General What are they thinking?

[Woundedhealer]

Here's the thing I'm thinking today. Warning -I'm sleep deprived and cranky... :laugh:

These are MY demons, MY past, MY crap. The idea that my supporters want to get into that part of my mind is astonishing to say the least. So I think about talking about what is really bothering me (once in a blue moon) but then I have to go thru the shitshow in my head and really think about what I'm about to say so I don't totally undo them. I have to do the same thing when people ask me about 911 calls. People routinely ask "whats the worst call you've ever taken?" Believe me - you don't want to know.

So I've got all this shit banging around in my head. MY head. I don't want to put those pictures in anyone else's. Because it never fails. I bring out something big and ..... silence.
I get it - people need to process what I say. But that requires me to back peddle because normal people don't have these things in their heads. And because my supporters are decent human beings, connecting me - the person they know - with the story I'm telling is really hard.

Example -- -talking to bestie. She's pretty tough so I'm not as afraid to talk about things with her as I am with others. I was having a really hard day and I blurted out "he made me watch him kill her." Because that was what I was struggling with that particular day.

Crickets.

Then she jumped in on how I shouldn't blame myself for what he did to someone else and was off on a lecture. Which I get --- she knows me well enough to know that's where I'm eventually gonna end up. But that day? I just needed to get it out of my head. I needed someone to LISTEN to the story I had to tell. I needed to figure out how to deal with that particular memory at that particular moment.

Now I have a new problem. Not only am I struggling with my own demons but I feel horrible for upsetting her with shit I knew was going to be to much for her to hear.

I love bestie and know that she always has my back and will love me no matter what I've done. I get that she was upset to hear that I had gone thru this experience. But I also know now that I can't have these conversations with her. And yes - I based that on my first attempt. It will be my only one. Because I can't hold both her reactions and my memory in my mind at the same time. And yes, I know she is hurting for me and that's not fair to her -- but.... there ya go

I guess my question for supporters is -- do you really want the truth? Or do you want a "clean" version of the truth? When you say to your sufferer "you can talk to me about anything" how will you come to terms with what they have done when it turns out to be something vile or hateful or disgusting or shameful or what not? How differently will you look at them once you know what they are capable of?

Have you REALLY asked yourself that question?
Because it takes only seconds for that door to slam shut.

I isolate so that I never have to put my supporters in that position
I isolate to protect them from the parts of me they don't want to know even exist.
I isolate to keep them from ever having to know the things I was willing to do to simply to survive.

I love that you wrote this and my honest opinion and keep in mind it’s my opinion only ... us supporters just want to understand and be there for you as best as we can. How can we understand if you don’t tell us? Keep in mind that our brains may be wired differently than yours so ya we want the truth ...?until we don’t... i often have to tell my my guy ... ok enough, I’m sorry, can’t hear anymore. But that’s me protecting myself ... i feel bad that I can’t let him totally unload sometimes but I have to take care of me too ... he’s a paramedic and I have a seizure disorder that gets triggered by gory details...i think it all depends on the person and the situation...
but as a supporter, I want to understand ... i want my guy to feel safe enough to unload ... but at the end of the day , it all depends on a persons threshold... hopefully , whoever you’re telling your story to will be honest and tell you what they can or can’t handle ... that’s where trust comes in
And even if one person can’t handle all of it doesn’t mean another can’t
I’d welcome any opportunity to let my guy be raw and vulnerable... but I’m secure enough in my needs to know what i can and can not handle. You have to trust that whoever you’re telling your story to will do the same. You’re not responsible for their reaction to your story when they don’t tell you to stop telling it and you should never water down your truth to protect another, although I respect the sentiment behind it but just find someone else that can handle it cause you deserve to say it ...
I hope i made sense

 

[lostforgottensoul]

These are MY demons, MY past, MY crap. The idea that my supporters want to get into that part of my mind is astonishing to say the least. So I think about talking about what is really bothering me (once in a blue moon) but then I have to go thru the shitshow in my head and really think about what I'm about to say so I don't totally undo them. I have to do the same thing when people ask me about 911 calls. People routinely ask "whats the worst call you've ever taken?" Believe me - you don't want to know.

So I've got all this shit banging around in my head. MY head. I don't want to put those pictures in anyone else's. Because it never fails. I bring out something big and ..... silence.
I get it - people need to process what I say. But that requires me to back peddle because normal people don't have these things in their heads. And because my supporters are decent human beings, connecting me - the person they know - with the story I'm telling is really hard.

Yes! In my experience, I have gotten a lot of "I don't want to hear" and they cover their ears or walk/run away, and have even left and abandoned me, or turn the tables on "how could you do that?" Or "how could you do something like that?" Or "ummm, you were being forced, right" as to make sure in their head that I wasn't killing animals as my own choices or whatever (as well as the straight up silence). Or they straight up don't believe it. My therapist talked a lot about that one. He says that's why the term "unbelieveable" exists. That it's so horrible that they can't admit that it happened. But, it really, REALLY, hurts and is not what I need in that time. And you asked. You asked! So, that's why I usually say "the trauma is not for supporters to hear" cause, in my experience, they can't handle a lot of it. And their reactions just cause me pain, hearing it causes them pain or causes them to look at me way differently, or literally call me a liar cause they can't being themselves to believe it, and yep, that door then slams shut and will never open again and now causes me to either lie to the supporter or just not tell them or HIGHLY sugar coat it!.

I isolate so that I never have to put my supporters in that position
I isolate to protect them from the parts of me they don't want to know even exist.
I isolate to keep them from ever having to know the things I was willing to do to simply to survive.

Yep!

I guess my question for supporters is -- do you really want the truth? Or do you want a "clean" version of the truth? When you say to your sufferer "you can talk to me about anything" how will you come to terms with what they have done when it turns out to be something vile or hateful or disgusting or shameful or what not? How differently will you look at them once you know what they are capable of?

What an awesome question! Would love to know as well!

 

[scout86]

When you say to your sufferer "you can talk to me about anything"

Anyone else here a fan of JRR Tolkein? There is a place where they are organizing the fellowship to deal with the ring, where they are discussing who should go. The two youngest hobbits,, Merry and Pippin, want to go. Someone "older and wiser" says that they only want to go because they have no idea what they're getting into. Gandalf replied that none of them knew what they were getting into, or how they would handle it. He argued that they should be allowed to go, because they'd forever feel bad, and guilty, if they weren't allowed to go and, besides, since no one can see future, perhaps they had an important role to play before the end.

Having said that... I do the same thing. Try to protect people from the stuff in my head. Partly, I think, because I believe (or give it) more power than it really has. Partly because of that "Ewww!" factor, which I don't like dealing with. (If I'm going to tell you the story, it's going to be like it's no big deal, because that's the only way i can let myself think it right now and I'd appreciate it you'd play along.)

How differently will you look at them once you know what they are capable of?

At the same time, THIS is a real thing. Recognize that you really DON'T know what you're asking for when you ask those questions. Don't over estimate your ability to "handle it".

My T reacts to stuff. This was a problem for me to begin with. I worried about what it meant and how I was supposed to manage his comfort level. Just yesterday, I was describing something and he winced and said, "I can feel it from here!" I laughed, stopped the graphic description, and went on. no harm, no fowl. I've discovered that he's teaching me that a person can have "feelings", even negative ones, and be ok. Who knew?

I isolate to keep them from ever having to know the things I was willing to do to simply to survive.

Totally understandable. At the same time, you also keep them from knowing the full version of "you". So then, isn't the relationship a lie? I think this is probably why I don't feel close to many people. (In my lifetime, I could count them on the fingers of one hand.) Because they'd have be able to know who I REALLY am,
and like me anyway. Pretty rare, but it's also pretty rare that I give them the chance.

If there's a message here, it's that it really IS complicated and it's probably good to acknowledge and respect that, from both sides.

 

[Sweetpea76]

Not only am I struggling with my own demons but I feel horrible for upsetting her with shit I knew was going to be to much for her to hear.

But really... how do you know it was too much for her to hear? If I’m reading it right, it sounds like she jumped in and comforted you. She defended you, maybe got pissed off that you were hurt and some MF did that to you?

Those are all normal human responses. She processed and reacted. She didn’t shut down and implode. Being upset is a part of life. It passes.

Me personally, my sufferer has never told me anything that has caused me any kind of damage... and he’s told me some nasty, gory shit. I tend to keep my mouth shut when he gets talkative about his trauma, but if I react, it’s kinda like how bestie reacted. I defend and comfort. If I get upset or pissed off, it’s at the people who hurt him... not at him.

Details don’t hurt me nearly as much as dealing with him pulling away or lashing out for some unknown reason... which, from the outside looks like “no reason” or “he’s pissed at me/doesn’t love me/doesn’t want me around at all.”

Something to ponder... How many supporters come here upset over the details of their loved one’s trauma, or from being told something they didn’t want to hear? And how many come here and post “WTF” because they’re in the dark?

 

[Butterfly64]

But really... how do you know it was too much for her to hear? If I’m reading it right, it sounds like she jumped in and comforted you. She defended you, maybe got pissed off that you were hurt and some MF did that to you?

Those are all normal human responses. She processed and reacted. She didn’t shut down and implode. Being upset is a part of life. It passes.

Me personally, my sufferer has never told me anything that has caused me any kind of damage... and he’s told me some nasty, gory shit. I tend to keep my mouth shut when he gets talkative about his trauma, but if I react, it’s kinda like how bestie reacted. I defend and comfort. If I get upset or pissed off, it’s at the people who hurt him... not at him.

Details don’t hurt me nearly as much as dealing with him pulling away or lashing out for some unknown reason... which, from the outside looks like “no reason” or “he’s pissed at me/doesn’t love me/doesn’t want me around at all.”

Something to ponder... How many supporters come here upset over the details of their loved one’s trauma, or from being told something they didn’t want to hear? And how many come here and post “WTF” because they’re in the dark?

WTF mostly. He opened up to me, what PTSD is like for him...some of his dark thoughts. I was glad he opened up to me...I felt bad for him, but wished he had told me before. I don’t judge and I could handle what he told me...it would never make me run away. I realize that a lot of sufferers have it way worse than he does and have seen /lived through a lot worse than he has and thus their supporter may or may not be able to handle the truth. It depends on the individual.

 

[WinterCricket]

Here's the thing I'm thinking today. Warning -I'm sleep deprived and cranky... :laugh:

These are MY demons, MY past, MY crap. The idea that my supporters want to get into that part of my mind is astonishing to say the least. So I think about talking about what is really bothering me (once in a blue moon) but then I have to go thru the shitshow in my head and really think about what I'm about to say so I don't totally undo them. I have to do the same thing when people ask me about 911 calls. People routinely ask "whats the worst call you've ever taken?" Believe me - you don't want to know.

So I've got all this shit banging around in my head. MY head. I don't want to put those pictures in anyone else's. Because it never fails. I bring out something big and ..... silence.
I get it - people need to process what I say. But that requires me to back peddle because normal people don't have these things in their heads. And because my supporters are decent human beings, connecting me - the person they know - with the story I'm telling is really hard.

Example -- -talking to bestie. She's pretty tough so I'm not as afraid to talk about things with her as I am with others. I was having a really hard day and I blurted out "he made me watch him kill her." Because that was what I was struggling with that particular day.

Crickets.

Then she jumped in on how I shouldn't blame myself for what he did to someone else and was off on a lecture. Which I get --- she knows me well enough to know that's where I'm eventually gonna end up. But that day? I just needed to get it out of my head. I needed someone to LISTEN to the story I had to tell. I needed to figure out how to deal with that particular memory at that particular moment.

Now I have a new problem. Not only am I struggling with my own demons but I feel horrible for upsetting her with shit I knew was going to be to much for her to hear.

I love bestie and know that she always has my back and will love me no matter what I've done. I get that she was upset to hear that I had gone thru this experience. But I also know now that I can't have these conversations with her. And yes - I based that on my first attempt. It will be my only one. Because I can't hold both her reactions and my memory in my mind at the same time. And yes, I know she is hurting for me and that's not fair to her -- but.... there ya go

I guess my question for supporters is -- do you really want the truth? Or do you want a "clean" version of the truth? When you say to your sufferer "you can talk to me about anything" how will you come to terms with what they have done when it turns out to be something vile or hateful or disgusting or shameful or what not? How differently will you look at them once you know what they are capable of?

Have you REALLY asked yourself that question?
Because it takes only seconds for that door to slam shut.

I isolate so that I never have to put my supporters in that position
I isolate to protect them from the parts of me they don't want to know even exist.
I isolate to keep them from ever having to know the things I was willing to do to simply to survive.

@Freida Oh Lady, how I I've missed you and your smart way of getting thoughts out of your head and into writing!

I wish I'd seen this last night so I could have replied right away and let you know that you will not get a cricket variety reply from this girl!

I'm sure the lag time in bestie replying to that truth bomb felt like about a decade, but clearly she is tough enough to take on whatever bats might come flying out of your belfry ;) Your reaction is proof of your sheepdog-ness, always worrying about hurting us supporters!

Fist thought here is that supporters aren't necessarily thinking what you imagine we are. I'm betting bestie was organizing thoughts so she could say something of value, and supporters are going to epic-ly fail at that from time to time. We humans seem to want to go into problem solve mode when we care about someone, and it's a good reminder to me that sometimes all that's needed is just a short acknowledgement of being heard and understood.

I'd say once you're got one, or two as you've have, supporters who you know you can deeply trust, try and give us the benefit of the doubt with the stuff you know would be utterly mind bending to the average seat-partner on the local subway. We are here for a reason, and once you've vetted us, please give us a little credit and quit trying to protect us from you. ;) That means don't go reflecting all our imagined hurt back onto yourself in the form of guilt.

So when it makes your brain itch when bestie processes or starts off on a diatribal variety defense of you, keep in mind she is making her best attempt at being your sheepdog, and don't you curl up and stop sharing with her... I like @LuckiLee's idea :)

A big yes, those of us with a "backstage pass to bats-ville" want to hear the whole truth, all the truth and nothing but. It's the silence that hurts us!

 

[Woundedhealer]

I also want to add that once you forgive yourself for whatever you did or didn’t do, then others reactions whether it be supportive or not won’t matter anymore cause YOUVE decided that it’s just a part of your past, and part of who you are TODAY! No one has the right to judge as we are all human and have demons whether we admit it or not. Coming to terms with our own shit and owning it frees up others to do the same!

 

[WinterCricket]

I also want to add that once you forgive yourself for whatever you did or didn’t do, then others reactions whether it be supportive or not won’t matter anymore cause YOUVE decided that it’s just a part of your past, and part of who you are TODAY! No one has the right to judge as we are all human and have demons whether we admit it or not. Coming to terms with our own shit and owning it frees up others to do the same!

@Woundedhealer - The end goal to reach and the hope of every single person on this site! :)

 

[LuckiLee]

Everything @Sweetpea76 said.

 

[candor]

I have been on both sides of being supporter and sufferer. I got on the forum cause I believed someone when he told me he had PTSD. Turns out he has a less well known and understood condition called schizotypal. It is often comorbid with borderline and PTSD. I have ADHD and have been raised by a bipolar/PTSD dad. In my own experience, neurotypicals can understand what they read about us which is often written by neurotypicals. We who are brainwired differently don't always get to tell our stories how we see ourselves. This forum and utube is slowly changing that. I tend to have similar conversation styles with borderlines and bipolars. I don't have to repeat myself or slow down or keep it short when I am with them. I have been blessed by having them around me now some 40 years and we intuitively know how to share what is on our minds, We are not strangers to abuse. I don't often try to explain much to neurotypicals unless they are deep in the know like supporters. The one thing I try to tell sufferers is that our supporters put themselves at risk of developing secondary PTSD. We all need to make an extra effort to understand how our behaviours effect others. Thus is the reason I choose to live with renters who I don't know. It's easier. I no longer feel a need to be a supporter for my schizotypal. He is extremely independent and can't accept help from anyone. From his own words, he has never gotten this close to anyone. Unfortunately, this closeness is often followed by nausea. No one can explain this. I don't have words to explain how we communicate when we do but it's just really really different. And even writing this, I can guess how it must sound to a neurotypical but that is part of the sounding crazy that we don't like to expose more than we have to. I can't tell you how many find it unbearable to associate with neurotypicals due to stigmatization. I wish to build bridges but it can feel like I am speaking another language.But I don't want to sound like I have a connection with someone just because they don't have a typical brain. It's not that simple. And how open you are has a lot to do with trusting that you will be met with an interested audience.

 

[Ronin]

Think you might have it harder for accomodating both a personality disorder, & a trauma one, how they interplay and multiply (& cancel out the good advice for dealing with this or that typical symptom, by other disorder being at play too), @candor.

 

[Freida]

And this is why I rant and rave here --- I KNOW you all are fabulous at helping me get my head outa my ass :hug: :laugh:

How many supporters come here upset over the details of their loved one’s trauma, or from being told something they didn’t want to hear? And how many come here and post “WTF” because they’re in the dark?

Y'know - Now that you mention it I have to admit that I haven't seen the whole "holy crap do you know what horrible shit my sufferer did?!" thread. hmmmm....

. I defend and comfort. If I get upset or pissed off, it’s at the people who hurt him... not at him.

I'm sure the lag time in bestie replying to that truth bomb felt like about a decade, but clearly she is tough enough to take on whatever bats might come flying out of your belfry ;) Your reaction is proof of your sheepdog-ness, always worrying about hurting us supporters!

I don’t judge and I could handle what he told me...it would never make me run away

I soooo wish I could get my head wrapped around this. Why o why do I always jump to their reaction must be directed at me? Because I know damn well bestie and hubby have told me that yes, they do get upset but it's not at me. That it is ok to tell them, even if it makes them cry because it is horrible. Because they aren't crying because I told them. They are crying because they are sad for me or mad at the bad guys. ughhhghghgh :banghead:

try and give us the benefit of the doubt with the stuff you know would be utterly mind bending to the average seat-partner on the local subway. We are here for a reason, and once you've vetted us, please give us a little credit and quit trying to protect us from you. ;) That means don't go reflecting all our imagined hurt back onto yourself in the form of guilt.

well when you put it that way,......... :rolleyes:

o when it makes your brain itch when bestie processes or starts off on a diatribal variety defense of you, keep in mind she is making her best attempt at being your sheepdog, and don't you curl up and stop sharing with her... I like @LuckiLee's idea

I have been blessed by having them around me now some 40 years and we intuitively know how to share what is on our minds,

Honestly now that I've heard from all y'all I wouldn't dare tell bestie I doubted her ability to cope. She would be on the next flight up here just to bitch slap the crapola outa me for even going there :laugh: So once again you guys save the day --- and the pricey airline ticket.

I also want to add that once you forgive yourself for whatever you did or didn’t do, then others reactions whether it be supportive or not won’t matter anymore cause YOUVE decided that it’s just a part of your past, and part of who you are TODAY! No one has the right to judge as we are all human and have demons whether we admit it or not. Coming to terms with our own shit and owning it frees up others to do the same!

ok. this one really hit home.
I think it may have to jump to the front of the therapy pile o crap this week.
Because I think you are right. I expect them to look at me like I look at me. How could they not? If they knew the truth how could they stay? Knowing what I've done?
But.
As you all prove to me over, and over (and over --- good god freida get it thru your head!) supporters are way, way tougher than I realize. They have to be just to deal with our day to day drama. I guess when it comes down to it that's what supporters are really all about. Seeing the worst of us and loving us anyway.

gotta go do some big thinking bout all this.....