The "f" Word Will Help You Heal!!

[joeylittle]

If you have a concern or complaint about a post, thread, or member, please use the report button to alert staff to the issue. Thank you.

Void, I respect your opinion that Forgiveness is irrelevant to you. Those of us on here that state our religious beliefs generally get chastised for doing so. So if this site is going to be true to it's colors, I look forward to someone chastising you for your knocking our religious beliefs.

@crc53liamt - We don't enforce excessive chastisement for any belief system.

@void. - mythological Jesus may be your opinion, but it is unnecessary. Use ignore.

We aren't going to play 'I got hurt, then they hurt me, so hurt them back.'

REMINDER:
You'll find information on how to use the ignore function here.
The Report Function: How, When, And Why To Use It

Moving forward, any and all posts that may be attacking, etc., need to be reported.

The discussion is valid and I really don't want to lock this one - posters need to use the systems that are in place and let staff do their job.

Thanks.

 

[Sandstone]

I'm interested in forgiveness in a broad context. There has been some good debate on what it means, and I 'd really like to follow that through. The questions I am asking at the moment are
Who does forgiveness have an impact on? The forgiven the forgiver, wider society?
Is sorrow/regret/ repentance on the part of the wrongdoer necessary as a precursor to forgiveness?

Any thoughts?

 

[EveHarrington]

Can I ask why there is the assumption that those who have not forgiven are full of anger, hatred, and rage?

Isn't it possible to have been "done wrong" (catch all term) and to not be angry-----and have not forgiven?

In all honesty, the only time I use the term forgiveness is in Gods relationship to me. In human relationships I think of it more of letting things go and moving forward.

I don't necessarily believe that God wants us to forgive everyone. I much rather believe that God wants us to be strong, well minded individuals, and if forgiving those who have "done us wrong" is too much for us to handle-----then that's ok. We are "only" human and I do not believe that God expects us to be held to the standards of the divine.

My argument is not meant to offend those who do not believe in God or don't believe in forgiveness (and it's not meant to offend anyone really.) I think we all have our own paths on this journey and if forgiveness works for you then that's great, but it won't be a concept that is useful or embraced by everyone (as its a concept that can indeed be detrimental to some, those with religious abuse histories in particular I am guessing).

 

[Deleted member 541]

My thoughts on this whole "God" thing....... If God wanted us to FORGIVE our abusers, and he is an all forgiving God, the why in the f*ck did GOD allow the perp to f*cking abuse us in the first place??????. Supposedly God is all knowing so he KNOWS that the perps are out there, so he could have stopped it,,,, Just a thought!!!!!

 

[Deleted member 541]

And I really don't want to hear that MAN has free will. Have heard that bullshit for way too many yrs. My church turned on me many yrs ago, they treated me like a whore and called me that when I had my daughter and wanted her baptized. The stories go on and on how the good old boys in religion have USED their authority to ABUSE.

 

[Suzetig]

I guess I see the concept of forgiveness as something separate from faith, or that both can exist independently from one another.

For me forgiveness means restoring the relationship to the point before the offence occurred. If you're a person of faith you'll recognise that as being what God offers, a relationship with us as if we had never done wrong.

I forgive my husband for a hundred different annoyances a day - none of them a big deal and because I love him and know he loves me I want to have a good relationship, which means keeping a clear account between us. I don't hold things against him and can let go of my own hurt, annoyance or whatever. It's good for him and for me.

Where I struggle more is the idea that I can't be healed if I haven't forgiven because it ties my wellbeing to someone else's relationship with me. There are folk whose account will never be clear because of what they did and the impact on me and because they don't recognise the hurt they caused. I also think the idea that I forgive "because the Lord wants it" is flawed, I'm assuming "the Lord" also wants world peace and an end to hunger which feel more achievable than me forgiving some of the people in my life to the point of restoring the relationship as if the offence had never been caused. Apart from anything else, that would place me and other people in danger and risk me being hurt all over again.

Acceptance I can do and it frees me up to have healthy relationships, because I accept what those people are capable of and set my boundaries accordingly.

 

[EveHarrington]

My thoughts on this whole "God" thing....... If God wanted us to FORGIVE our abusers, and he is an all...

Makes me wonder why man has chosen to put the burden on the "victim" to forgive rather than to simply straight up say "hey now all you humans! Don't do each other wrong, and if you do, make it right, apologize, make amends!" Or maybe he did and the message got lost along the way?

I can't help but wonder exactly when "forgiveness" was inserted into religious indoctrination (as we currently understand it). Was it during the time of serf-dom when the powerful upperclass used any means necessary to control the underlings? I mean it would make sense as it puts the burden on the lower classes to accept whatever crap their dealt while the landowners just got richer. Underlings accept, the powerful can do what they want without consequence.

It is interesting to know that not all tenets of the Christian faith date back to Jesus or even the writing of the bible. There's an essential part of the current Catholic faith that wasn't incorporated until the last 150ish years or so (but I won't mention it here as to not get off topic). Point being, ideas are added to religion all the time so just because a certain religion says that's what God wants-------does that make it true? Or even, the current idea of forgiveness may not even be the true religious meaning------it may have been butchered by man.

I'll stop now before I get too far ahead of myself lol.

 

[scout86]

For me forgiveness means restoring the relationship to the point before the offence occurred.

That makes sense to me. And I like what you said about your relationship with your husband and the reasons you forgive each other. Maybe there are difference kinds of forgiveness? (Truly don't know!) When I think back to the person who molested me.....I don't think he feels remorse. I don't think he cares what effect that had on me. I don't think he feels he needs my forgiveness.......... Makes it hard for me to forgive him! From my own theological perspective, do I want him to burn in Hell for all eternity? Well, some days, yeah, maybe a little, but really and seriously, no, that's not what I want. I want him to have a chance to seek forgiveness and make amends. Do I think that's likely? Heck no. But I won't slam the door in his face.

If, though, I devote my life to hurting him, planning for his downfall, wishing to get even, if I let my hate for him grow and fester, then I give him WAY more power than he deserves and I do myself more harm than good. That's the part of "forgiveness" that might be about me.

 

[Sandstone]

I've thought about the way we teach our children about the concept of "saying sorry" So often I see a parent leap in and demand a child apologises to another, extract a grudging and insincere apology and consider the matter is resolved. I'm not sure that does anything to enable understanding about personal harm. There is no actual sorrow or regret on the part of the offender. I'm groping my way here to saying that justice and forgiveness are two separate things, which need not come together for either to be valid.

So I can want someone who has criminally assaulted me to be brought to justice, for many reasons. I may, or may not forgive them. I may or may not be angry towards them. In human society those three things are separate. My understanding of the Christian concept of god's forgiveness is that he offers a free pardon, so the forgiveness comes integrally with avoidance of justice and anger, because that justifiable anger and punishment has been placed elsewhere. Now, I don't see that as being a relevant model for human society. We have laws about criminal assault for the protection of the weak, and society as a whole. So even if I do "forgive" that person, it is still right for them to be brought to trial.

 

[scout86]

My understanding of the Christian concept of god's forgiveness is that he offers a free pardon, so the forgiveness comes integrally with avoidance of justice and anger,

I'm not an expert, so maybe I'm wrong. My understanding is that you're right, it's "free". Free for the asking anyway. But my understanding is you have to ask and you have to recognize the need to be forgiven. One would hope that sincerely understanding you have done something you need to be forgiven FOR would lead to a change in behavior. I think what that means in actual practice (again, my opinion) is that a lot of people don't get forgiven by God. Because they don't sincerely see their need for it.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I guess I see the concept of forgiveness as something separate from faith, or that both can exist independently from one another.

I do as well though it is intresting to see how one of faith sees it and one not of faith. I think humans have turned it a religous thing when its not.

For me forgiveness means restoring the relationship to the point before the offence occurred.

I see it the same way.

Lets use my mom since she's on my mind and a great example. Forgiving her, in my opinion, would also include some effort to restore a relationship with her. To forgive her wrong doings would leave no reason to heal from them, I just forgave them.

But acceptence, in my opinion, would be saying to myself that my past, as horrible as it was, happened. There is no changing it. So what am I going to do move foward in a positive direction today? Its the same example I gave about totaling my dad's car. It has no forgiving or restoring of relationship in it or anything about the relationship. It has to do with not dwelling in the past and keeping your eyes foward.

Either or would help a person but each are different so just like one doesnt have to forgive to heal, one can heal with forgiveness but it is not a must or even as the title says, that it can help you heal. For me, it would complicate an already complicated subject. So it may not help one heal.

But it shouldnt be tied to religon as one can forgive another and not be a religous person. Humans do it all of the time. It can be tied to religon but it is a seperate subject really. Therefore when one speaks of forgiving another, they arent necessarly speaking in religous terms.

 

[loner mcdonald]

Now that I have your attention, My "F" word has 11 letters. It is the word forgiveness. In my humble...

right on good for you.i hope every body reads this. loner