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News Violence Against Women Ad - Australia

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No, it matter's not in the slightest whether you are any creed.

What matters is educating, bringing violence out of the shadows & raising it's profile to everyone. How to stop the stigma associated with violence in all parts of our Nation.

Media, mandatory reporting, appropriate sentencing & real & effective rehabilitation of predators. And a Judicial system who will protect the vulnerable from ongoing violence by locking up recidivist predators. Not giving predators numerous discounts for pleading guilty & getting ridiculous sentences for committing damage to their victims over & over.

What message does this send to others who are tempted to commit violence?

Violence is never going to be fully addressed until victims are believed & given a voice.

I am so sick of this issue being side tracked. But it is a complicated issue. It's a change that must begin at home. Yes with children & through our education system and into our work place & all the little but important messages that reinforce the mind's of our present & future generations.

As for the Ad., at least someone is doing something. I don't care who paid for it. If it make's just one less victim or reaches one young girl or boy, to stop accepting the insidious growth of accepting any type of violence. Then it's done it's job.

I don't see the add as dodgy. It's a start & it make's people think.

That is important.
 
You were the one making an argument based on your personal characteristics (ie: not being female but having been bullied as a child).

You were also the one who dismissed the realities of discrimination against women as
social justice warrior guilt and division mongering
.

Its impossible to discuss social power imbalances without acknowledging your own position within that society. Its the very nature of the dominant paradigm to be the invisible lens. As @EveHarrington said #blacklivesmatter does not suggest that white lives don't. That white lives matter is the dominant paradigm therefore #blacklivesmatter has a hidden "(as well)". In much the same way that "feminist jurisprudence" exists as a field because "jurisprudence" already has a hidden "(white male)" in front of the word.

And that, I guess, is why @Anarchy's whinge about the ad has irritated me so much. @Anarchy - you haven't responded to the fact that there have also been tax payer funded campaigns on bullying in schools and male on male alcohol affected violence. You've just persisted with your gripe that this particular campaign doesn't include your personal experience. Well, honey, cry me a river because I'm too busy earning more than you, doing less housework than you, "babysitting" my own children, being promoted because I played rugby for the same school as the boss, spreading my knees apart on public transport, walking around the town at night on my own, never worrying that smiling at a stranger might be taken as some kind of invitation, never carrying my keys in my hand when walking to my car in the carpark in case I'm attacked... oh wait! That's not me! That's men.
 
I'll deal with these two, then hopefully we can leave them aside

State as a monopolist of violence
Now, if the curlicue we need to go through here is the anarchists' lens - narrow lens - that the government is pro-violence...etc...that's a big loop-de-loop. But, more relevantly: that's an incredibly narrow lens, and utterly biased by your politics. Who should have funded it? Nobody? That's not really what you are arguing, I don't think - but you are arguing that government shouldn't really exist in the first place. Way off-course for this debate, as a legit point.

The position that I stated is actually the most widely accepted definition of a state, and the form in which I generally use it, it's very much drawing on Max Weber, the founder of modern sociology's definition.
The most commonly used definition is Max Weber's,Link Removed which describes the state as a compulsory political organization with a centralized government that maintains a monopoly of the legitimate use of force within a certain territory.Link Removed Link Removed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_(polity)

Weber's view was neither new nor unusual, just of the top of my head, it was the position of the Greek and later Roman Stoic philosophers, most notably Cicero.
It was the position of St Augustine of Hippo, and from him, it became the basic position of the Church of Rome
Saint Augustine—The City of God
Book IV, Chapter 4.
How Like Kingdoms Without Justice are to Robberies.

Justice being taken away, then, what are kingdoms but great robberies? For what are robberies themselves, but little kingdoms? The band itself is made up of men; it is ruled by the authority of a prince, it is knit together by the pact of the confederacy; the booty is divided by the law agreed on. If, by the admittance of abandoned men, this evil increases to such a degree that it holds places, fixes abodes, takes possession of cities, and subdues peoples, it assumes the more plainly the name of a kingdom, because the reality is now manifestly conferred on it, not by the removal of covetousness, but by the addition of impunity.

Indeed, that was an apt and true reply which was given to Alexander the Great by a pirate who had been seized. For when that king had asked the man what he meant by keeping hostile possession of the sea, he answered with bold pride, What you mean by seizing the whole earth; but because I do it with a petty ship, I am called a robber, while you who does it with a great fleet are styled emperor.
In the bottom paragraph, Augustine is quoting Cicero.

It was also the position of Thomas Hobbes, author of "Leviathan", which sets out the usual present day mainstream justification for the state; that without a monopolist of violence, we would be reduced to living in a state of nature, consisting of a war of all upon all, in which human life would be nasty, short and brutish...

State having a vested interest in facilitating and encouraging conflicts
A fairly non controversial classical liberal (it doesn't need to be anarchist) take on the Hobbesian myth, is that while the absence of a state would not magically end all violence*, rulers tend to facilitate conflicts in order to then present and justify themselves as the solution and the peace maker

Obviously not with reference to Thomas Hobbes (1588 - 1679), but the idea of divide and rule has been explicit in politics since probably three or four hundred years BC (it's frequently attributed to Philip II of Macedonia), and it makes notable appearances in 16th century essays on statecraft, such as Machiavelli's "The Prince" and de la Boetie's "Discourse on Voluntary Servitude"

Clearly, as ordinary peons, we are not party to the hushed conversations and schemes of the present day power brokers, however we do get occasional indications of how they are likely to be operating. Likewise for the other groups seeking to gain the privileges that come with gaining control of the machinery of state.

In the recent past, Kozac's "And Not a Shot Is Fired" Dead Link Removed is a manual for stirring dissent in order to subvert a democracy into a socialist one party state - and is based on the (successful from the author's point of view) subversion of post WWII democracy in Czechoslovakia into socialist one party rule. There are also similar descriptions from former KGB agent and defector Yuri Bezmenov / Thomas Schumann

(there should be some interviews with Bezmenov/Shumann up on youtube - originally filmed by the John Birch society (the Birchers were one of the groups purged from the American conservative movement during the takeover by the Buckley-ite pro war and pro foreign military intervention neo-cons. Groups opposed to foreign wars being purged from a major political party is itself a telling indictment of the nature of political power)

Both of Kozac and Shumann/Bezmenov, describe facilitating a "Strategy of Tension" in which as many conflicts and arguments as possible can be facilitated and stirred within a society - in order that the population will not only wish for protection, they'll actually be (made to appear to be) willing to surrender significant freedoms to (unscrupulous) rulers in the hope of achieving that peace.

Is violence against females the subject of stirring and facilitation as part of a "Strategy of tension"?

From the point of view of social marxists and social justice warriors, I have little doubt that it is - and I think that is spilling into the discussion here

From actors within the state(s)? as far as America and Britain are concerned, yes, and I can pull out some examples over the coming days and weeks if I need to.

Oz? I don't know, I'm not immersed in the Aussie mainstream buzz, but I would strongly suspect that even if it is not an implicit policy of a party or a department, there will be individuals in positions of influence pushing that agenda.

___________________________________
* I guess that we can probably find utopian fantasists in any movement. as far as I'm concerned, an Anarchist society would still have to deal with violent people and criminal acts, and I take Gustave de Molinari's position that provision of security defense and court services are like any other good or service, and ceteris paribus, are provided in better quality, larger quantity and cheaper by competing providers on an unhampered market, than they are by monopoly provision.

Under such an anarchic system, ANY initiation of force (or theft or fraud) would be illegal - proportionate defence against such acts would probably be legal, though different communities would almost certainly adopt different positions on what constituted proportionate defence and under what circumstances.

Under the present archist system (using Weber's definition of the state) initiation of force (and theft, and fraud) is legal, so long as it is done in the name of the state. Defending against such acts is usually illegal.

Probably my favourite utopian is French utopian socialist, Charles Fourier, who describes his socialist utopia in loving detail, including the death of the present moon, the emergence of new types of animals which are the opposite of present day animals (the anti lion and anti whale are examples) and the sea ceasing to be salty and turning instead into lemonade.
 
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When you refer to "You". Do you mean me?
I'm reasonably sure that Sighs is referring to me,
I'll be replying to Sighs' post later on, to get clarification of exactly what their position is regarding whether violence is a single problem or whether violence against females is a separate problem to other instances of violence

whether the difference between aggregated male and aggregated female earnings is part of the same problem or part of a different problem to violence against females (if it's seperate, we can hopefully drop the pay gap question).

and few other clarifications, like whether perpetration of violence is an individual act or a collective act by an aggregated male whole

It'll take a while to type out, so, Sighs, if you read this, please don't respond quite yet, as the final questions are likely to be different when I've had time to think and type and do some more chores.
 
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The position that I stated is actually the most widely accepted definition of a state, and the form in which I generally use it, it's very much drawing on Max Weber, the founder of modern sociology's definition.
@Anarchy - there's no way I can actually debate this with you; you are too good at it, and I'm just not.

But my opinion still stands - you made this statement:
the funder of the advert claims to have a right to legitimately inflict aggressive violence
Which boils down to this:
Oz? I don't know, I'm not immersed in the Aussie mainstream buzz, but I would strongly suspect that even if it is not an implicit policy of a party or a department, there will be individuals in positions of influence pushing [the strategy of tension] agenda.
You made a statement about the funder of the ad and positioned it as fact - when in actuality, it's a theoretical supposition.

You can supply all the theory you wish - it's still just your opinion. So, no, the funder of the ad does not claim to have a right to legitimately inflict aggressive violence. I have a massive amount of respect for you - but you cannot back up an opinion stated as fact with a theory.

At best, I believe that this is what one can say on the matter: The funder of the ad, which is a Government, has demonstrated over time its propensity to use violence - 'force' - as part of it's operational strategy. Whether or not this is specifically the case in the funding of this specific ad, remains unknown - though, you suppose it is likely.

(You'd surely use better grammar and more economical language ;))

I'm honestly interested in your thoughts on this:
This ad is violence against women. I'm curious - are we debating that there should be an ad on violence against men, or violence against male children/adolescents? I'm thinking the latter would actually be the appropriate counterpoint - true or false?

Because, from your personal perspective, I think you'd suggest the latter, but I'm not sure. In other words: lets assume the ad exists, because - it exists.

If it were to have a more balanced counterpoint - a companion piece - what would that additional ad consist of?

@Sighs - you've been going down the road of personal attack against @Anarchy. You aren't there yet, but please - both of you (since you indicate you plan to respond, anarchy) - keep the debate grounded in the topic, not in the person.
 
would it have detracted from the message or contradicted it to say "let's stop all aggressive violence" as opposed to what it did state which was the narrower sense of violence against females

Yes, it would detract from the message, because the message is about violence against women. Not sure where the disconnect is happening, here.
 
I find this overly pedantic let's see how many women actually get killed per year! nonsense to be equally as invalidating. While I recognize that you believe you are sticking to the facts, how it actually comes off is that you do not believe that violence against women is prevalent or important to discuss on its own merits. It's hard for me to get a clear grasp as to what your intent here is, @Anarchy. I like you and respect you but this whole debate is coming off rather bizarrely. It would be like if you made a topic titled "I like dogs" and I came in and started saying, "well what about cats?! Why don't you like cats?!!!"
 
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@Anarchy, I see the adds for all the right reasons.

Just today we lost yet another family, 2 children & their mother allegedly murdered by their father & husband. (I say allegedly only because the media & our law's prohibit reporting guilt till conviction is pronounced).

Please @Anarchy whilst you obviously have strong views & believe fervently in all the sociological views of various theories. I just think it is appalling beyond word's that we as humans, in my beautiful country & apparently in other Countries too; are killing our women & children. But 3 innocent lives were prematurely ended today. A 5 & 6 year old & their mother.

Regardless of all you have written on this. And I defer to your seemingly vast knowledge. With the greatest respect, the sheer magnitude of this recent tragedy & all the other women who have been killed, maimed, abused & inevitably the total loss & destruction of all those lives, directly & indirectly affected, cannot be explained away by political agendas or any of your other theories you have adopted & adapted to explain.
 
Holy crap.

Why not just agree to disagree. We have one side arguing theoretical and the other side arguing actual. Ideology vs reality. (Please, don't rip apart my choice of words as in past threads where I've made this statement as it's an indication that my words are misunderstood and the meaning of my statement is lost.) Theoretical is nice but it doesn't offer much in the way of solutions in the real world.
 
I had hoped the irony would be obvious in my last comment.
It absolutely was - I didn't see that as a personal attack. And as I said, you haven't levied one. I meant exactly what I said - to remember on both sides to keep it about the topic, not about the person - that's all. A reminder, not reprimand. Topics like this feel personal because they are, in large part, connected to traumatic personal experience.
 
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