What Did My Therapist Mean....

[Jane.l]

@Lucycat I do agree with you but ... Sometimes people are feeling too fragile or maybe don't feel confident enough to ask their t straight out - so we may have to do some gentle reassuring that it's ok to go ask - and I think that's important that we can test things out here if we are not comfortable to come straight out with it . Especially early on in therapy before a relationship is built it's hard to know what's ok.

 

[Jane.l]

Sorry my phone is having a melt down !

 

[Suzetig]

I know what you meant @Lucycat, I understand that folk may feel uncertain in their relationship with their therapist, and may need to wait for a week before being able to as whatever question but asking other people what X was thinking when they said whatever feels like an exercise in mind reading.

I also really struggle with the "I hate my therapist, they did "insert whatever questionable behaviour here" and, when people come along pointing out the glaring boundary violations, poor practice or odd value base, leap to defend their therapist to the death and explain why it's not a big deal after all.

Maybe I'm just really fortunate to have a very open, positive relationship with my therapist. No doubt that would be challenged somewhat if I started to expect her to be available by text and email whenever I wanted, to work for free or to let me be disrespectful of her and her work space. Yes PTSD creates lots of challenges in relationships and yes it's really hard sometimes to hold on to our anxieties and stresses but sometimes what people expect of their therapist amazes me.

 

[Jane.l]

I think we are in danger of judging people here - thinking that's not helpful !

 

[Suzetig]

My apologies, it's not my intention to be judgemental of others, I just wonder at times about the nature of the therapy relationship where it seems ok to expect therapists for accommodations we wouldn't ask for in any other walk of life.

Early in my therapeutic relationship I've found myself questioning whether she is supportive enough, available enough, accommodating enough when she holds clear boundaries and supports me to work within them based on questions and discussions in threads I read here. I didn't mean to be judgemental so much as question whether we have at times unrealistic expectations of people we pay to support us.

 

[Leah123]

I think it's up to the therapist and client to decide what's reasonable for the amount of money provided. There is so much variety from provider to provider and even among individual clients seeing the same person.

Ultimately, of course, if the client expects an accurate answer, we must ask the therapist these things directly: what are you thinking, what did you mean, would you mind this, would you mind that. And I do agree that it's best to ask directly, I just appreciate that not everyone is always immediately ready to be so direct all the time.

 

[Kas_Can_Fly]

Do you mean with many different therapists? Sorry, I'm a bit unclear.

Sorry it was me thinking on a broader scale as well as therapists and other relationships as is seen here on this site - I was very unclear! No, I mean many different people in my life, though this has included many non-family members and whilst it hasn't directly included therapists, it does include medical professionals (and not just hurtful/damaging ignorance).

My experiences with most people no matter who they are is they are more dangerous when confronted and this leads to punishment, they are unpredictable and anything might set them off. When you mix in the fact that I can't tell when it's someone else being unreasonable, I have a tendency to blame myself for even the slightest mix up and to take things literally, makes it difficult for me to trust anyone, including my therapist who has misunderstood me (which has terrified me), though I am working on trying to let some of this go as well as understand why I do.

 

[greenleaf]

@Kas_Can_Fly, I definitely can relate to an internal sort of "place" where people are more dangerous when confronted; my brother was strongly that way, and that was years and years of my life. While he wasn't totally unpredictable in all cases, I couldn't stop the situations from happening that he would claim "caused" him to "have to be" violent, they were normal everyday ones. I am currently working on a part that can react still that way.

I worked very hard on getting out of the house with my brother, and getting skills to fit in with the people who seemed safer, and lucked out in finding some truly wonderful ones. I'm very grateful to have met quite a few such folks over the years; I have loads of "life" skills now, but partly thanks to the very useful ability to squash emotional connection to those old memories. I don't think that my therapy until very recently really dealt at all with dissociated stuff, or at least no Ts ever used that language.

There is the, um, small problem of now sometimes dealing with old emotional reactions, noticing and figuring out what is what... But Kas, it's so much less terrible, scary, or bleak than how I remember it felt decades ago when I did not have the better "adult" perspective developed, where some folks are pretty trustworthy, and I can make the comparison with my old world. I now have something to work with the old stuff with, a more positive internal perspective. The world can feel so much brighter once you really know some trustworthy people for long enough, I think maybe a deep part of our brain changes, you can relax some and maybe you never even felt that before. Totally worth the work. I hope you are getting some of that relief!

@Leah123 -- I think that for folks who are dealing with deep trust issues with therapists, concepts like "is this a reasonable thing to expect of a human" can be outside of what that trust-related layer comprehends... Not that it's not a valid question, it feels for me like a different part that would try to deal with such question rationally. The trust-don't-trust issue is much deeper -- and @Hashi, you can't for instance argue someone into really having trust. I feel that it's similar to the fact that you can't argue someone into not re-experiencing a trauma, into not having insomnia.... that is another way of stating the analogy I was trying to make.

 

[joeylittle]

I think, more and more, that trust isn't some ephemeral thing. It's not a feeling I'm going to have.

Trust will show up in my actions, or it won't. If I trust my mechanic, I'll get my brake pads replaced when he says I should. This might happen even with a mechanic I have never seen before - but I've got no reason to believe he's out to harm me, and I've chosen his shop based on a recommendation (usually). Now that I think of it, I'd not go to a mechanic that was not recommended by someone I know.

But that's all it takes for me to trust.

We aren't cars, I know, but it's so very similar. I know that to tell my therapist about my trauma is a terrifying thing. And I don't want to, often. But I trust that he is there to help me. Why? Because he was recommended by someone I know (and knows me).

In a funny way, I don't actually have to trust him. I have to trust that he is capable of doing the job I have hired him to do.

Whether or not I know him well enough to trust him, the actual person he is - that is a question of time and efficacy. He has succeeded with me more often than failed; so that gives me reason to trust in him. But periodically I feel the need to review his privacy practices with him...why? I think probably because I have personal trust issues. But those aren't relevant to whether I trust him to do good work with me.

Just a thought.

 

[scot]

Maybe with PTSD one of the issues might be what kind of triggers there are.

For instance, different people have different trust issues. Some have issues with strangers while others have issues with people they know and "trust". For instance, I am perfectly fine with stranger, but at the moment when I build up a relationship and start to "trust" it's over. Oh, yes, that's a strange way of experiencing trust - at the moment when you start feeling comfortable and trust, you start running in hysteria and panic for your life - wonder where that is coming from.....

Anyway, another issue might be a power issue and what is experienced as a "save environment". Ts do actually have quite some power which for instances scares me to death......HAAA? I am sarcastic I know exactly, but that doesn't help...

Asking strangers anonymously on the other hand: They can't get a hand on you, they are comfortable fare away, their suggestions can be disregarded as useless just like that without that this needs to be discussed, they don't need to be faced personally, they don't every need do be talked to again without that this requires anything (canceling an appointment etc). This might be especially for those very valuable that have issue with setting boundaries in person, saying NO - damn that sounds familiar....

Yes, it would be good to develop all those skills and resolve these issues when facing a person that is as powerful and physically as well as emotionally and relationship-wise as close as a good therapist, but for some people its just not possible and forums like that might then be a good practice or entity to slowly inch toward that? At some point I told my therapist that I am truly sorry but once I can handle a therapist I am likely cured and don't need one any more.....sad but likely true....

 

[Hashi]

you can't for instance argue someone into really having trust. I feel that it's similar to the fact that you can't argue someone into not re-experiencing a trauma, into not having insomnia.... that is another way of stating the analogy I was trying to make.

I didn't see your analogy as being about having trust or not having it, I saw your analogy as being about dismissal of fears/concerns. To me, "just don't think about being raped anymore and go to sleep already" is not challenging, it's simply dismissive. Whereas suggesting you address a concern about something your therapist said with your therapist is - to me - challenging but not dismissive.

I dpn't believe in being dismissive, but I do believe in a certain amount of challenge - however tough that is. That's where I'm coming from.

I don't think you can "argue" someone into not re-experiencing a trauma. I do think you can challenge someone about working on their reactions and responses, however difficult. I believe - and it's my personal experience - that there's a lot we can do.

In particular, I think there can be a tendency to see trust and attachment issues as an insurmountable barrier to therapy, rather than something to use therapy to work on, one step at a time.

If you don't agree, then fair enough. In that case, we have different views.

 

[Leah123]

But you see, that's exactly the point: if a person is here asking what their therapist thinks, they've already accepted the challenge of doing the hard work, one step at a time. They've found someone, seen someone, and spoken with someone enough to say something meaningful and receive a troubling response or lack of response.
And then they come here to work it through part of the way, another step, and often go on to take that next step with the therapist, whether that step is just showing up again, or showing up and asking directly, or whatever it may be.
I don't think it has to be either/or, I know for me, it's typically both.