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News Why It's So Hard To Talk To White People About Racism

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@Anarchy

Thank you for spelling it all out for me. It really does help to have it all laid out as you have.

You make a good point about cultural appropriation. Why are certain kinds of cultural appropriation a-o-k while other kinds are not so ok? Who decides where that line is drawn and why is there a line in the first place?

And I'm sure to get lambasted for this, but doesn't it sort of go the other way too? Think about immigration-----if cultural appropriation is so wrong, then why is it that many/most immigrants adapt to the culture of their new country? (Depending on where they're going.) Shouldn't we be saying "no, no----you must keep your traditional ways and customs!"

Then again, what do I know? I'm just a cultureless American white girl. (Sarcasm-----based on nasty things said to me in the past about how I have no culture because I'm only white.)

I remember when Gwen Stefani came out with an album and she was adopting the Japanese Harajuku look. She actually had harajuku girls follow her around for promotional events and while on tour. I thought it was the oddest thing. But yes, an example of fully accepted cultural appropriation----in this case cultural appropriation as part of a passing fad. Gwen dropped the harajuku stuff shortly thereafter.
 
This video, while definitely geared towards a certain age group, does a great job illuminating the vocabulary and issues around the concept of cultural appropriation:

It's a good reminder, too, of how concepts can out-pace education. Cultural appropriation was a term once used predominantly by sociologists, historians, scholars. It's come into the mainstream, and that's a great thing, because it's a real thing and it really happens now, not just in history. But, you need to know the family of terms that come with it: Cultural exchange, assimilation, forced-assimilation, dominant/marginalized culture, stigmatization, cultural significance...when people leap headlong into arguments about appropriation without having the tools to really talk about it, tons of misunderstandings ensue.

I think as the conversations continue, the rest of the vocabulary of culture and culture clash will, eventually, make its way into every-day speech. Then, we will talk to each other better. It's why I think this video is effective.
 
God------

Now I have total white people guilt.

I don't think it's so easy as saying that people from oppressed cultures are taking on certain aspects in order to survive-----because this leaves the non oppressed culture always at fault---KWIM?

I mean the oppressed culture says it's a matter of assimilation for survival (I call BS on some of it) but if the non oppressed culture does the same (in reverse) then it's wrong?

Somebody please go tell that to Bo Dereck. I don't care what anyone says, she was hot in those braids! And I don't understand why suddenly braids are a cultural thing? Maybe I was being raised a racist because I wore my hair in braids as a child. :-/
 
https://thenaturalhairadvocate.com/...raids-when-white-women-wear-black-hairstyles/
This article does a good job on hair.
...the line between cultural appropriation and cultural exchange is often blurred. And I think when it comes to hair, in particular, it’s not so black-and-white (pun intended), since no one can really claim ownership per se of styling techniques. So, if a White woman gets cornrows because she wants to change her hairstyle, or because she thinks they look good, or because she wants to keep her hair off of her face—why not?Now, if she’s decides to wear cornrows because she’s trying to be “down” with Black culture, or trying to “look Black”, and is, in essence making fun of the Black experience, that’s a different story–I think that’s where it becomes appropriation.
Bo Derek's hair in '10' wasn't a comic take on cornrows, it was just a legit hairstyle. So, no appropriation - exchange.

The author also makes the point that braiding is a global thing, a human thing - it's cross-cultural. But, since blackness is very politicized right now, black hair is politicized, and that makes it appear to be a black-white issue, when it's really not.
 
I had a black big sister. Skin colour did not matter a jot to us children. However I recall my grandmother telling my sister how grateful she should be for having been adopted by my parents.

I have just came upon this thread. I am white but my 3 children are all biracial so I have had the opportunity to see racism from a different perspective. And my husband who I was married to for 4 years when he passed away, had 4 of his own and they were Jewish and raised conservative. While only 1 followed down the conservative path set, they all agreed without even realizing it that I was "less than" and some concepts were "beyond my comprehension."

I have to wonder if choosing a child of color to adopt wasn't a calculated choice. It hurts my heart what you and she endured.
Have you kept in touch with her?
 
I have just came upon this thread. I am white but my 3 children are all biracial so I have...

I suppose I'm possibly potentially making an offensive comment here, so I'm going to point out that my first belief above all, is that every mindset and prejudice or lack of is rooted in personal experience. Then people chose to add or disregard beliefs based on choice as they grow up, travel, get educations etc. I think many people with rigid viewpoints have not had much exposure outside of their place of origin.

That said, I think the jewish aspect of your comment is interesting. I've seen some jewish people that are convinced they are innately intellectually superior, and am aware that in their circumstances, it wasn't individual beliefs. It was a part of their jewish culture to believe that and they weren't that bothered with hiding it either.

It can be impossible to discuss any questionable beliefs or attitudes with them without being accused of being anti-semetic also. So you get left with accepting the attitude or being accused of ignorantly persecuting them.

I really cant stress enough that Im not generalizing all jewish people here, but I've seen this quality more times than I wanted to, put it that way.

I'm just wondering if its possible that was behind their comments about your inferiority more than race was.

Its a tricky topic for sure.
 
I agree that culture played a large part. But what makes a cultural belief that involves judgment any different than a racial judgment?
When a person is sized up and found less than because they decide they are above.... Above what? Their own limiting false beliefs.
I have experienced enough life that required just getting back up, I have proven myself resilient and through it all I continue to gain wisdom. I say wisdom because am learning to follow my gut. I see the repetition enough to slow down and say this path is too worn and familiar, time to take a different path. I decide my worth. If a person or persons don't see it, I seek out different people. I carry only my opinion of myself. If I choose to accept another's opinion of me good or bad above my own, I will never be happy because I will never be me.
 
I agree that culture played a large part. But what makes a cultural belief that involves ju...

It doesn't make it any different. It's a combination of ignorance and entitlement, which is the defining characteristic of all prejudice. Whether someone feels entitled because they're from a group that has been historically persecuted or not doesn't make it acceptable, often some people in these groups feel it does.

Another thing they usually have in common is the belief that what I just said is true, but doesn't apply to them. That's the entitlement part.

I had a similar experience living in Europe based on the fact that I'm American and didn't have Ivy League college degrees. It was so blatant sometimes that I couldnt believe it was actually happening. It was made clear that no matter what I had going for me, I was never going to really matter as much as the next person in the room and I was subjected to subtle jokes at my expense constantly. The general consensus was that I was intellectually inferior just because I'm from California.

I suppose that superiority and inferiority comparing is just human nature, some of us have evolved past it better than others.
 
There are some blacks that I just can't stand. That goes for some white, Chinese, Vietnamese, Jewish, ect, ect. The only point I will make is this. We all know and agree that through the yrs "MANY" races have been abused, hurt and demonized. Blacks, Jewish, Indians, ect ect. It was wrong, and we can't change what has happened, we can only move forward.

Personally, I don't think things will ever change where race is concerned. Bigots and hatred has been here for 100's of yrs and I don't think it will ever go away.
 
Personally, I don't think things will ever change where race is concerned. Bigots and hatred has been here for 100's of yrs and I don't think it will ever go away.

I agree with that as sad as it is.

KKK has been alive into today though lessening, what's not lessening, it seems, is
white supremacy as a whole. I grew up calling that day's KKK "skin heads" and the today's pision gang called the "Aryan Brotherhood" and what's now called "The 3rd Klan" inside of the KKK; which are several groups that make up the whole.

There is no doubt still a racial divide. I do think it starts at home. In middle school I watched a kid make a KKK doll. But then again, I was raised to be racist, my dad still is though he says he isnt, and im the furthest from racist one can get. I chose to not hate; which hating is a choice and one can choose not to.
 
"[My Personal Opinion of] Why It's So Hard To Talk To [The Majority of] White People About Racism [in the Current United States or Predominantly White Populations]"

I modified the article's title to reflect and portray the content that I perceived I was reading. But with that said, if one was to scale the article up to a global and or full historical scale this article could apply to almost any culture at any point in time.

I don’t even know where to begin…

When discussing culture divisions I think it is very vital to look at human history and anthropology on macro and micro levels. As much as it is important to understand the details that make up the larger picture, it is just as important to understand how those details form and inform the larger picture. I find while listening to or even trying to participate in dialogue on racial aspects and tensions in the United States it boils down to people being racist (on every side of the fence), and that personal emotional pain and self-identity trumps any reason and logic. In other words the fascist-right clashes with the regressive-left.

And each of side of the crazies likes to scream, “You ALL are evil, stupid, and vile!” Those individuals peg ‘the others’ as all bad, and themselves as ‘all good’. Then those crazies fight for the attention of the people that fall in the grey areas of sanity.

Now this isn’t to say atrocities haven’t happened (and still happening) and that those atrocities are not wrong. But the fact that the tension and emotional reasoning are so high to the point that I even have to put a disclaimer as such? That is problematic.

I personally feel like I cannot talk about racism because I am part of the majority of my culture (American). Not White America, not Black America, and why the hell do we only mention those with the least or most melanin in their skin as if they only exist… but modern American culture. The personal reasons that run through my head on why I feel like I cannot talk about race and racism? Because I am socially punished if my thoughts and opinions are not 100% regressive-left. And I am progressively-left.

Footnote: The term regressive-left was coined by a progressive-leftist Maajid Nawaz, before the fascist-right decided to utilize the term.

Apparently, my opinion, my personal experiences and my understanding of the issue is automatically dismissed as untrue, and uninformed simply because I have less melanin in my skin. I am considered racist before I even open my mouth to speak upon the matter. I am already racist before anyone knows my personal history, my life actions and beliefs. I am already racist because I apparently benefit from a culture that I’m homologous to in theory. Because my ethnic background is English, Irish, Polish, French and Choctaw Native American and my phenotype is really pale skinned. However, because of my Native American ancestors many people mistake me for Hispanic or rightfully so Mixed-Race. I’m racist simply because of what I look like. Please someone tell me they see the fallacy in that one.

That is the emotional part of me. The pained part of me. The voice that has been silenced because someone else’s pain has dictated such silence despite myself having no part of that pain. It is guilty by association.

But let’s get back to logic and define some terms.

Racism:

The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

· Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

Marginalized:

Treat (a person, group, or concept) as insignificant or peripheral.

Peripheral:

Of, relating to, or situated on the edge or outskirts of something.

There is this idea that is perpetuated that every action against someone of marginalized group, any disagreement, any time anyone says ‘No’ to or anything that doesn’t solely benefit a marginalized group is discrimination. But it gets worse when a marginalized group starts making demands that promote inequality in their favor, and become entitled to favored treatment at the sake of marginalizing the former or current privileged groups.

And I as a female, am talking about all marginalized groups. And not all marginalized groups are small either. Take third-wave feminism for example that promotes inequality towards men now. I as a feminist (humanist) frankly am appalled by idea that men being sexually assaulted and violence against men should be dismissed when discussing violence and assault against women, despite the facts and figures that speak otherwise. The reason why men are more likely to be violent then women? Because their pain is swept under the rug as less than and they don’t get the needed help. Instead they internalize that pain and rage, and become angry against the world. And that is why I have PTSD. Because my abusive grandparents (namely my grandmother) abused my father who in turn abused me. His pain was swept under the rug as less than, and my sibling and I took the brunt of his pain. This is not excusing his behavior as he should have taken personal responsibility for his pain (like I am for mine), but it is the reason behind the pain that I carry.

There is this idea that the pendulum needs to be swung all the way to the other side in order for equality to happen. That is not equality. That is still promoting inequality. Now I’m not advocating the ‘utopia’ of Harrison Bergeron (Kurt Vonnegut, 1961) where all our individual strengths and weaknesses are muted in favor of equality and unity. But what I will advocate is equality of opportunity, access to resources and tackling the root causes of external bias while simultaneously internally dismantling bias.

I as an individual am responsible for myself, my thoughts, my emotions and my actions. I am responsible for any dependents that rely on me or those that cannot depend upon themselves. And I am responsible to (not for) other adults. And that responsibility includes being respectful, civil, understanding and open-minded. And I am responsible as an adult to my civic duties in society, and to work peacefully and productively alongside other adults.

There are so many people trying to do good in the world, though they may not be perfect and nor their opinions completely unbiased. But to paint a whole group of people so broadly will always be detrimental.

When we talk about race, slavery and racism in America, the facts get muddled and parts of history forgotten in favor of one side or the other depending on who is talking. Then again that happens globally with all populations.

We forget the mass slaughter and diseased riddle blankets against the Native Americans. But we also forget Native Americans sold other tribes into slavery. We forget about the South American empires like the Mayan and Incas and how they destroyed their neighbors. We forget the Japanese internment camps, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We forget Pearl Harbor and the fact Japan invaded other countries. We forget the European countries that suffered during WWII, like Poland and France. We forget that once an enemy, then an ally Russia suffered more deaths then the Holocaust. We forget that Brits enslaved the Irish and forced them to migrate during the famine. We forget that Africans sold their own into slavery centuries back. We forget that today there are black plantation owners in Africa, with black children stolen from their villages and forced to harvest the majority of cocoa beans. We forget Genghis Khan, The Ottoman Empire, Romans that enslaved the Celtics and Germanics, Egyptians that enslaved the Jews, that Israel today is harming Palestine. And we forget the effects of colonization but we also forget where the concept originated. Oh so long ago in the Euphrates Valley and Tigris Valley.

I could go on at length at how violent and racist our species is. We forget a lot of things when we talk about race in America. We forget that we are the most wealthy compared to the rest of the world. We forget that white people are also the lowest population in the world. We forget that even though white people currently hold the most power that wasn’t always the case throughout history, and going forward it probably won’t be the case as well.

Our species does this thing about forgetting history and even ignoring current events. And pointing at the current people in power and saying, “You! You and your kind are responsible for all the ills of history!” But then when the power changes hands the same goddamn thing happens. The oppressors become the oppressors.

Revenge and reprimands against the prior or current oppressors are called for. But then something else happens revenge and reprimands are also called against the children and subsequent generations of those oppressors. Much like how young Germans face guilt for something they never did nor support. And then the cycle continues once the new oppressed find their voice…

And blacks against BLM? They are called coons, Uncle Toms, house slaves and white apologists. Yet, if anyone actually listens to them they are giving constructive criticism against extremism, racism and asking for more personal responsibility from their own communities. And speaking up against perpetuating the cycle of violence. They aren’t agreeing with racism on any side of the fence, they aren’t dismissing the pain of the past and they do speak up against external and internal bias. These individuals want to support BLM but feel like they can’t because of the hypocrisy in now a large growing portion of the movement. How do you think they feel knowing that their voices are trying to be silenced? Their pleas for peace, rationality and understanding?

For some reason people believe we should be tolerant of inequality and irrational demands simply because it is being requested by a marginalized group. Crazy should never be tolerant on any side of the fence. And that is what is happening today. The pendulum is swinging to the other crazy side and any rational discourse and critical thinking has gone out the window because people can’t handle someone disagreeing with them of all things.

And before anyone says I don't understand because I don't have 'authentic' experiences. My first best friend was black, the first guy I dated was black and the first woman I kissed... yep. Black. And it wasn't because I was trying for such, or because I wanted to be non-racist and sought those experiences out. It is just how my life has unfolded and the individuals I've connected with at the time. It was not until I paused and reflected on such did I even notice it. Just like their are other social experiences in my life that were firsts with other races, and just like their were firsts with people that have white skin. And yet I still have to prove that I'm not racist...

I don’t think it is a racial issue that divides America. Nor a sexist one. Etc. I think it is the rational vs. irrational. Good people vs. crazy people. And that is what it always has been throughout history.

And people wonder why PTSD exists…

That. That is why I as an individual with very little melanin in my phenotype feel like I can’t talk about race in the United States. Because I’m a part of the majority my voice means less and my point of view dismissed.
 
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