What Makes A Man?

[fairywings]

Yes :)

 

[freakofnurture]

if the depression is what illicits the "who am I?" state of questioning, then does it make us introspective/reflective?

I think when you're feeling okay and have all those pleasant emotions and activities in your day, you are just too busy being you to think about what that means. Then when you're depressed, all that is put on hold. The pleasant stuff doesn't feel pleasant anymore, you're too exhausted to do anything, and all that's left for you to be is a jumbled mess of symptoms, questions, regrets, self-criticism etc. that birth all kinds of brooding questions about the world, your life, yourself.

I think depression can make a person more introspective, but I don't feel that much can come out of this brooding, negative kind of introspection. Aside from more to brood about and keep yourself put on hold.

 

[AzureMind]

So all that's left is loosing the brooding depression in order to regain pleasant emotions and activities to just be myself huh FoN? hmmm....I agree on the whole, but to my knowledge, I don't remember anything that really made me feel happy...there wasn't a time where I wasn't in fear of what was to come when I came home, the only thing I really had was dissociation/video games...I never really had much freedom/friends to interact with so my memories of things integral to my happiness is sadly limited...I was the eldest sibling, and I felt it was my responsibility to help protect my brother/mother from my father, that's all I know as a 'base program' like something emotionally hard-wired into me, but no sequential data for recall (memories) about times that pasted when I felt comfortable just being me.

Is there anything, homeopathic that works? I'd rather not take pills for something I want to own up to...I understand that depression in part is a brain chemistry problem, but something tells me that that is a half-truth...medicine can be used to treat alot of things, but I think there's something to be said for having a strong will too...it's a nice way of saying I'm a stubborn ass sometimes...:rolleyes: lol

 

[freakofnurture]

I don't remember anything that really made me feel happy...

You'll find something eventually. Just sitting in a nice, comfortable place watching the bird feeder can make one happy.

I'd rather not take pills for something I want to own up to...(...) it's a nice way of saying I'm a stubborn ass sometimes...:rolleyes: lol

Stubborn or naive? :D No, seriously, after a certain point you're only setting yourself up for failure by trying to will away depression. It's not called an 'illness' for nothing. And believe me, you'll still have plenty to own up to even when you're on meds.

I'm not saying that to push you in a direction or other - there are a lot of arguments against meds - I just want you to know that the particular argument that you're presenting here is not completely valid.

 

[AzureMind]

I definitely have to say I'm probably just as naive as I am stubborn FoN!! :laugh: But in any case, willing it away hasn't exactly worked to my benefit in the past so what logic is in repeating that? I suppose the only valid option would be to consider a plan worked out between my therapist and myself; his objectivity, and my self-awareness should be enough to hopefully resolve this depression...at least I'm HOPING that we can resolve this.

 

[stuff]

I am not a man, but I also get that sense of lost ungroundedness.

I think most well-adjusted people grew up with an ability to find good qualities in other people and trust in them and even emulate them. I think we intrinsically know good from evil, and most people who struggle with PTSD work hard to be good people in the face of adversity, but since I was very young I learned to take everyone with a grain of salt and that good actions aren't always based in good intentions.

Living with PTSD feels like living around people with their masks pulled off. It's always fairly easy for me to figure out why a person is acting a certain way and it's profoundly disheartening. There are good people in the world but there are a whole lot of selfish big talkers too.

Maybe it's hard for us to create those same masks, and that's what makes things harder. People cling to things they like. Maybe we cease to cling out of a sense for our own safety.

 

[stuff]

All I know is I try and find my happiness in small pleasures. Things that are safe to feel happy about and won't turn around and smash me to a thousand bits. A good cup of coffee, a friendly dog, something good to eat. It's not much, but it's better to dwell on the small good things in my mind and those things seem to grow a little bit every day when I have some sense of faith in them.

 

[fairywings]

A good cup of coffee, a friendly dog, something good to eat. It's not much, but it's better to dwell on the small good things in my mind

That is how I find pleasure. In the simple things. I sorted my art supplies today and it made me happy.

 

[just me here]

Been thinking about your post Azuremind.

My life was changed by a counselor that gave me a real nugget to hold onto, and I pull it out whenever my self confidence is wavering. I don't know you, I am guessing how you will feel this applies to you. For me it was like a crystal clear shot to the mind, dead on perfect.

He told me this: You are not psychotic or we would know about it, when you have an emotional reaction to something it is real and valid, based on reality. The skill to learn is using what we have taught you and what you already know to be true to recognise the emotion and to react to it appropriately.

For me, thats the essence of maturity and manhood. If something makes you mad, learn how to avoid it or find a way to reconcile it, don't kick the dog or yell at the kids. If something causes you to be sad, figure out what you have lost and find a way to replace it, don't let sadness carry you to anger or self hatred. if you are scared, understand that the feeling is OK and use the opportunity to recognise what scares you and confront it or learn to avoid what scares you, don't try to hide it and let it rule you. And if you are happy embrace it and be receptive to the feeling, it is OK to be OK, go with it.

Sounds so simple because it is. Like I told you earlier, I am fifty and can't nail down an answer. My counselor was a wise man and I hold his advice as a gift to me. But it isn't a cure all or a map to manhood by any means.

It will be a different path to your goal, I just wanted to share the ideas that help me and hope they help you.

 

[AzureMind]

Living with PTSD feels like living around people with their masks pulled off. It's always fairly easy for me to figure out why a person is acting a certain way and it's profoundly disheartening. There are good people in the world but there are a whole lot of selfish big talkers too.

Maybe it's hard for us to create those same masks, and that's what makes things harder. People cling to things they like. Maybe we cease to cling out of a sense for our own safety.

Very interesting stuff....wow...I couldn't have said it better...:) I've gotten really good at discerning people's motives based on whatever limited information I get from people, words, gestures, sentence syntax etc. I call it "second sight". I probe their words, tonality, the way they express themselves everything to find little discrepancies that help me to 'spot the not' or the translation of their statement...a good explanation of what I mean is a movie called "Dakota Skye" where this girl has the ability to "tell when a person is lying" but anyone can do it, if you understand subtext and the connections between words, gestures, and intentions. It can be disheartening, but it's a gift I FULLY embrace because it allows me an intimate view of how a person is hard-wired, and their intentions towards me.

PTSD breaks the mask in my opinion...I think the reason why I'm usually expressionless is to hide what I feel is most visible to people. It's true what you said regarding people clinging to what they like; it gives them a sense of identity, when they lack internal resources/senses that reaffirms who they are, in the face of adversity, but since alot of people never come face to face with that type of adversity that traumatizes, they never experience themselves beyond their likes and dislikes, and really live in their projected persona, and not from their 'Self'....familiar with Jung's Individuation process? He's the link if you're into it...I'm a psych nerd...some people fix things, I fix myself I guess :)

http://www.soul-guidance.com/houseofthesun/individuationprocess.htm

The small things huh? Ok! I can do that! Kinda like when you say your prayers and what your thankful for? I'm gonna give that a try! I guess I never thought of it that way because I've always kinda been afraid to 'connect' to anything outside of physical/emotional/mental self...which probably explains why I spend so much time dissociated entertaining the world between my ears :laugh: Anyway, I can do that when I get away from my family...I think THAT will be my time I can focus on myself and UNWIND!
:sleep:

I like that idea of the bird feeder FoN; I forgot how great the outside world beyond dissociation can be; living in the immaterial world of the mind gives you great, novel things to look at, but it doesn't help you cope with the world your body is left in. Thanks a bunch for that! :)

For me, thats the essence of maturity and manhood. If something makes you mad, learn how to avoid it or find a way to reconcile it, don't kick the dog or yell at the kids. If something causes you to be sad, figure out what you have lost and find a way to replace it, don't let sadness carry you to anger or self hatred. if you are scared, understand that the feeling is OK and use the opportunity to recognise what scares you and confront it or learn to avoid what scares you, don't try to hide it and let it rule you. And if you are happy embrace it and be receptive to the feeling, it is OK to be OK, go with it.

Sounds so simple because it is. Like I told you earlier, I am fifty and can't nail down an answer. My counselor was a wise man and I hold his advice as a gift to me. But it isn't a cure all or a map to manhood by any means.

JustmeHere, you have NO IDEA how much you've helped me out; that post made me feel like I'm 7 years old and it's Christmas morning. It's EXACTLY what I needed! Despite it being so simple, I looked over that with the dissociation, fleeing away from what was right infront of me; I hid in my own world away from the insight I could've gained by observing my issues right in front of me, and if I only could've taken my insight to the outer world that I lived in, I could play out my emotions/scenarios to completion and cope with the trauma.

I'm definitely not interested in avoiding things that bother me, or scare me anymore because that's like running away from who you are. I'm a fighter (kickboxer, and DARNED good at it!) and when you get knocked down, you get yourself back up, and knock the guys head off!...metaphorically/situationally speaking of course! :D . I promise to myself and everyone, that I won't run away from what I'm feeling, or let sadness carry me to anger or self-hatred...I never had emotional training/coaching and it really helps...Thanks, this was a gem I'll keep with me for the rest of my life...thank you from the bottom of my heart!!!! :D

 

[just me here]

JustmeHere, you have NO IDEA how much you've helped me out; that post made me feel like I'm 7 years old and it's Christmas morning. It's EXACTLY what I needed! Despite it being so simple, I looked over that with the dissociation, fleeing away from what was right infront of me; I hid in my own world away from the insight I could've gained by observing my issues right in front of me, and if I only could've taken my insight to the outer world that I lived in, I could play out my emotions/scenarios to completion and cope with the trauma.

I'm definitely not interested in avoiding things that bother me, or scare me anymore because that's like running away from who you are. I'm a fighter (kickboxer, and DARNED good at it!) and when you get knocked down, you get yourself back up, and knock the guys head off!...metaphorically/situationally speaking of course! :D . I promise to myself and everyone, that I won't run away from what I'm feeling, or let sadness carry me to anger or self-hatred...I never had emotional training/coaching and it really helps...Thanks, this was a gem I'll keep with me for the rest of my life...thank you from the bottom of my heart!!!! :D

Not me, my counselor. he was a great one and has retired. He taught me alot about relaxation using biofeedback too, but the simplicity of just learning to know what you are feeling is OK as long as your response is appropriate has been a life changer for me. Sad, Mad, Glad, Scared, they are all just transient things that will pass, but the trick is recognizing them correctly and learning to react appropriately.

The credit goes to a great counselor, I join you in thanking him for this simple nutshell version of a path to a better life.

 

[AzureMind]

but the simplicity of just learning to know what you are feeling is OK as long as your response is appropriate has been a life changer for me. Sad, Mad, Glad, Scared, they are all just transient things that will pass, but the trick is recognizing them correctly and learning to react appropriately

That's what bothers me; not being so practiced in expressing outwardly what I feel inside makes me question what is 'emotionally appropriate' and what is not. I feel things very deeply, and as if it comes from the center of my being and it drives me, and my rational mind at times conflicts, rules, and balances with my emotions on a good day. I feel that I'm always 'aware' of what people can take, and what they cannot, and it makes me more quietly reserved when in truth I may not really be that at all. So, how can I be true to my self, and harmonious/successful with others?