Sexual Assault How To Tell If A Man You Know Could Rape You.

[Stickler]

https://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/meet-the-predators/

In fact, they are busy guys.

---Of the 120 rapists in the sample, 44 reported only one assault. The remaining 76 were repeat offenders. These 76 men, 63% of the rapists, committed 439 rapes or attempted rapes, an average of 5.8 each (median of 3, so there were some super-repeat offenders in this group). Just 4% of the men surveyed committed over 400 attempted or completed rapes.---

As regards the female predators...Just wanted to mention they happen, as their victims seem to get invalidated much.

 

[Stickler]

https://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/24/predator-redux/

In a follow up, the author notes:

---Guys with rigid views of gender roles and an axe to grind against women in general are overrepresented among rapists. That won’t come as a surprise to most readers here, I expect. But it is important confirmation. Guys who seem to hate women … do. If they sound like they don’t like or respect women and see women as impediments to be overcome … they’re telling the truth. That’s what they think, and they will abuse if they think they can get away with it.---

 

[Neverthesame]

I'm a little surprised by this thread and some of the ideas brought forward as "advice" and not in the good way.

Rape is a very serious issue, which the majority of this forum, sadly. Knows better than I do.

This idea that one can somehow spot one easily from a safe distance, by looking for slightly aggressive personality traits. Or as @Friday so eloquently put it, bad dancer's. Would be laughable were any aspect of sexual assault funny.

But the fact is, it's not that simple. This is also why posts such as these are offensive to me. If it were really so easy to spot a rapist, there would be almost no rape.

Everyone.... Or more accurately, all men. Any man who rudely brushes past you in hurry, fails to say "thank you" for holding a door for him, or any other minor dickish things. These men would all be rapists.

I also find it rather disturbing when it comes to this topic, suddenly women aren't our social equals anymore. They become helpless waifs. Why?

With some topics, such as Olympic sports. Gender segregation makes sense. Athletes at the peak of fitness are going to be handicapped by their physiology.

But that's not what we're talking about here. In everyday life, men and women are of wildly varying fitness. From the super skinny, super muscular to obese. And everything in between.

To use @Friday for another analogy. (Sorry Friday. You just fit this too well, I'll try to find someone else next time.) Friday is a US Marine. I am not. I don't know her personally, but I think it's safe to say she's probably in better shape than I am. I'm just a skinny person.
I'll bet, if we were to get into a physical fight. She'd probably beat the hell out of me. This does not mean she is immune to attack from me. But, if she sees me coming, I'm probably going to need the ambulance, not her.

But here's the thing. "If she sees me coming". Just because she is capable of defending herself against me. Doesn't make it her fault, if I somehow win the fight.

1. If a man disregards the need for and value of your consent on ANY issue.

Any issue?
If I come across a woman who is unconscious and bleeding from her leg. The blood is spurting out in time with her pulse. I guess I would be a rapist, as I'd rather attempt to stop the bleeding, not watch her bleed to death in front of me.
But, if I've not been given explicit consent, then I am indeed putting my hands on a woman without her having said it was ok to have done so.

2. If a man minimizes the value of your views in favor of his own v

This one really happened by the way. When I worked in retail, I had a customer who refused to let the women I worked alongside to help her because "women don't know anything about cars. Only men can." I'll put the full story somewhere else, but long story short, she was never served by a man when I was there to do anything about it. Because I think her views on women were wholly offensive.
That's 2 I've broken so far, let's keep going shall we?

3. If a man uses pressure to compel you to change your clearly stated consent or lack of consent on ANY issue.

This is another one that really happened.
Intoxicated woman trying to cross a busy highway with several wounds to her bare feet.
I blocked her way, then told her. "No ma'am you cannot cross this road. It is too dangerous. Please come with me to the ambulance, or I will have an officer carry you into it. Then you'll spend the night in cells.
After a scuffle we restrained her to the gurney, when she was medically cleared at the ER later, she was taken to cells to sleep it off. I didn't care then and don't care now, about her "consent". Had I let her go, she'd be a red smear on a highway.
Wow, I'm shaping up to be a predator. Disconcerting...

4. If a man creates a differential of power over you in ANY aspect of your relationship....ie. he takes control or makes sure he has control and you lose control

This is another one I've done. I won't go into too much detail, as this isn't that kind of website :oops::p

An ex of mine used to enjoy being tied up. Being of those kind of people who never do anything half assed. I am the proud owner of a very real pair of handcuffs. That was a fun $100 investment. Hee hee. I believe she still has one of the keys.

But during the umm... "festivities" She was very much under my control. That was the point.

Though to be fair, I wore the cuffs a few times myself. :D

5. If he steps on your toes, yes, physically.

Friday beat me to it again. I have two left feet.

6. If you make plans and he simply changes them.

Because nothing ever happens out of the blue, right?
Done this too.

7. If he corners you and seems to enjoy it.

Friday got this one as well.

Yup, one of the dangers of dating me, I might pop up out of nowhere for a kiss.
Wow, good thing you wrote this, I'm a terrible person, it seems.

8. If he hurts your feelings and seems to enjoy it.

Not proud of this, but I have said mean things in the heat of anger I shouldn't have. I thought it was right at the time. But after I'd calmed down. Realising what an asshole I'd been.
But there is a very serious distinction between saying something cruel, and raping someone.

9. If he embarrasses/causes you shame and seems to enjoy it.

You've never told an embarrassing about someone else?
I could tell a few tales of female friends and family, that would make them blush. Yeah it's kind of rude, but they usually have several about me, to keep the playing field even.

10. If he talks/shouts over you in an argument to force his way.

Woman I worked for here in my little loading dock, chose to walk under a load suspended 20' in the air that I was bringing down, because it wasn't secured properly. I told her no, she shoved around me. I yelled at her. I even called her an idiot. She argued, I yelled over her.

I chased after her, to keep yelling at her. We both watched the load on the lift, shift, then 2500lbs of canned food came crashing to the ground where she had shoved past me.
She apologised for what she had done. She almost died a horrible death.

But that's 10 out of 10. Hmm. I thought maybe I'd fit 3 or 4 of these, honestly.

Does this make me a rapist? Somehow I don't think so.

I have more but this is long enough for now.

 

[LostGentleman]

...What about women who sexually assault or become the battering partners?

As regards the female predators...Just wanted to mention they happen, as their victims seem to get invalidated much.

Thank you :'')

(Now I'll go finish my heartattack somewhere lmao
My fault, for entering the topic, i know xDDD)

But again, thank you

 

[void]

IME, the best, and only way, to tell whether a man is 'capable' of raping you is if he already h...

Perhaps.
I have heard some victims of SA say that in hindsight there were red flags/warning signs when they try to sort through the situation in their mind.
.... and of course, there are also others who never saw it coming and even with hindsight cannot find anything.
Can't anything of value be learned from the red flags that previous victims have identified?

 

[LostGentleman]

I have heard some victims of SA say that in hindsight there were red flags/warning signs when they try to sort through the situation in their mind.

It is not uncommon for the victims to try to find where they went wrong. That includes finding "signs they missed".

In a way, doing so, there is some underlying desire of being able to regain some control for the future. «If I know where I missed, and if it is due to my own stupidity, then I can make it never ever happen again, and I have control over future events»
But that means creating within us a permanent guilt trip, that is very destructive. We are blaming ourselves, for something we had no blame over.


It's terrible
:')

 

[void]

@joeylittle :)

In every crime, including rape, there are @ least 3 parties which are relevant.
The Victim
The Perpetrator
The Society(in part represented by the LEOs and the Courts)

Our Society is greatly divided on the issue of Rape, some of us are outraged by the ineffectual behavior of the Justice System, and many others(sadly)don't seem to care.
Imo, the Justice System lets most victims down....badly:mad:.

The Perpetrators will never ever change and will never stop and so what options remain to prevent future Rape???
The current application of so-called Justice IS NOT STOPPING this crime from happening and so what can anyone do???
If the Justice system and the fvcking Perp's will not change then what???

You explained that my thread contents are inappropriate .....

"Because it places the burden of defense on the victim.

The saying often invoked is "How can we eradicate rape? Get rapists to stop raping."

That sounds as if you think that I am saying that the victim shoulders SOLE responsibility to prevent Rape!!!!!

Let me be clear, no woman(or man) should be Raped EVER, she/he should be able to do anything they wish or go anywhere anytime and never have to fear or fend of unwanted behaviors.

BUT @joeylittle (and others who feel the same way).....SINCE the Perp's and the LEOs/Courts WILL NOT protect the Victims(or potential victims) then the ONLY option if for the victim is to protect themselves or at least try.

Obviously, the focus should be on 'getting rapists to stop raping' as they are the problem in the first place....BUT NO ONE IS stopping them.

The Victim should not be burdened AT ALL, but no one else is helping and nothing is changing for the better.:(

 

[Sighs]

Can't anything of value be learned from the red flags that previous victims have identified?

My answer to this question would be "no.". I say that because trying to identify "red flags" involves a jump from "this particular rapist" to "all rapists". And I think that is unhelpful. Rapists as a group are as varied as any other group of human beings. Again, there are miles and miles of material on this theme. People have made careers out of trying to predict criminal behaviour before it occurs. Psychologists and psychiatrists struggle to predict the likelihood of known criminals re-offending much less potential offenders.

 

[Sideways]

Can't anything of value be learned from the red flags that previous victims have identified?

This is where I think I differ slightly from some of the earlier posts, because yes, I think we can learn and reevaluate our own safety and healthy boundary situations.

There are rapes that are spontaneous, from a stranger, unpredictable, dumb luck. There is nothing you could have done differently that would have altered the outcome. Checking your letterbox at 3pm and it comes from nowhere. Nothing anyone could do.

But it's a bit of a spectrum.

At the other end of the spectrum: yes, perhaps I shouldn't have gotten blind drunk, stripped down to my birthday suit and partied my way through the Sex Offenders Shopping Mall.

Mostly it's somewhere in between. And to me, it's not about victim-blaming, it's about a healthy dose of street smart.

Fact: I should be able to go to sleep at night with my front door wide open to catch the breezes. Reality: I live in a dodgy neighbourhood and even though theft is wrong and is a crime, sleeping with the front door wide open? You just don't.

So, keeping a balance between what I should be able to do, and weighing that up with the reality of sexual assault, and learning how to take care of myself without compromising my own freedoms too much.

And it cuts both ways. Even though the majority (and it's a big majority) of rape victims are women, I think education about sexual assault should be directed equally at men. Not because they're too often the perpetrator, but because this is happening to their wives, sisters, daughters -which makes it their problem, and they should be outraged by that and be just as motivated to bring about change as women (shout out to the many men who already are outraged by it!!). Even though the victim and perpetrator roles may be largely gender-aligned, this is a problem for everyone, and better education and mutual respect all round is appropriate and necessary (IMO). But how to predict a rapist, or murderer, or, or, or...nup, I dont buy that. Maybe we can explain it in retrospect, but that's a big difference to labelling people pre-crime.

 

[joeylittle]

That sounds as if you think that I am saying that the victim shoulders SOLE responsibility to prevent Rape!!!!!

You didn't say so directly; your post implied it, by sheer omission. I'm glad to hear you say that it's not what you believe.

Obviously, the focus should be on 'getting rapists to stop raping' as they are the problem in the first place....BUT NO ONE IS stopping them.

I believe there is some small positive change that comes from talking about rape from both sides. It might be the seven year old child who is being changed, but still - that's change. So you say no one is stopping them - I say, people all over are engaged in stopping them, by changing the dialogue around rape.

Do you think the letter written by the woman who was raped by the Stamford student would have been written five years ago? Or that it would go viral on the internet? I don't believe it would have been. I believe such statements are a result of a gradual shift, and that shift doesn't come about by putting all the focus on how to avoid getting raped. It comes about by putting the focus ALSO on the rapist. Please, note: ALSO. Not "instead of"

The Perpetrators will never ever change and will never stop and so what options remain to prevent future Rape???

This is black and white thinking, and not helpful. Just because change is hard, that doesn't mean change is impossible. There are two options. One: continue to teach people how to stay safe in a world that has evil in it. And two, work harder to teach people that rape is not the fault of the victim.

Because society has already given me a war-and-peace sized book about how to avoid being raped. That novel is why so many women believe it is their fault, by the way. Changing the messaging to include why the rapist is responsible, that will go a long way towards helping survivors.

So, when I take that 3 inch novel off the shelf - I appreciate it when I can find at least a chapter in it that says there are ways we can talk about changing the culture of rape as well, and that has to do with being loud and clear that it is not only the woman who has to keep herself safe - it is the man who has to stop raping.

(I'm sticking with those gender assignments because they are the ones you are using - and I also believe the bulk of this conversation is about male-on-female rape, specifically. That doesn't negate the fact that any gender can rape anyone).

You don't have to agree with me, but I wish you would understand what I'm trying to say. I understand where you are coming from, I really do. But you are about 10 years behind where the conversation is, and we are all 50 years behind where the conversation needs to be.

Think about it: is there a reason why your post did not address the ones who step on toes, but instead addressed only the ones who are stepped on? Do you really believe that there will never be change in the rape culture? Or are you accustomed to taking it for granted that "men will always rape".

Because if you are accustomed to it, you are part of the problem. And it's not hard to become part of the solution.

What would your message to the rapists be?

 

[LostGentleman]

Even though the majority (and it's a big majority) of rape victims are women, I think education about sexual assault should be directed equally at men. Not because they're too often the perpetrator, but because this is happening to their wives, sisters, daughters -which makes it their problem, and they should be outraged by that and be just as motivated to bring about change as women (shout out to the many men who already are outraged by it!!). Even though the victim and perpetrator roles may be largely gender-aligned, this is a problem for everyone, and better education and mutual respect all round is appropriate and necessary

• Standing Ovation Worthy! :tup:

Think about it: is there a reason why your post did not address the ones who step on toes, but instead addressed only the ones who are stepped on?

 

[Sighs]

Because society has already given me a war-and-peace sized book about how to avoid being raped.

:singing::singing::singing:

Yes! This! Exactly this! We are told from the time we can understand language how to behave to "keep ourselves safe".

Who was it that said "men are afraid women will laugh at them - women are afraid men will kill them"?

I have a teenaged daughter. She is now living on campus at University. This is not a theoretical issue for me. She had a late exam last semester. Part of me was annoyed that the Uni scheduled an exam to finish at 9pm. Like - hmph - clearly a man scheduled that exam! Why are they making all those girls walk through the darkened campus? And not all of them live on campus. Some would have had to travel through the city to their homes. I spoke to my daughter about trying to make a plan with other girls to walk together. She said if not she would talk on her mobile while she walked. I immediately said no - don't do that! Have your mobile in your hand with the Campus Safety App emergency call button screen ready so you can press it immediately if you need it. Put your keys in your other hand with the keys splayed out between your fingers. Do not hesitate to strike someone in the face. Walk with your head up - looking around you. Walk purposefully. If you need to pass someone, step off the path if necessary so that in order for them to grab you they would need to take at least one step towards you. Text me the moment you get home. Knowing all the time that stranger rape is in fact less likely than her being assaulted by the nice looking friend of her roommate after a movie and pizza evening.

Sigh! We've been talking about "how women can not get raped" for centuries. This is why it is so important to change the dialogue into "how men can stop raping".

(Acknowledgement to the male victims of rape and to those raped by women. Not trying to dismiss or minimise your experiences, but its the very nature of the gendered debate that is the issue here.)