I fear might be behind me does NOT know this.

We are working on 'who's there',(for reality checking) and searching the house (though he does this quite well already) since I have serious problems entering my home and needing to check every nook and cranny to ensure it is safe.

Finally, we are working on him recognizing and breaking flashbacks/really bad dissociative spells. He does this by recognizing the change that comes along with a flashback and then disrupting it by vigorously licking my hands/face etc to get my attention. That tactile feedback breaks through that.

It's been a game changer for me.

There are other things that a PTSD dog can do but these are specifics that MY dog does for me.

This is a useful link to help explain more.
http://www.iaadp.org/psd_tasks.html

This is actually a great list of possible tasks that SD's can do for someone. Many of them don't make sense for me. For instance, I don't NEED a dog to remind me to take pills. I don't NEED a dog to fetch water so I don't train those tasks but for someone else, that would make perfect sense.

I'm not sure if any of that helps you understand what the difference is or not. My service dog mitigates my disability. Yes, it's taken quite a while to use that word with any ... comfort. I do not look disabled. Some part of my brain however IS.

 

[Deleted member 541]

@desiderata310 Thanks so much for taking the time to explain everything and for the link. I appreciate it.

I too, have a hard time in line in a store when people crowd me. I've actually asked people to please move back. LOL!!!!! They kind of look at me like , OMG she's nuts. Uhhhh. YES, I am!!!! I've never been one to NOT use my words or mouth when needed.

I've also left carts full of stuff in a store and walked out, just because I became overwhelmed and just couldn't focus, or finish or whatever. I get it.

It's just the people that bring there dogs in food store, JUST BECAUSE. Those people really piss me off.

Thanks again.

 

[desiderata310]

It's just the people that bring there dogs in food store, JUST BECAUSE. Those people really piss me off.

Those people piss me off, too. They give those with legit SD's a bad name.
If all you've got is an ESA, use that dog appropriately, please! He doesn't belong in Starbucks or in your grocery cart. It's not cute, it's actually harmful.