What If You Don't Really Mean Anything To Anyone?

[Chava]

p.s. I'm not much into analyzing, but I assume it's really early stuff that is similar to object permanency, but also disorganized attachment patterns and flipping between constant but low grade (on a good day) derealization and depersonalization in trying to deal with my confused connection to the world. But it would be interesting if anyone knew if there was a word that fit it together. I'm just chalking it up to the developmental piece of complex trauma.

 

[KwanYingirl]

I spent the day at the beach with my best friend who lives far away and some of her extended family. They have rented the same house for the month of August for over 50 years. I have known them since 1982 and have shared many events among them. Her mother was my role model for being a mother when I raised my children. Her parents were the best. If any member of the family was struggling, their parents circled the family around that member and they all grew up knowing how to show affection and support. That was the kind of mom I wanted to be.

There is two girls 3 and 5 years old there today and I had brought a boogie board as I had two in my car that I picked up to have around for my kids. This particular beach is always very gentle and very safe. There are waves, but they are small. I was out on the boogie board just floating and feeling so alive as the ocean always does for me. The two little girls were with other family members and I decided to teach them how to float on a board. They were both afraid, but if you could've witnessed how this family surrounded them and worked with them and helped them overcome thei fear, well, it was amazing. We will be back at the beach all week and when I left today, one of them asked me to please leave the board!!

This is what grows healthy children. They are loved and supported unconditionally. I have marveled at this family for 3 decades and if we all could have been raised by her parents we'd be soaring. I just wanted to share this because I was thinking about you @Chava and that people don't feel real to you at times. And then I thought about Friday's perspective and then I just read your response. It just occurs to me that if you haven't got a healthy role model as a infant and child, you most certainly lack the necessary skills to navigate your social world. I know that I was a very fearful child/adult and never experienced comfort or tools to help me overcome them. I am very people phobic because I know I lack social skills. I think you're into what you need practice with and in the meantime don't be so hard on yourself, you have a lot of examples of relationships that work for you. It's just spooky when our PTSD rears its whacky ways.

 

[Chava]

Thanks @KwanYingirl .... it is bittersweet to watch families like this. I do feel really good for the kids surrounded with love and safety. And it also sounds like a wonderful place where you're at...and fun to be able to share the ocean with the kids.

if you haven't got a healthy role model as a infant and child, you most certainly lack the necessary skills to navigate your social world.

It's not really even much about social skills, I don't think. I navigate most of my social world okay. I've worked on many committees, am good at supporting my colleagues, have been chosen by peers for different awards, etc. I'm really socialized in a way, but dependent on that role. I just don't believe I actually mean anything to anyone. I do my work well and then sort of just disappear. I don't connect on a deeper level, I don't expect others to care about me...just my work or what I can do. But yes, all of this was modeled in my younger world.

I think you're into what you need practice with and in the meantime don't be so hard on yourself, you have a lot of examples of relationships that work for you

Thank you. I am getting better at recognizing where I feel okay, or where I feel like I can push myself, vs just constantly feeling like a f*ck up. Like a little better awareness, self acceptance, and sometimes a little compassion for where I'm at, even if I usually don't know how to move beyond.

 

[Chava]

And to be fair and honest, there are many people I can chit chat with, if not at a crowded table. But the bubble is always there. I seems to go down in the rare moments someone seems to see through my bubble and I am simultaneously interested in that person. So it's possible. What is impossible is teasing out how much of this is the early trauma and how much is me just being nerdy, artsy, and a little eccentric. Trying to accept me but also stay connected to "friends"....yet open to meeting that sort of friend again who could see through my bubble and who I'd instantly want to know as REAL. In the worst teenage moment, people I thought I knew really seemed robot or muppet-like. I simultaneously couldn't trust anyone. Too f*cked up to describe. But thanks for this space. It's helping me sort some stuff out.

 

[KwanYingirl]

My Reiki master and therapist have encouraged me to cover myself with a bubble because I am too sensitive to all the energies being put out by them. Forget malls. I can hardly breathe in them. And on some days I can hardly stand the feeling of taking on my clients' energy. So if you're going to remove yours, can you please send it to me to borrow cuz I have no idea how to wrap myself with one!

 

[KwanYingirl]

@Chava do you know who Bruce Cockburn is? Canadian singer songwriter extrodinaire. One of my favorite musicians to see live. I'm reading his autobiography and he speaks often of his search for human connectedness. I'm only up to 1980 and I'm on page 201!! He can remember his mindset from way back its amazing. Book is titled Rumours of Glory.

 

[KwanYingirl]

Also, they say that music is the only thing that engages the entire mind at the same time. That's a lot of activity.

 

[oasis2003]

What if I really don't mean anything to anyone?

Been there, done that. My value isn't determined b...

ye you have to love your self. I am still working on this. if you love your self then it projects on to other people I think. you smile and they smile with you so everyone tells me. hard when you are depressed. I care about you Chava please do not be so hard on your self. I am here if you ever need any one. I will support you if you want me to. it is hard because it is hard being alone, but also exhausting being in company as well.

 

[oasis2003]

yes often when I am with lots of people it exhausts me. I am used to being alone it is easier. I also tried to be invisible when growing up to stop emotional pain. I find it hard to trust people and touch from others is hard even though sometimes I crave close physical close proximity. it is hard all the time. Even though numb emotionally I use vodka to numb myself even more if it is overwhelming.
I have tried loving kindness to my self it is really hard though.

 

[oasis2003]

Also, they say that music is the only thing that engages the entire mind at the same time. That's a...

music in a group, such as singing in a choir or band is supposed to help connectedness, also dancing.It is impossible feeling any connection with any thing or any one when you are dissociated this happens to me a lot, depersonalisation and derealisation

 

[Chava]

So if you're going to remove yours, can you please send it to me to borrow cuz I have no idea how to wrap myself with one!

:) That's one interesting way to look at it. I don't like malls either. But I do have a thicker bubble in chaotic places, so I think that probably does help me just find a new pair of pants once in a while.

The book looks interesting...will look up.

they say that music is the only thing that engages the entire mind at the same time

Not surprising. For me playing a symphony orchestra was mega present-moment inducing. Everything you're doing to play your part while also being aware of everyone else and how it all fits together. There is no substitute for that experience. Other things probably present-moment inducing, but just not the same :)( but I'm still searching for the replacement things).

@Oasis thanks. I've done a lot of vodka too. I'm working on sobriety (was sober many years then f*cked up on some new meds). I understand the connectedness thing with music groups. For me, that is one way I feel connected and like I truly belong. I had to quit playing violin with an orchestra because of chronic re-injury and the condition of my joints.

I get the depersonalization-derealization thing a lot, but often so low-grade and continuous I'm not even aware that I'm out of touch. To me it just feels "normal"...but then I look around and wonder why my life is so empty, disconnected, and screwed up. I've felt like I exist outside my body often, like for years. This has improved with recent therapy...like I exist in my body and feel more connected within myself (hopefully this translates to wider connection to sometime).

With other people, once in a while it's like I'm watching a movie or they are all programmed from some central source that I am not aware of (best I can explain it...and I haven't experienced it this bad for years now, so that's hopeful). I can actually probably relate that last example to some pretty specific early trauma because I felt the same way in that experience.

 

[KwanYingirl]

@Chava I have the experience often of feeling like my head is in a bell jar when I'm with people. I know they're talking but I can't perceive it. If the person/s are emotionally heightened, I am really out of touch. I've concluded its dissociation, but maybe it's more depersonalizations. I guess it's just semantics. All I know is I prefer my dose of people to be one on one. Even then I can check out.