This core belief: i am incapable at leading.

[Justmehere]

I am leading a volunteer team for an agency offline. One volunteer is driving me up the wall!

They are in a dual role, in a mentor role and also in a team member role that I essentially supervise and lead. Weird set up, but great organization, and the check and balance is that I have the power to end her coach role if it’s too much and/or she drops the (more important) other role. Volunteers give a lot but they also get credit back for themselves for their own needs.

I won’t be any more specific about the organization than that.

This one volunteer is getting to me. Her version of mentoring is to critique everyone to death. I set gentle but clear boundaries on this with co-volunteers of hers and she’s made changes. I was clear people were getting upset and embarrassed because she would publicly tell them they were wrong. She recognized she was pushing too much. Kudos to her. I told her to please back off on so much negative critiquing with me, it’s not helping at this volume, and it’s only been a short time I’ve been in this capacity... give me a chance here... I gave her info from the organization to help her learn how to mentor. We met over coffee and it went well at the time. (I spoke with my own superior and this was the way they said to go. Actually, they told me to also consider canceling her mentor role, but wanted me to make the decision on that if/when that should happen.)

Then she pushed and pushed boundaries I was clear about until I said enough.

It was maddening because one day she would say do this, next day, do the exact opposite, third day, “I’ll just do it myself” to something that wasn’t hers to do, and that I had put 7 hours of work into, and she wanted to toss it all out and just do herself. Didn’t even explain to me why or what the problem was. Then came several emails with long lists of complaints and that no one was doing what she said needs to happen as a mentor and etc. It’s just not true!

That’s when I said stop. I told her from now one, 1 email per week as the mentor and giving what she even calls “unasked for advice.” The other role comes first too. (She wasn’t doing her assigned tasks in her program.) No more texting me (the texts were all negative.) I also told her the level of constant complaining needs to shift. And if there needs to be more communication, let’s schedule a time face to face. (She’s less harsh face to face.)

24 hours later, and email from her with next steps with the non-mentor role (good) and then calling me a controlling person who just likes to control. Then she said “I know how to do all of this for everyone and what everyone needs.”

Great. So I have a know-it-all on my hands too.

(I’ve been called many things in my life but controlling has not been one of them.... in fact others told me recently I needed to act/with greater authority and boundaries and control. :/ I’m getting nervous doing that because she’s getting to me.)

I called and left her a message to say I needed to talk with her after the next in person meeting with the whole team and I asked if she was able to do that. I didn’t say anything else.

That wasn’t a smart call, because I’m triggered. I was calm, but still triggered.

I figured that out after the call that I’m triggered, and feel terrible. I’ve become alright (always room to improve tons at not acting on triggered feelings and thoughts in work/professional relationships even when supervising cranky or stressed people.

This is the first time in a long time I’ve been straight up pissed in this type of setting. I’m not sure why she’s getting under my skin, except the double bind of her demanded suggestions... that’s getting to me.

I’m considering canceling her mentor role, but that would be potentially a hard thing for the team to deal with.

This team is facing something soon that’s going to be a challenge, they are all committed, get credit and certifications on some of this work, but also volunteers.

I need them to stay united, and I told them all, it’s progress over perfection, and relationships matter more than being right all the time, and mistakes will be chances to learn...

Because most of them have needed to hear that right now really badly. They are all a little nervous about the challenge ahead. F*ck, I’m nervous but everyone is on board about the challenge...

Except this coach who I think might not be. I don’t know.

I need advice. I’m not sure how to get my feet under me with her. With all of this. If I cancel her coach role, she’ll still be in the other limited role. I want to give her at least another 3 week’s to make more progress away from this constant critiquing and more into effective coaching with everyone. She’s got the passion and she does know a bit.

How do I do this? I feel so insecure at the moment. My distorted core belief: I’m a big fat fake when it comes to leading. I don’t know what I’m doing or how and I don’t deserve responsibility.

I gotta to get that out of my head and respond to the situation and what I value and what everyone needs.

 

[ms spock]

Can you lay it on the line with her?

Can you say "Do you want another three weeks to see if you can stop being so negative and draining in your critiques?" or are you needing to be released from this role?

Say to her that you can see she has a lot of skills and insight to offer, but a rather unfortunate way of doing that at times. Whatever points you make then recap them in an email with a BCC to your superior. Let her know that she way she is interacting and giviing so much negative feedback is effecting the morale and the interactions of the team, that you are borderline on keeping her on in that role, but you want to hear what she has to say?

Get her to write down what she is hearing you are saying to her, so you can be very clear on what is going on. Say you really want to know she heard that she has the passion, and some great skill sets to offer as a coach, but where she needs to improve is not giving such a high volume of criticism that is so negative an counterproductive.

Say to her that when you have put 7 hours into a project that it is not appropriate for her to just do it again to her own specs, unless she has clearly outlined what the problems that she thinks are happening in that project are.

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You have this! You need to back yourself! You can do it. You are doing it! I think you deep down know that she needs to go, and as you not backing yourself you are slipping into corrosive self doubt. Can her now. She is being counterproductive. She is not doing her other role probably so she is not managing. She being a know it all, and unwise and tactless enough to say it - well she is not strategically wise.
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Having said that I think just can it now. She is not sticking to boundaries. Your superiors are letting you make the call but have hinted at the direction they want it to go - you ending it. Do it now. Thank her for all the great things that she did but say as she wasn't managing her other role as it needs to be handled. That you don't think she is quite ready for a coaching role as of yet, but that she definitely has potential.

There will be backlack, you will struggle with the corrosive self doubt, and then you will move on to the big oncoming challenging. If you have a big challenge coming, then you don't need someone who is not up to it, and who can be too critical. Removing her will probably take the stress off the team, her and your self.

Simplify as much as possible.

Please ignore if not useful.

 

[joeylittle]

Sometimes this can help - don't put any focus on 'leading'; just put focus on solving the problems that need solving. Worrying about being a good leader (or any kind of leader) on top of actually doing the management that goes into it, can sometimes be unnecessary pressure. You'll be leading by virtue of taking responsibility for solving problems.

Two things that jump out at me - she's not busy enough with her own role (separate from the mentoring), and she's got a high level of anxiety.

Can you increase her responsibilities in her own area? Bonus points if the stuff you give her to do is actually useful, but it doesn't necessarily need to be.

And - try empathy. Instead of giving her more boundaries, see if you can draw her out a little, let her talk, try and suss out what kind of logic she will understand for why it's not beneficial for her to overstep her roles. She's turning it into you v. her, but really, this needs to turn back into "how to be a cog in the wheel 101" . It could be especially useful to get her talking about how things were for her, in the early days of working with the organization. She'll likely have a number of stories about messing up. You can validate her experience of learning from her mistakes, and then remind her about the learning from mistakes concept anytime in the future when she tries to interject into your (or someone else's) flow.

Any of this sounding like it might be worth a shot?

ETA: Your leadership style isn't going to be a cookie-cutter copy of anyone else's. I think it could be worth thinking about people that you've worked under, that you admire, and list a few traits of theirs that you really found effective for you. Another way to think of that is, gear your leadership towards the kind of leadership that you thrive under. Ultimately, groups will absorb the behavior your are instilling in them, by virtue of the patterns you establish.

 

[jaccat]

Can you consider the next few weeks as a final warning? Tell her so, that she has that time to make changes and if she doesn't the coaching role will be taken from her? That's something we do with work if someone's struggling, for whatever reason- give regular reviews with clear goals at the end.

What about suggesting she gets feedback from other members of the team? Might not be appropriate, but if she were to ask them how they see her, in a structured way- positives and concerns, maybe that would help. Depends on your set up though.

 

[Deleted member 541]

@Justmehere Just wanted to give you lots and lots of credit. Don’t know how you do it, and keep your sanity. I’d be bald by now or in the psych unit.

It sounds to me like she has a resource of energy that never runs dry, and her mind is in over drive 24/7, maybe her body too.

Is it possible that the controlling remark is just her and she is projecting what she is??? Is she controlling??? It sounds it from what you’ve written. She sounds like the type that thinks they know the answer for everything, how to do it, when to do it and no one else can do it better that she can.

Yup, I’d be bald. Kudos to you for putting up with this. Keep grounded, coping skills, and lots and lots of patience.....

 

[shimmerz]

Her version of mentoring is to critique everyone to death.

That's not actually mentoring, is it? I mean, I get that she is passionate and all, but perhaps she needs to sit and reflect on what mentoring is exactly.

I am not certain I understand why you aren't acting on this right away? Not a critique, but rather wondering what she has that you need for you to have to put up with this. In her non coaching role, if you were to decide this is too much, would she have the ability to be pushing her ideas etc on the people around her still?

I’m not sure why she’s getting under my skin, except the double bind of her demanded suggestions... that’s getting to me.

Double binds lead nowhere but to dysfunction in my opinion.

 

[Justmehere]

There will be backlack, you will struggle with the corrosive self doubt, and then you will move on to the big oncoming challenging. If you have a big challenge coming, then you don't need someone who is not up to it, and who can be too critical. Removing her will probably take the stress off the team, her and your self.

I can only remove her from being the mentor to the group. She would still be on as a team member. (There is no cause to remove her from this volunteer team entirely.)

Simplify as much as possible.

Good reminder. I tend to complicate EVERYTHING.... lol.

Sometimes this can help - don't put any focus on 'leading'; just put focus on solving the problems that need solving.

This advice helped me keep my sanity this week. I took all the pressure off on "leading" and went back to seeing it as someone who is solving the problems. It's been a really hard week, I've been super sick through all of this, and now managing it via email and phone. I found people to take over some of my responsibilities for the short term while I get better, and instead of getting down on myself for failing, as I typically do (yes, even when I'm out sick), I felt glad I solved a problem. It's been even more delightful to help guide the team members stepping into my role a bit. It's just fun for me to see them take on new challenges and learn.

ETA: Your leadership style isn't going to be a cookie-cutter copy of anyone else's. I think it could be worth thinking about people that you've worked under, that you admire, and list a few traits of theirs that you really found effective for you.

I keep thinking about one boss that I worked for that was so good. It was hard job with intense personalities and lots of details and deadlines, and everyone was there because of the cause, not the pay. I remember almost mimicking him in a crisis, only because I had no other idea how to manage the team under me when the crisis hit. He was thoughtful, listened, but also held limits. My team told me they stayed cheerful through the crisis because I did.

I agree about the anxiety fueled nature of her behavior. I've tried to give her a greater workload. No avail. She dropped the ball more and gets very "stuck" on some topics and just does not let them go. I then figured out I needed to change the type of work she was doing, let her lean into her strengths, and little out of my hair, a little more. She's running with it over the past three days - and it's been helpful to everyone.

When it's come to her stubbornness and negativity with me, I've tried to listen and see if she could help me understand her thinking and handle it logically.... but that didn't work. She did finally start to listen about others when I told her, "so and so left that meeting feeling really embarrassed and doesn't want to come back now." That was a big wake up call, and to her credit, she didn't make that mistake again, and she made a public apology to that person. She's got it in her to be very humble. But for whatever reason, she's just trying to make it personal with me when it's not.

What about suggesting she gets feedback from other members of the team? Might not be appropriate, but if she were to ask them how they see her, in a structured way- positives and concerns, maybe that would help. Depends on your set up though.

This might be doable in this group... not sure... but it's an interesting idea. I especially like it if it's her asking them for feedback. I think she might be up for it.

Is it possible that the controlling remark is just her and she is projecting what she is??? Is she controlling??? It sounds it from what you’ve written.

YES. She is actually pretty controlling. She even said so once...

I am not certain I understand why you aren't acting on this right away? Not a critique, but rather wondering what she has that you need for you to have to put up with this. In her non coaching role, if you were to decide this is too much, would she have the ability to be pushing her ideas etc on the people around her still?

This is what I have been thinking through. She ironically emailed me after I posted this thread a dramatic email to complain I don't listen enough to her, and to tell me she is backing up on the mentoring role for a couple of weeks on her own, only telling me, not anyone else. (huh?) She's been pretty much just as pushy with me. I held the boundaries I set, and it's kept me from reacting... and it seems to help her think it through more.

I tried to stop "leading" and just help people solve problems and even step in for me while sick... and this all improved a bit, and I was able to let go of feeling like such an imposter with leading so much.

She also told me she is really going to work on "spreading kindness everywhere" because of "your style of leadership." She talked about ways "we" could do that. She has been more kind to others. She's also been on task more.

I dunno what to make of it....

Can I call it a victory? Of a battle I didn't even know I was in. :confused:

Thanks all for the feedback. You helped me get my feet under me during a really rough week and not fall apart over this.

 

[shimmerz]

You helped me get my feet under me during a really rough week and not fall apart over this.

Very happy to hear that!