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No. It's vulnerability. If you can trust him to be with you when you are vulnerable, it can bring you closer together. It takes humility and courage to allow ourselves to be vulnerable when we have been hurt so badly. These are not compatible with self pity in my view. Pity, for self or others, assumes weakness, and unfortunately many of us with developmental trauma have bought into the belief that we are weak. We are anything but. The mere fact that we are still here and working on ourselves attests to our strength.I do fear self pity, something I know I'm capable of falling into...but it's not self pity when you allow someone to share your space?...is it???
And how can the brain ever build new pathways if we continually repeat the same patterns?Neither childhood nor adult life have been safe from emotional and physical attacks, or from rescuers.
I don't know that it is the exterior that is damaged. It is the interior in my case. The exterior, unfortunately provides a window for others to see our damaged interior in a truly raw form. That is super scary.it makes me feel even more vulnerable and somehow weakens my exterior....
These are all super valid questions. Sun and I have built a rapport and even with that rapport we have difficulties 'exposing' ourselves. But normally the other stays fast and steady and doesn't show surprise (we've both had experience with hiding in odd places, for example) nor judgement. Just patience. A calm energy. I think one of the keys is we both know how important it is NOT to react ourselves when the other is in react mode.is it cultural?....is it something that's engrained in us?...is it too hard to crack as its worked for us for so long?.... would I be in a worse mess if I changed tactic?
Then new pathways would be developed. Pain needs comfort imho. It may learn to reject comfort, but really it needs it.But then if I had someone who refused to go anywhere and stayed with me I'd be helluva uncomfortable, but then what? What would happen after that? It's an interesting question.
Shame also has a social aspect, it is like a 'social glue' that limits and controls everyone's behavior so that it's predictable in society (socialization). One common issue with the stigma towards people with mental illness or PTSD, is that their behavior is unpredictable, it doesn't fit into social norms, which causes most socialized people to feel shock, fear, uncomfortable, shame/exposed, etc.The roots of the word shame are thought to derive from an older word meaning "to cover"; as such, covering oneself, literally or figuratively, is a natural expression of shame. Nineteenth century scientist Charles Darwin, in his book The Expression of the Emotions in Man and Animals, described shame affect as consisting of blushing, confusion of mind, downward cast eyes, slack posture, and lowered head, and he noted observations of shame affect in human populations worldwide.
--- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shame
Unfortunately these common socialization methods are not very helpful with PTSD, or these methods actually create and reinforce PTSD.Shame is considered one aspect of socialization in all societies. According to the anthropologist Ruth Benedict, cultures may be classified by their emphasis on the use of either shame or guilt to regulate the social activities of individuals. Shared opinions and expected behaviors and potential associated feelings of shame are in any case proven to be effective in guiding behavior of a group or society.
Shame may be used by those people who commit relational aggression and may occur in the workplace as a form of overt social control or aggression. Shaming is also a central feature of punishment, shunning, or ostracism. In addition, shame is often seen in victims of child neglect and child abuse.
--- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shame#Social_aspects
That would certainly describe how most significant people in my life have related to me over the years. Is this from your own observation Valentino?social abandonment - speechless, create distance, change subject, dismiss, dissociate, escape [freeze, FEAR]
Totally agree.maybe it's more of a normalization response that can help heal PTSD? It is having a real human being, to bear witness in a conscious, calm, patient, compassionate, non-judgmental, empathetic, and open way? Isn't this healing through unconditional love and surrender? But it does seem easier and maybe even necessary to have a separate human being to consciously embrace with in shared humanity, which at first can feel very vulnerable, exposed and scary, but with 'radical acceptance' and humble surrender, our shared humanity is the strongest anchor to healing, resilience, transformation, forgiveness, integration, peace, equanimity, etc.
Absolutely. And this is one of the big differences between the psychotherapeutic model and shamanic traditions. In her book Soul Retrieval, Sandra Ingerman states that in traditional societies, before practicing a soul retrieval, the shaman will want to know who is waiting for the returned soul fragments when they come home. The soul retrieval process is done in community. The songs that guide the soul fragments home entice them back to the tribal fire and their family members anxiously waiting, not to a life of isolation. Before working with a client, she establishes what kind of a support system they have. Modern therapists will ask during an intake session about a person's support system, but then proceed to work as if it were of minor importance rather than a central issue.Community seems to be a missing link in the healing process, the current mental health model is done in isolation with a therapist playing the expert.
Not at all. As always, you have made some interesting and unique points, and they are appreciated.Apologies if I got a bit too deep and big picture, and not so personal. I'm still working on my Aspie limitations with communications.
Valentino are these the people who are 'affected' that you are speaking about or the witnesses (supporters).When people face uncertainty and unpredictable behavior they typically react with 3 methods:
- negative socialization - judgement, blame and overt shame [fight, RAGE]
- positive socialization - rescue, comfort, support, distract, cover-up with positive feelings [flight, PANIC/GRIEF]
- social abandonment - speechless, create distance, change subject, dismiss, dissociate, escape [freeze, FEAR]
Yes, this is what I am trying to get at. And I wonder at times if it 'takes one to know one' in order to get that acceptance. We both know what it is like to hide and have reactions that seem infantile and can be humiliating. But there is almost like a braiding in this. We support each other towards health but recognize that it will be a process. We are not attempting to enable, but to walk through it towards health with dignity and respect intact.maybe it's more of a normalization response that can help heal PTSD? It is having a real human being, to bear witness in a conscious, calm, patient, compassionate, non-judgmental, empathetic, and open way? Isn't this healing through unconditional love and surrender? But it does seem easier and maybe even necessary to have a separate human being to consciously embrace with in shared humanity, which at first can feel very vulnerable, exposed and scary, but with 'radical acceptance' and humble surrender, our shared humanity is the strongest anchor to healing, resilience, transformation, forgiveness, integration, peace, equanimity, etc.
And this can be a great description of how it can feel; until it doesn't.I was gonna talk or die.
I didn't say I did it WELL yet! JEEZ! :tdown:this is coming from the person who persists in calling herself an idiot? Really??