When A Narcissist Is 'good'

[shimmerz]

My kids, all grown up, have a father that is a nasty piece of narcissist. I would venture to say he is beyond narcissistic.

I have noticed that my kids talk about the things that confuse them.... 'Dad did this (and it is definitely wrong) but then pause and follow it up with a 'don't get me wrong, I am so grateful because he.....'

The hook with their father, is that he has financially supported them all of their lives. They live a VERY privileged lifestyle because of him and it has been seared into their heads that he is allowed to do anything because of what he has done for the kids. It is like they have this program running in them that says 'I would be nothing without Dad.' It is so deep that if anyone says anything about their father, they immediately come to his defense - in a rabid dog kind of way.

I am just wondering if any of you have a narcissist in your life that you may have feelings of anger about, or some sort of ambiguity, yet when you express those feelings there is a 'but they have done this for me so it is alright.'

If someone does something nice, can it be a platform for a narcissist to get away with stuff that you wouldn't allow most people to? Is it possible that the pause and then making an excuse for that person by listing off the nice stuff could actually be a clue that someone has set you up to ingest crap when you shouldn't be?

Just wondering...

 

[LanaD]

My take is that narcissists are likeable by definition, so when they do something nasty and follow it with a smile or with a treat you're left thinking they're actually not that bad. The case of your kids' father seems like one of "buying affection."

 

[Deleted member 541]

My best friend has been married to a narcissist for 33 yrs. She complains that her husband has set up her and her children(grown adults) in a life style that they can't escape and now are trapped in. They have the best cars, the newest phones, the best clothes, the best of the best of everything. The adult children pay for NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!! Yet, he does things that make your head spin, you roll your eyes, you know is wrong and yet no one, no one says anything to him. If by chance they do...... Then he turns the argument all around and everything becomes someone else's fault or it's an entirely different subject that they are arguing about.

There is something that is called the "honeymoon phase" with a narcissist also. They will have a bad phase where their behavior is just awful, followed by the honeymoon phase, where they will shower a person with good. It doesn't last long, just enough to drag you in and then the other shoe drops again. Vicious cycle...

I haven't been to my friends home in maybe 10 yrs. She keeps BEGGING me to come for a visit, and I keep telling her that her husband is a f*cking asshole, and if I was ever near him I might unleash, so NO I will not visit. And she knows enough that if she comes my way for a visit, she had better leave him home, or she won't be seeing me.

How she stays with him is beyond me.....

 

[shimmerz]

It is like they have this program running in them that says 'I would be nothing without Dad.'

This doesn't match

The case of your kids' father seems like one of "buying affection."

This.
And that is kind of the point I am getting to. I think there is a tendency to minimize what is actually happening to justify falling into the trap. And attacking anyone who calls it for what it is.

When the 'good deed' is dependent on everyone minimizing the screwed up stuff going on, it becomes a psychologically devastating issue. A good deed should not be used as a rationalization to dismiss abusive and belittling behaviour towards others.

Yet, he does things that make your head spin, you roll your eyes, you know is wrong and yet no one, no one says anything to him. If by chance they do...... Then he turns the argument all around and everything becomes someone else's fault or it's an entirely different subject that they are arguing about.

Yes. This. ^^ Everything seems good in the victims lives as long as they don't say anything bad. If there is any type of push back towards the narcissist, all hell breaks loose. So the victim must change their internal reality to avoid the punishment incurred if one questions 'the rules' of the game. And the rules are, in fact, put in place ONLY by the narcissist.

This is what I am trying to get to.

 

[claroscuro]

I think it is.

My narcissist father actively ingrained this in his family. Any form of negativity toward him was met with a "you're being ungrateful" response from him. Small things, such as preferring not to have ice in a soft drink when that's the way he intended to serve it was met with that response, or even getting hurt if he stepped on your foot. He'd make you feel guilty for even the slightest thing if he perceived that as criticism, and then withheld his "affection". This discouraged any actual criticism of him, changed the way we responded to his behavior, and eventually normalized both his behavior and our conditioned responses to it.

A manifestation of the fawn response?

 

[scout86]

I've never had that experience, but it's been part of a few conversations with my T. A narcissist might "love" their children, but mostly in a way where they can say "look how wonderful I am, I produced these kids, I do all this great stuff for these people, etc". They only live others when the others reflect back on them the way they want.

I think the point of the nice behavior is exactly what you've described. It's not out of real love, it's a gilded trap. A person can walk away from that kind of trap, but at a price. JMO, but it's worth the price. And a person can walk away and not feel ungrateful, if they can see the motive behind the behavior.

 

[ladee]

Describing the sperm donar and my ex husband. Neither had money to sway the verdict, but enough guilt and shame to make up for it
It is crazy making to be in it. I ended up having to find my own reality , no easy task when so conditioned to feel obligated to justify the insanity to survive

I can spot one in a crowd today and stay very far away. They are charming and lethal.

 

[Abstract]

My father was a narcissistic and I'm pretty sure qualified for clinical Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I hate using the word "they" in contexts like this but will to make it easier to write this out. They are often successful I think. Although apparently not always at all. Driven for attention in a life and death way and often charismatic to an extent. Also lacking in empathy so able to trample all in front of them to get what they want.

Yes, I felt driven to defend my father in certain ways for a long time. I think that was partly to do with the "good" but really I think it was more to do with what he trained into us.

The first is you can't criticise them or even question them. When you grow up with it it becomes ingrained to defend them. You are trained to serve their needs and provide narcissistic supply. That's why we so often end up with codependency issues. That means we often can't admit to ourselves the full extent of the bad. It creates a dilemma as usually that parent is internalised. Part of this is also about growing up with someone making us responsible for all they feel. This creates enormous inner turmoil when trying to extricate ourselves and see what is right and wrong.

I'm not sure what your ex is like but my father was very good at appearing to be moral or have good intentions while it was all totally about self gratification and excusing his bad behaviour. It can be very hard to get past that veil of deception when you have been indoctrinated and threatened from birth. Things he claimed were about building character were actually about control. Things that he said were about honesty were about undermining us and inflating his ego. We are after all just objects in a narcissists world. Only useful when we are feeding their image, needs and reputation.

The charm dropped at home of course but also to people who couldn't easily answer back. People who fell under him at work. waiters etc. Narcissistic rage is not a pretty sight. An overgrown toddler having a temper tantrum. There is no end to the places that that can lead to.

It might just be the financial stuff for your children but my instinct is to think it might be way more than that. My story is a bit different though as my father used financial issues to control us too. The financial aspect of this may be bigger for them. I hope they can break free from those chains soon! And I hope none of them start identifying with him. My sister did that and that usually leads to another set of problems. Horrible for you to hear what they are saying I'm sure!

 

[shimmerz]

It might just be the financial stuff for your children but my instinct is to think it might be way more than that.

Yes, it is much MUCH bigger than the financial stuff. It would be a book if I typed it all. At the end of the day it translates (in words) to them saying 'how could I possibly say anything bad about a man who made us wealthy.... when certainly we couldn't have done that without him'.

They forget being punched in the back seat of the car when they were 4 because they said that they loved their mother. It hasn't gotten better since, they have just learned how to adapt. So they pause ..... because of this....

but really I think it was more to do with what he trained into us.

I have watched the training process. Tried to speak out against it. The 'good', I think, is just a tangible thing that can be used to cover the abuse.

I want to throw up every time I hear from them about how lucky they are to have a father like him. Because they owe him so much. And I think that is the schtick. Does someone give so that they can be treated differently and made to sit on a pedestal if one is not narcissistic?

 

[scout86]

Someone might do the same things, superficially, if they were very insecure and felt they had to earn love and esteem from others. It might look the same, if you don't look too close, but the motives are nearly opposite and the response to expressions of appreciation is different too. Maybe this is why some people think narcissism comes from a lack of self esteem. I think nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[Deleted member 541]

@scout86 Actually they have very little self esteem. They belittle and put down others to BUILD themselves up. They will always do things for others ONLY when they will receive something in return.

Yes, may of them are in places of power, so that they can dominate, belittle, control, with hatred and lack of respect.

The man that I spoke about it this post is a Dr. One of his employees is severely overweight. She also has Poly Cystic disease. He calls her the most vile names. Calls her FAT, BALD, DISGUSTING ect, ect. He does this in front of other employees and in front of his patients.

He is in debt way over his eyeballs, and I mean close to a million dollars, struggling to pay payroll at times and yet just bought a boat for 150000.00 and tells his wife that IF he goes down, he will do it his way. No empathy. Basically they are bullies.. Bullies have no self esteem either, they have a SELF IMPOSSED ego by bullying others.

The world would be better off without him IMO!!!!!

 

[EveHarrington]

Can I ask the age range of your kids?