Why Can't People Empathise

[Safi]

The "sufferers" tend to inflict a lot of suffering on others and often make very little effort to understand their partners.

Almost all the supporters that come here seem to be partners of those with combat PTSD. Combat seems to be a little different as they have had training to engage the Fight response and repress other responses people usually get when they go into flight and fight. That also does not mean all who have Combat PTSD are the same either. People are people. Human beings. Not only that but an enormous amount of the supporters on heres partners are not in treatment. They are also almost all woman.

I think there is a huge problem on here with these things distorting the big picture when it comes to those with PTSD and their behaviour.

I personally am very offended by the above statement. I am the one that attempts to understand everything about others feelings and have had almost none of that from anyone in my life. Including my husband.

All my anger is turned inward and I was unable to do the Fight response at all as it was knocked out of me young. My husband has hit me in my sleep for having nightmares and I have also been hit for asking him to help me with a problem with my mobile. My foremost thought and energy goes into how others feel and it has taken a lot of therapy to be able to balance that out. I see very many of those with PTSD who are similar and many more who although have anger problems at times, have also been on the receiving end of them and who care very deeply about those around them. And whose families have zero interest in knowing how they are feeling.

us who do not have PTSD have been through things that are just as horrific, if not more so, as those people who do have. For whatever reason, we just carry on.

I am sure there are "supporters" that have experienced Criterion A trauma. I hope your intention was not to shame those who have ended up with PTSD. And I hope too that if you have experienced a Criterion A trauma that you never get PTSD.

 

[Safi]

Oh. And my experienced with my husband have zero to do with getting PTSD...

 

[Edijo]

And I hope too that if you have experienced a Criterion A trauma that you never get PTSD.

I have experienced Criterion A trauma. More than once, in fact. So far, no PTSD. Perhaps it will develop in the future. In the meantime, however, I don't expect anyone to "empathize" or "understand". My intention in posting in this thread was solely to point out that it is unfair and unreasonable to expect others to care about our personal issues, especially when it's not a close relationship and the person(s) involved have no way of grasping the magnitude or effect of the trauma.

As far as this "shaming" business goes, how about we try to avoid invoking inappropriate and unfitting jargon? Nobody has been shamed about anything.

If you're offended, that's on you, not me. Again, as I said previously, no one is making anyone read my posts. Sufferers do make others suffer. There would be no need to call supporters "supporters" or create forums for them to vent their frustrations if it was a bed of roses for them. I'm sure you're familiar with secondary PTSD, so let's not delude ourselves playing the "who has it worse" game. Everyone who comes into contact with PTSD--sufferer, supporter, unsuspecting friend, unwilling family member---suffers for it.

 

[Safi]

Personally I don't like the name "supporters".I certainly don't have supporters in my life and many here don't have either. Actually, I wouldn't want one either. I would prefer something like "loved ones" but I actually doubt that would apply for you considering your sentiments here. I am glad for you that you are out of the relationship as anyone who feels as you do shouldn't be around someone with PTSD and it seems your experiences were very negative and have tainted your views.

You insist on generalising and choose not to hear what I was saying so there is really no point in continuing the discussion. For you everyone who has PTSD is selfish and self involved, totally disinterested in the feelings of those around them, aggressive and inflicts harm on all those around them to the point of possibly causing PTSD.

Personally I care very deeply about others personal pain when I hear about it, whether it is a friend, family member, colleague or a stranger whose story is on the news. I am very glad that trauma hasn't taken that away from me. That I haven't hardened and that I continue to care about human beings and recognise their humanity and that I see individuals and judge them according to their individual actions and character. That it is narrowed my mind or blocked my view.

 

[Safi]

That it is narrowed my mind

Has not narrowed my mind.

 

[Jitere]

everyone who has PTSD is selfish and self involved, totally disinterested in the feelings of those around them, aggressive and inflicts harm on all those around them to the point of possibly causing PTSD.

Those are YOUR words, not mine. Just to be clear.

 

[Mubuvut]

WHOA!!! (This is why I question you being here....)

Sufferers do NOT "make" other people suffer!!! This is incredibly UNcalled for! I see you as someone who wants to scare everyone away from caring about someone with PTSD. So not cool.

I frequently read the supporter boards. I know what is said. But in the end, we don't force people to suffer, so please don't act like you're saving people by showing them the light and telling them to get out of dodge.

Good God, you act as if the term "sufferer" was given to us because we make everyone else suffer. Uhm, no, it wasn't!

 

[Mubuvut]

Many of us who do not have PTSD have been through things that are just as horrific, if not more so, as those people who do have. For whatever reason, we just carry on. To assume you know what I've been through is presumptuous and a bit silly really. I understand that many of you are so buried in your own traumas that you don't see that everyone suffers eventually (some of us even more than some of you), but many of us eventually come to recognize that it's really quite unfair to dump our garbage in the laps of others.

Please don't try to drum me off the board, I've been here a while and I'm not going anywhere. Plus, it's very childish. If you post in an open forum, anonymously, you will get responses you don't like or agree with. It's just the way it is and, frankly, I think it's probably a good thing that both sufferers and supporters are occasionally reminded that, in the real world, many people don't want to deal your problems... and that they are perfectly justified in not wanting to.

Yes, BUT, you're still not a supporter or a sufferer! You may have experienced criterion A but you don't know what it's like to live with the rest of it as a sufferer and as a supporter you used to look on it from the outside.

We're not buried in our own traumas as to be blind to everyone else! You don't know what it's like to have PTSD and feel utterly alone. You're saying "buck up!! We all suffer so why are you complaining?!?" So not supportive!

You are a guest on this forum in that you aren't a sufferer or a supporter. Just as sufferers have to play nice in the supporter forums and supporters have to play nice in the sufferer forums, you have to play nice everywhere because you're neither.

Most of us don't go trolling around forums to which we have no connections in order to give advice as an outsider. It just seems weird that you have chosen to stay connected to this after gaining your freedom and giving your sufferer (who made you suffer!) the boot.

 

[Anehi]

You are a guest on this forum in that you aren't a sufferer or a supporter.

You are as much a guest as I am. If you go back and read my posts properly, you'll see I have as much right to be here as you do.

Just as sufferers have to play nice in the supporter forums and supporters have to play nice in the sufferer forums, you have to play nice everywhere because you're neither.

Please spare the nonsense about "being nice", you're the one who has been nasty and accusative throughout this thread. I have shared my opinions, and you went on personal attack mode. Don't call me a troll, because, once again, it's an unfair and inaccurate judgment. If you don't like my posts, ignore them. My opinions are no less important important than yours so please stop acting like a bully. It doesn't do anyone any good at all.

The bottom line is no one owes anyone anything... supporter, sufferer, bystander. I think many sufferers forget this. I never said to buck up or anything of the sort. All I said was that it is unreasonable and unfair for sufferers to assume others (who do not have PTSD) will empathize, understand, or even care. In so many of the cases discussed on this board, sufferers have initiated relationships with people who have no clue what they're signing on for, and then have gone on to behave as though the partner/supporter has failed in some way when they don't know what the sufferer needs.

Perhaps if both sufferers and supporters were aware of the effect of their behaviours on one another, both groups would be happier.

 

[Subac]

In the wider world whenever people catagorise a section of people based on their colour, their gender, their religion, their social class or an illness or disability, it is considered as prejudice. To speak of a section of people in generalised negative terms is putting such a prejudice into action.

When you have PTSD, there is a tendency to project past abuse onto others who look the same, sound the same etc, and recovery means learning to notice when you do that, and to take action not to. Not having PTSD does not excuse others from taking responsibility for their own negative thinking styles and behaviours.

In my view, it is acceptable for a supporter to go to the supporters section and have a rant about their spouse/family member/friend. But to do that is to say "I am suffering because my spouse does this...". But when you turn that into "PTSD sufferers always make people suffer", then that is no longer a rant at a spouse it is a prejudice.

If you look at the diagnostic criteria for PTSD, it is clear that not everybody will have the same combination of symptoms. Moreover, when a person relives trauma, or reacts as if they are back there, then the very different traumas create very different reactions. Me lying under a blanket shaking and dissociated, or unable to speak are not going to cause you any suffering.

Prejudice is caused by ignorance, and while everyone needs a rant, I believe you are mis-led to believe that the supporters section was set up as a place for that reason. I went there yesterday to counter the negative view shown on this thread, and I was pleasently surprised to see that there are some people there, who, like me on this thread, are genuinely looking for advice about how to handle the disorder without causing any harm to another. And thankfully, there are long term supporters as well as sufferers who are able to provide sound and knowledgeable advice.

I walked away from this thread, because you seem to be wanting to hurt and provoke argument, and I didn't want to take part in that. What I am not surprised to see, that having got a few responses to your provocation, you are trying to say you are being bullied.

 

[Biseji]

The following is what I actually said:

The "sufferers" tend to inflict a lot of suffering on others and often make very little effort to understand their partners.

Everyone who comes into contact with PTSD--sufferer, supporter, unsuspecting friend, unwilling family member---suffers for it.

This is what YOU said:

But when you turn that into "PTSD sufferers always make people suffer",

If you want to continue to behave as a bully and express YOUR prejudices, that is your prerogative, but as long as you try to manipulate this exchange by using hyperbolic language which twists the meaning of what is being said, I will correct you. You seem to be projecting your own prejudices here, and your own issues with what you feel to be unfair behavior toward sufferers.

I have no prejudices when it comes to this disorder. Individuals with PTSD often exhibit certain behaviours (according to the DSM manuals, not me). Those behaviours are extremely unpleasant to be on the receiving end of, or even just witness. Not wanting to be around someone who is exhibiting them, does not make one prejudiced. It makes them someone who takes their own self-worth and well-being as seriously as the sufferer takes his or hers. So, again, let's try to avoid the use of incendiary language to manipulate the conversation. As long as you continue to communicate in that manner, you are being a bully.

 

[Nihuk]

(This is my first post in this thread.)

The following is what I actually said:

Bade said: ↑

The "sufferers" tend to inflict a lot of suffering on others and often make very little effort to understand their partners.

Edijo said: ↑

Everyone who comes into contact with PTSD--sufferer, supporter, unsuspecting friend, unwilling family member---suffers for it.

This is what YOU said:
Subac said: ↑

But when you turn that into "PTSD sufferers always make people suffer",

I think what a lot of what you wrote actually sounds like judgment, prejudice, hurt feelings(un-processed hurt feelings since you need to come in here and spread your bitterness and prejduice in here; without showing any support at all; just starting a conflict all by your self= thus not bullied, but being met with arguments about your hurtful accusations about people you don't know) and bad attitude. There is no point in discussing if you through stuff like that around you. I can't see that you came in to this thread to spread anything good, but to vent your own bitterness.

Not all people with PTSD hurt other people. Period. And I think this thread was about trying to be a good friend and understand some things better. But your words didn't help with that. And I don't think you're helped either by creating conflict with spreading your own bitterness and pain. I think you would be better helped by looking at your self instead of accusing people you don't even know or understand(obviously!) and maybe starting your own thread venting whatever you need to vent?


As for the thread it self. I think ALL people with or without PTSD deserve compassion, understanding and empathy. Not only people with PTSD suffer. But I think it can be hard for someone without PTSD to understand. As long as they are willing to be your friend, and the friendship gives you something and feels warm and good to you, maybe that's just something to accept. - But I think the more important issue in this world is that so many people tend to "blame the victim" in a way that's pretty absurd. (And evil I think.) I don't know how everyone else does; but I for SURE don't go around telling people I have PTSD since doing that might make them react in ways that really doesn't make me feel any better. Like get angry with me, tell me to just "let it go"(when I've been trying to for 15 years, but my brain couldn't before I got some REAL trauma therapy to help me find the way to heal the brain) or just shun away and stop even greeting me when I meet them. Like if I had the plauge or something.. :( Or being asked what I did or didn't do. (Why did you not fight? Why didn't you report it to the police? Maybe you enjoyed it? Maybe you provoked him? - Etc. Etc.)

Being met with hatred, cruelty or indifference is the usual case if I ever tell anyone I have PTSD. (Much like the prejudice written and bitterness I read up there..) That's why I don't, unless I have to.