Sexual Assault How To Tell If A Man You Know Could Rape You.

[void]

Disclaimers: I am a man but I am not anti-male. I am, however, 100% anti-rape...in all circumstances. I am 100% pro-consent. Please do not consider this thread to be anti-male. This thread is only anti-rape.
The following is only my opinion. I could be wrong. Do not substitute my judgment for your own. I welcome disagreement/debate and comment. Thank you.

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First of all, I am defining rape as ANY and ALL sexual contact that you do not clearly consent to in advance. A broad definition perhaps, but the one I'm using in this thread.

So, I know, that there are many women(and men as well) who have been raped and live in fear of it happening again. I deeply relate to the fear and the inability to trust and you all have my deepest compassion for the suffering you have endured. All of you desperately want to avoid ever being raped again(who wouldn't understand?)...but how can you tell if a man you know could rape you?!


Key warning signs:

1. If a man disregards the need for and value of your consent on ANY issue.
2. If a man minimizes the value of your views in favor of his own views on ANY issue.
3. If a man uses pressure to compel you to change your clearly stated consent or lack of consent on ANY issue.
4. If a man creates a differential of power over you in ANY aspect of your relationship....ie. he takes control or makes sure he has control and you lose control
5. If he steps on your toes, yes, physically.
6. If you make plans and he simply changes them.
7. If he corners you and seems to enjoy it.
8. If he hurts your feelings and seems to enjoy it.
9. If he embarrasses/causes you shame and seems to enjoy it.
10. If he talks/shouts over you in an argument to force his way.

Rape is NOT about sex.... it is only and always about the imposition of a man's WILL in contravention of your WILL.
Rape is NOT about pleasure or sexual desire.... it is only and always about overpowering the victim's will....subjugating and controlling them.

Trust your gut and face any red flags.
Your will does matter....no one has the right to violate it.
Friendship and/or love does not try to dominate or force.
Be safe.

 

[Stickler]

...What about women who sexually assault or become the battering partners?

I'd guess the same sort of creepy boundary-pushing goes on.

Ooh...edit:
http://www.survivorsmanchester.org.uk/impact/legacy-issues/grooming/

 

[void]

Thanks to Mod. for moving this thread.

@Stickler

I know that women rape and abuse others. This thread does not intend to negate that terrible fact. The focus I chose for the thread is Men who violate consent in this way. All rapist, including female rapists violate consent and boundaries. All rapist are wrong.

 

[Gs172003]

Define "clear consent".

 

[Friday]

Key warning signs:

Actually, I'd have to disagree with most of these.

Not only from personal experience having dated & have known men who did many of these things, that in no way showed a predilection for sexual assault or rape... But also having some of those exact same things in my own personal bag of tricks / behavioral patterns, and I know I don't sexually assault or rape people.

In point of fact, some of them are quite healthy things (like respecting your own views enough not to be swayed by another having conflicting views #2. Just because they're my views on an issue doesn't necessarily make them more right than his views on an issue. And vice versa. For example I may completely disregard a boyfriends views on parenting, when the child in question? Is mine. Just like he may completely disregard my views on employment, when the job in question? Is his. Purely being involved with someone -from casually dating to avowed marriage- doesn't give the other person all access rights to our lives, nor place their views on any issue on equal footing as our own. Sometimes there will be. Sometimes there won't be. It's just not that black and white.)

***

1. If a man disregards the need for and value of your consent on ANY issue.
Not all issues demand or require the consent of another person. There's a big difference between being forced to do something against your will (what I think you're driving at with this one?) and reversing it to assume that any issue that you don't give your express consent to is bad juju.


2. If a man minimizes the value of your views in favor of his own views on ANY issue.
(See above)


3. If a man uses pressure to compel you to change your clearly stated consent or lack of consent on ANY issue.
That can also be known as a discussion, debate, coming to a compromise, negotiating, or seduction. Depending on what the topic & outcome is. And it's a very normal part of most relationships.


4. If a man creates a differential of power over you in ANY aspect of your relationship....ie. he takes control or makes sure he has control and you lose control.
Completely disagree. There are natural power differentials in every relationship. The vast majority of them healthy & necessary things, and many of them both valued and wanted by both people.


5. If he steps on your toes, yes, physically.
Then 99% of the men I've danced with are rapists.


6. If you make plans and he simply changes them.
While this is definitely control-freak? Control-freak all by itself doesn't even indicate abuser, much less rapist.


7. If he corners you and seems to enjoy it.
<grin> I actually love being cornered! :sneaky: Some people like to chase. Some people like to be chased. Molto Bene! Vive la diffèrence!! Conversely, I can think of about a dozen completely innocuous other examples. Probably the most common non-flirty / non-foreplay one being people who need to use this for work; reporters/journalists, lobbyists, etc.


8. If he hurts your feelings and seems to enjoy it.
While this is straight up abusive? Not all abusers are rapists.


9. If he embarrasses/causes you shame and seems to enjoy it.
Dickish, most of the time, to be sure. But not all assholes are even abusive, much less prone to sexual violence.

And then there are the times when embarrassment or shame is actually warranted. Whether it's actually enjoyed (like embarrassing a liar in court by exposing their lies), or SEEMS to be enjoyed (like your partner is actually thrilled you understand now that XYZ is no bueno, not that you're embarrassed that you did the no bueno thing), purely having been embarrassed or shamed doesn't actually mean there was nothing worth being embarrassed or ashamed of. So there are also times where causing either is actually the right thing to do / not a dick move at all.


10. If he talks/shouts over you in an argument to force his way.
This can just be a communication style. One of several. Whether it's "loudest wins", or someone has impulse control issues (hello ADHD! :D) and interrupts & talks over people on a regular basis, purely out of excitement, not intending disrespect, or whether they tend to shout and storm about until they're done, or are just socially awkward... Or, or, or, or. Really. I know far more people who do this, than who don't. And there are dozens of -completely harmless- reasons why.

***

I think the problem I'm seeing, here, is one of reverse engineering.

Sort of like self confidence is a trait of narcissism, but not everyone who is self confidant is also a narcissist. Squares and rectangles. All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. These may definitely be traits that rapists have... They're just also traits that almost everyone else has, to varying degrees, too.

 

[NoWhereKnowWhere]

I can't say the d bag who raped me had any of these characteristics. He was just someone I knew who saw an opportunity and was a cock enough to take it.

If the crazy high statistics for rape and sexual assault are right there's got to be a few really f*cking busy rapists out there. Or..... Maybe more people are capable than we like to imagine. Probably there's a lot of one time rapists out there and probably we all know someone who's raped or sexually assaulted someone but we just don't know. The thing with vilified pictures of what rapists should be or act means that when your best mate Jeff rapes someone you don't believe the victim because "I've known Jeff for 20years he's a great guy and there's no way he's capable of it!" It must be a false accusation...but they can't all be false accusations! And false accusations of rape are at about the same or lower than false accusations of other crimes. But no one believes their friend, brother or college roommate is capable. Painting rapist to be this or that means that when people are raped by an "other" people don't believe them because it doesn't fit with their world view.

 

[EveHarrington]

I can't say the d bag who raped me had any of these characteristics. He was just someone I kne...

Yes, rapists must look like rapists, act like rapists------24/7.

 

[Sighs]

Not to mention the inherent victim blaming in assuming that "rapists" are any easier to recognize than say "people who don't like country music" or "people who love pancakes".

@void - I'm sure your intentions were good but there are miles and miles of internet conversations on why telling women how to avoid being raped is not appropriate. And just as many miles of conversations on the "yes, but not all men" mentality as well. (Hence you felt the need to point out that thread is not anti-male.)

 

[void]

@Sighs

"on why telling women how to avoid being raped is not appropriate."

Why is it inappropriate?

 

[void]

@missy meier

Clear consent "means…the voluntary agreement of the complainant to engage in sexual activity" without abuse or exploitation of "trust, power or authority", coercion or threats."
~Wikipedia

How do you view the issue of "clear consent"?

 

[NoWhereKnowWhere]

Anna Akana On The Problem With Telling Women Not To Get Raped

Stop Telling Women How to Not Get Raped

 

[joeylittle]

Why is it inappropriate?

Because it places the burden of defense on the victim.

The saying often invoked is "How can we eradicate rape? Get rapists to stop raping."

This link from a slutwalk blog gives a pretty powerful list. Please, read it:

How to prevent rape

The comedian Sarah Silverman did her own version not that long ago, too.

Ten Rape Prevention Tips

1. Don't put drugs in women's drinks
2. When you see a woman walking by herself, leave her alone
3. If you pull over to help a woman who's car has broken down, remember not to rape her.

'Rape prevention tips' go viral. Upset men

Women are inundated with messages about how to avoid being raped. It starts when we are quite young, and it just never stops. I appreciate that there's been dialogue lately about how to reverse that paradigm because, on a personal level - yeah, I get it. Be safe. OK. Being safe doesn't always keep you from getting raped. But it can keep you from feeling like you are allowed to walk the planet as a person with rights.

It's exhausting to be on the lookout 24/7. Giving women more things to be on the lookout for, that's just adding more exhaustion. However - for people (women and men) who have somehow avoided all the lessons about 'how to not get raped' - it's important, yes, that they understand they need to protect themselves. Of course.

But it should be OK for me to go out to a bar and have a beer. It should be OK for me to park my car and walk into my apartment building. I shouldn't be afraid that I'm courting rape, if I have friends with dominant streaks, or if I wear a skirt, or if I need to take the train at night.

The messages we are given, when you add them all up, basically say that it's not OK to do any of those things, because you may be raped. So, that's the long-winded reason why some women will tell you that we don't need any more lessons on how to avoid being raped.