General What are they thinking?


Yes, we do eat hotdogs at home and it’s okay with him. We do that all of the time.

What I wanted to say is: I take the kids to a nature sanctuary and nearby there is such a little booth selling postcards, toys, hotdogs and so on... and he wont allow us to buy hotdogs there because he doesn’t want us to be near other people... or to doesn’t want us to buy the muffins they sell at a petrol station (which he used to love).
He is totally fine with us baking muffins at home.

We currently avoid so many things, basically everything involving sharing indoor space with others outside the family. So it’s really hard if even those little pleasures aren’t okay with him.


And I suppose talking to any relative or trusted friend of his about you being safe / should be able to buy things as they *are* safe - isn't doable, right?

Like wondering if his 'trust their reason as well as mine' circle of people (is there someone like that?) couldn't have any word with him.


Actually I tried to find out what the RKI (our state CDC) or the local GA (local CDC) said about it but neither had any guidelines. I wish to show him evidence that it is totally safe but just could not find any... also no evidence that it is unsafe.
I think it is safe. I never heard of this form of transmission. Cluster I heard of typically involve people meeting other people indoors breathing in the air somebody else breathes out, singing together, talking. I think this is how the coronavirus mainly transmits. I think 90 percent of the transmission is via aerosols and/ or close contact with infected people. Only ten percent is environmental. I have never seen any studies of this environmental transmission and how it actually happens.

Also few people we live have the coronavirus and the muffins are in a glass case.

You mean I should discuss it with others?


@Never_falter2 just to say, your H is right (tho over-kill), they say here can last on cardboard 1 day, plastics and metal 3-4 days. But it also depends on a larger virus load (on the object). What you want to avoid are things communally touched by others- a shared bottle of mustard; most definitely a buffet with shared metal serving spoons. But an open hotdog cart, in air, with a gloved server, risk should be very low. Same with muffins under glass- no less or more contaminated on any given day than when they were baked and presented. If they were always good/ clean, they still should be. And simply wash your hands after handling objects- which really should be the norm anyway. Especially before touching your eyes, nose, mouth or ears, and communally touched points like door knobs, light switches, etc. And if you've been indoors in a communal space, consider the bottoms of your shoes dirty/ keep at door.

Maybe you can say that supporting the economy, will help get increased revenue/ resources for the future, vaccines, PPE, etc. And that he will be showing the kids his bravery and resilience to live in the face of adversity, and that will help them feel more competent and less scared as they grow up.

But if he is thinking of nothing but risk and danger, the likelihood of it remaining a small pleasure is probably near nil. :(


I think it is safe. I never heard of this form of transmission.
They’re called “fomites”. They’re one of three kinds of direct transmission.

Similar to STD (Sexually Transmitted Disease) infection, where the pathogen is transmitted by touch/exchange of bodily fluids... but unlike STDs, fomites don’t need a living host to survive. They can exist on surfaces for up to a few weeks. Which makes them waaaaaaay more infectious than STDs. You actually have to have sex, or exchange blood, with the infected person to catch an STD. With Cov19 fomites? It would be like having sex with every single person who touched the ...door handle, rock, chair, etc... for the past FIVE days.

Say 3 people pick up the same orange, or climb on the same wall, before you do. Even if only 4 people a day touch it? That’s 20 people’s worth of fomites. Something more popular? Like a kid’s slide that has over 100 kids a day on it? That’s 500 kids fomites, over the last 5 days. Something like the floor of a gymnasium that has over 1,000 people walking on it every day? Wearing the same shoes that have been in contact with sidewalks with 10s of thousands of people walking on them? Exponentially big tr (Floors are the bane of laboratory scientists existence... more pathogens walk out of a lab on the bottom of someone’s shoe, than there are time for nightmares). To pick a middling number... neither 4 people per day, nor 10,000... Can you even imagine having unprotected sex with 500 people, and expect not to get sick?

So when you’re looking at taking your kids to a playground, rock wall, etc... That’s what you’re looking at. 5 days worth of fomites. Not just on their hands... but every surface of their body that comes into contact with anything anyone else has touched.

The climbing wall would be the most dangerous outdoor activity I can think of... as it’s not only their hands and feet, backs and legs, getting covered in fomites... but the entire front side of their body & face as they slither up a rock face that hundreds of other people have touched, sweated on, and breathed on, bodies rubbing against, etc. Of you wouldn’t allow your children to walk down a line of 500 people, and rubbing their bodies against each of them? Don’t let them rub their bodies on anything 500 people have rubbed their bodies on.
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We talked about taking the kids to an outdoor climbing park (including climbing walls) and thought it was halfway safe at least if we have disinfecting wipes for our hands.
Right now, we are the kids to the woods. I am taking them to a nature sanctuary. They play in the garden but they need a bit more action and variation of activities

I thought the coronavirus would die pretty soon from sunlight and fresh air and getting infected outdoors is unlikely.

Is it possible to get infected from a muffin/hotdog. I mean not only theoretically but did it happen to somebody?


Is it possible to get infected from a muffin/hotdog. I
Dont know anyone it has happened too but it would make sense that you could. If someone touched it/sneezed near it/sang by it --- anything that sends it into the air because it has to land somewhere.

While I do think your guy is over the top - at the same time I totally get what he's doing.
He has one job
To keep you and the kids safe
But the enemy isn't a bad guy sneaking up on you that he can fight
This isn't combat - where there are rules and plans and back up and he knows who the enemy is
Instead it's invisible "thing" that is everywhere.
That can kill you and the kids.
Kill. You. And. The. Kids
Unless he protects you

How does he keep you safe from something that no one can see?
How does he protect you from something that can only be fought by avoiding it - but no one can tell him where it is?
How does he do his job?
The ONLY job he has
Keeping you safe

So ya -- -add some OCD to the mix and I'm kind of surprised he's letting you out of the house at all without wrapping you all in bubble wrap.


@Freida What do you suggest that we do to help him adapt to the new normal?
I think the kids and me need a few more joys in life (in a safe way, I don’t want us to catch the coronavirus too)... but there are fewer cases in my country then in yours.
I think most likely we won’t die from it. That’s just statistics. We are young... but still I don’t want to take any chances.

How do you feel about the coronavirus @Freida?

**What I meant to ask was not how you felt about the chaos and disorder coming from the virus but the virus itself... like: Are you afraid you or a loved one might catchend it and have become very, very, very careful?
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What do you suggest that we do to help him adapt to the new normal?
therapy. :laugh: I don't mean that to be sarcastic but I don't think he's going to be able to view it differently without someone helping him understand that the way he is trying to protect you is not working and he needs to shift the mission. My VA T and I were talking about it a couple weeks ago -- how many vets are struggling with this invisible enemy thing

Are you afraid you or a loved one might catchend it and have become very, very, very careful?
I'm worried but I'm not over cautious. I don't go many places to begin with and hubby works in a really safe place so we aren't high risk. I think a big part of it is not having kids -- if we did I'm sure it would be a different version. Plus I think I assume the people I Iove will get it but in my best dissociative style I'm planning ahead for what to do next without really "feeling" anything. I'm sure that will bite me in the ass at a later day....but that is Future Freida's problem. :)


therapy. :laugh: I don't mean that to be sarcastic but I don't think he's going to be able to view it differently without someone helping him understand that the way he is trying to protect you is not working and he needs to shift the mission. My VA T and I were talking about it a couple weeks ago -- how many vets are struggling with this invisible enemy thing.

What did your T say? Might I ask?
Here many vets say they believe the coronavirus is all a hype and a hoax... but that’s because many tend to be conservatives and conservatives tend to think if you think the coronavirus is a danger you are unpatriotic sheeple. Basically some believe the coronavirus was hyped by the leftists in order to harm the economy and violate the constitution.
So basically a lot of conservatives tend to believe if you are afraid of the coronavirus you are a coward and have bought into “leftist lies“ so to speak and you cannot love the flag. They have rallies were they protest about thing like compulsory mask wearing and have t-shirts with slogans like “if you are offended by this flag I‘ll help you pack“.
I think that it doesn’t make much sense and wonder why so many otherwise halfway smart people fall for it...

(I love my flag and hate it being misused by covidiots)

BTW vet has trouble eating those days... just ranting. Sorry.


Could that be argued back, if you have to in any way involve yourself with that crowd / it's getting to your partner - that it being a leftist plague is *precisely* why wear the mask?

As in I dunno - if I have an enemy making a virus... I better double protect against it, so the son of a bitch biological toy ain't get me down.

It's very *patriotic* to wear masks :tup:

Sorry he's not eating though, that's incredibly worrisome. Can he at least with lighter meals?


I think you got me wrong. Sorry, my bad.
I don’t think there are many people who believe the leftist created the coronavirus... but they believe that the coronavirus is not really dangerous and that the leftists create a hype about it, you know. They believe that the coronavirus is like the flu but the leftists act like it is really dangerous and some do believe that they do so on purpose because they want to ruin the economy and violate the Constitution. They hold rallies and from what I heard a lot of people at those rallies are vets. So I wondered what’s that like in the US? Are there many vets who hold similar opinions?

In my vets conservative bubble people do not believe that the left hype the virus on purpose in order to achieve something, but they do believe that the left are wrong about the virus and that the war against the virus hurts the economy.
My guy has a friend, let’s call him Smith. He has got ptsd too and my guy met him when he reached out because of his ptsd. Smith helped my vet a lot because he could always talk with him and he also talked with him about his fears. He also helped him with more practical things (helped fixing the house, chopping wood whatever). Smith always said friendship with my vet was special for him like a very special bond they share. The corona lockdown came, vet and Smith met via Skype (sometimes me and Smiths spouse were there too and sometimes other friends) and enjoyed a glass of vine together - or sometimes also a few more glasses of wine and sometimes to many. He also met with Smith and other people who have ptsd via Skype. So he saw a lot of him lately private + linked to ptsd.
However first Smith was worried about the coronavirus but later he came to the conclusion that the coronavirus was actually harmless and he came to the conclusion people are just being coward and that the economy would be hurt. People lacking patriotism and so on. So he was a little drunk and basically said they are all being cowards and that he doesn’t get that cowardice. If he’ll catch the coronavirus he’ll take it on the chin... and the other said it too sometimes... and basically vet didn’t mention he was afraid of the coronavirus basically he said the opposite. He said that he doesn’t get why everybody is making such a fuss about the coronavirus. Basically he first tried to convince then but then when it failed my vet just gave up on it and started saying he came to the conclusion the coronavirus is actually harmless for young people and that he would take it on the chin.
Smith wants to meet vet in person again but so far vet always said no. So they always meet over Skype and they also laugh a lot but there is always the fact that Smith thinks everybody who is afraid of the coronavirus is a coward... and that’s so bad for my guy.
I asked my vet why he doesn’t discuss it with Smith. He just said I wouldn’t understand the reasons.
Smith asked my guy why he was still working from home. My vet told him he was high risk for Covid19 (and he holds that kind of job where he can do everything he needs to fo from home in front of his computer and having video meetings with other people. In fact it is even cheaper for them because they do not have to pay travel expenses for him). However he has a risk and his boss send him into working from home and he told Smith he was high risk and Smith said “I see“ and then spoke about the vine, didn’t ask any questions about what he had or how he felt about having a greater risk... and a bit later he was going on about “those cowards“ again... and I really think his opinion hurts my vet and wonder if I should talk with him about the fact that I think it’s not good what he is doing.

Because he is always going on about how much friendship means to him, about how friendship with my vet means a lot to him... and now he is hurting him.
Basically I see two possibilities: 1) it’s all hollow talk and he doesn’t care about him at all or 2) he doesn’t get how my vet REALLY feels about the coronavirus

I hope the second is the case because Smith means a lot to my vet. So I wonder if I should talk to Smith about the fact my vet is already feeling like a coward and the fact he cannot cope with the fact that people say those who are afraid of the coronavirus are cowards.

No, he didn’t eat today but only had milkshakes, doesn’t feel like eating + his stomach hurts.