Relationship Manipulation Or Ptsd? I Don't Walk Away, But I Might Have To...

[NaeNae75]

So, a lot of you know my s/o of 6.5 years is in isolation/"break" mode. But for some reason this time, it seems different. As usual we talk every day and see each other about every other day....mostly to try to maintain "status quo" for the kids.
This is his "normal" time for a break...Every August he asks for one. But this year, for the last month or so he's been not living up to usual expectations. I asked him to finally admit to his parents that he was living here. He's been lying to them for a while now about it. The deal was, if he wanted to not ever get married, that would be okay, but I wanted some other things done in lieu of this....i.e. telling his parent's, us giving each other power of attorney, etc. He has had no answers for any of these things. He's also been basically ignoring me since his son moved in with us in June. This isn't that big of a deal, except he's been ignoring everyone.....so makes me think...PTSD from the added stress.

Well he decided to wait until he was on his way to his reserves weekend to tell me about the "break". He said he had made the decision a few days before that...but we were intimate since then...by his initiation. I asked him why he waited and he told me "so you didn't make a big scene in front of my son". Well.....that wouldn't have happened, so that made me feel like he was manipulating me.

So since this time, we've stayed in contact, but mostly from me doing my normal "initial" contact...a text goodnight...or hope you have a good day. He knows I don't expect him to answer, but he usually does. Plus talking on the phone and seeing each other in person, for stuff for the kids. Again, generally initiated by me bringing up scheduled events.

There has been 2 times he initiated contact. The first was last Sunday. He wanted to stop by and pick up his son's uniforms. The second was Wednesday, when he wanted me to pick his son up from school. First of all, he had told his son in the morning I would be picking him up. When he asked me, he told me if I didn't want to he would ask his tutor. I told him of course I would....but he knows that! He knew when he asked me I wouldn't say no....that's why he told his son I would pick him up 5 hours before he even asked me. So saying he doesn't want me to feel used feels like lip service.....feels like manipulation.

Well...as I stated in another thread....he had big skin issues, I think is from insect bites. Well, he took him to Urgent care Thursday, but they didn't have much to say. My daughter texted asking how it went...he said no real news and he has an appt on Tuesday. So I waited to hear from him because he knew I wanted to know how the Dr went.......crickets. So I called him at 8, no answer. He called me back at 815.

He says, "Hey, what's up?" I say..."I'm frustrated with you....why is it that you had no problem calling me when you wanted me to take LK yesterday, but you don't bother to tell me how he's doing?" He replied, "Well we just got home from tutoring, and I haven't had the chance yet and I didn't text because I was planning on calling you and talking to you about Friday.....but I just walked in so can I call you back?"

When he called back, he told me he "couldn't remember" what he wanted to talk to me about Friday for....and just had idle chit chat. Well, tonight we went to dinner because I wanted to talk to him. Dinner was pretty quiet...with a big Elephant in the room.

On the way to bring him home I asked him why he told his son before he asked me, if he really didn't want me to feel used? He said he didn't know and that he got out of school early today, but he didn't ask me to take him, but left him in after care instead. I asked him if that was what he wanted to talk to me about Friday for. He said yes and that he didn't tell me because he didn't want to be accused of "using me" again. But I told him that since, before I said something, he WAS planning on asking me for something, that in fact the only other time he called was to ask me for something and that he didn't out of pure spite.

He said that I painted him into a corner...I told him that was BS...he painted me/himself into that corner. I said all I asked you is why the only time you call me is because you want something...and that is true, not putting him into a corner. That if he had bothered to call and see how any of us were, or to chat or anything else, I wouldn't have asked him that question. But he once again blamed me and was yelling at me for "doing this to him" and that he wasn't going to waste his time arguing with me about it. WTF???!!!

This feels like TOTAL manipulation to me. That he wants a break, but wants me to be here for him at his beck and call, and when I tell him it is pretty rude of him to only call when he wants something, I'm suddenly the toxic bad guy again... I don't think I can do this anymore. I don't want to cut him off because his son is already hurting badly because of the stuff with his mom right now (abuse/neglect)....but if I continue to take care of everything, I don't think he will ever wake up and see that I'm not the toxic one.....

I feel trapped between a rock and a hard place. I love him, but I'm super disappointed in his behavior right now.... so is this PTSD, manipulation, or guilty conscience? ....or does it even matter?

 

[EveHarrington]

I advise you to set boundaries and enforce them.

Does it matter if this is PTSD? I think the bottom line is that he is very much able to behave differently. I can't help but feel that he doesn't understand that he's now a single father so he has to buck up and be functional for his son. There are a tonne of single mothers on this site who fight through the PTSD for their kids. I think he needs a wake up call-------no longer can he have the luxury of his yearly isolation period. He's gonna have to learn how to fight through it rather than run away. Maybe this sounds harsh, but letting your kid go untreated for bedbugs? That could get his son taken from him and placed in foster care.

 

[hodge]

I can definitely understand your frustration. I'm sorry I don't have the wherewithal to help you sort out this situation. I hope at least you are in counseling to deal with this. It sounds really difficult.

All I can really say from a sufferer's standpoint is that if I hadn't gotten myself into treatment I wouldn't be happily married now for 14 years. The sufferer has a responsibility to the relationship as well as the supporter. If I hadn't progressed in my ability to be real with my partner, taken responsibility for my own actions that alienated us, and thus could have inadvertently encouraged him to leave me, I wouldn't have blamed him. As it turned out, he was as steadfast as you. You deserve better. You deserve to be with someone who will also work on the relationship. I truly hope he becomes that person.

 

[NaeNae75]

I advise you to set boundaries and enforce them.

Does it matter if this is PTSD? I think the bo...

I agree with you whole-heartedly, Eve....I'm trying to figure out what I should do/not to in order not to contribute to the problem. I'm trying to figure out how to handle what I can, without enabling him. How to be an advocate for his son, without overstepping my bounds. Whether or not my relationship survives is tertiary (not even secondary at this point)

He is absolutely driving me crazy because of his unwillingness to see what he is doing and trying to use me as a scapegoat. He's acting like a giant 5 year old right now. I hardly recognize him right now. This isn't the sweet compassionate guy who would sacrifice anything for "our" kids I've come accustomed to for the last 6.5 years. I'm not even sure how to deal with this clown.... I sincerely only want what's best for the kids...and if I bring up anything questioning his actions, he shuts me out and gets belligerent right now.

 

[NaeNae75]

I can definitely understand your frustration. I'm sorry I don't have the wherewithal to help you sort out...

We both get individual counseling as well as couples. But he's been missing a lot of appointments with his VA therapist the last 5 months or so.... normally he is willing to work out our relationship "woes" with me. This is the "weirdest" I've ever seen him. I am so worried about what is going to happen to his son through all of this.

There is a HUGE part of me that wants to take my own space from him. Show him exactly how hard it would be to actually be isolated like he "says" he wants (although his actions tell another story) He just doesn't want the responsibility, it seems. This is also unlike him. He normally is a relatively healthy, responsible, functioning adult. This guy that's in his body right now is a snotty, hurtful, little brat! I just hope he gets this straightened out ASAP.

I just don't want to do the wrong thing. I don't want to walk away too soon and have his son suffer any more than he already is. I don't care what anyone says....he's my son too! I've raised him, and I love him the same as my own kids. It's killing me to see what he is going through. I'm a big girl....I can take my lumps in the meantime, but if I don't advocate for him....who will?

 

[NaeNae75]

I would also like to mention to you both, thank you so much for your support. It means more than what may make sense. Especially from other sufferers. I have a tendency to think that I'm doing stuff all wrong sometimes....so to have you reinforce my "gut" feeling about right/wrong does bring me a certain peace of mind. I will find strength in my weakness right now. Thank you for helping me along with that journey.

 

[Justmehere]

I don't actually think it's manipulation or PTSD. Being a trauma survivor who has dealt with sociopaths, I'm going to own that my bar for manipulation is pretty high though, so take my perspective with a grain of salt.

I think it's a lot of immature behavior that might fit for someone with PTSD who is communicating very poorly with a partner they are taking for granted a bit. I also think it's more than that. I might be way off, and please forgive me if I am, but it seems like to me that you are both trying to do what a lot of people do at times, myself included, that my good friend (who is a therapist by day) calls "trying to read each other's minds." It's a symptom of both sides not holding good boundaries. Not owning what is theirs and not theirs in an adult relationship.

He's doing a whole lot of stuff to try to avoid you from feeling used and/or is kind of being a bit passive aggressive/immature about it. You are doing a whole lot of trying to tell what his intentions are and you are admittedly feeling used. (By the way, I would be feeling crappy about this situation as well.)

I think you are both communicating past each other and making a lot of assumptions about what the other is thinking, what they need and want and are able to do, and sort of missing that you both can only know what's in your own heads, and what you are or are not ok with.

I think you both need to sit down and find a way to communicate what is going on for each of you, and to state what you need practically in a very specific way from the other person. The way you communicated what you needed as an alternative to marriage is an excellent example. Instead of telling him you needed commitment in some vague unclear way, you gave practical info on what that would look like for you. Then he could make a choice about if he is willing to do it or not. That same kind of communication needs to happen about how to handle these issues about what to do when he chooses to isolate or not, and what you need to feel respected and valued during those times. Be specific about what would actually help from him for you to not feel used. He needs to probably do the same quite a bit and stop assuming himself what would lead you to feel used and not.

You are not the bad guy.

Instead of focusing on trying to decipher his intentions and motivations and what is and isn't going on, own what you do know for sure: what you need. Communicate that. Make it clear you can not continue to take care of everything, and hold those boundaries. Start saying no when he asks you to do things, not just yes,yes, yes. You are doing everything, saying yes to everything, and then resenting him for doing what you keep doing.

I don't condone his way of handing this - but he's not posting so I can't tell him to start respecting you more.

You get to make the choice here what you allow and don't allow into your life and what you do and do not say yes to. I think that if you learn to say no more often then you may feel less resentful about doing everything and begin to enjoy the relationship again. Even if the relationship doesn't last, learning to say no to more things, yes even when kiddos are involved, might help in general.

 

[Justmehere]

It's not good that he's avoiding treatment. That is probably playing a huge role in why things are getting worse. I can tell your heart for his son. He needs a healthy dad. Setting boundaries with his dad might be a way to get his dad back into treatment with the support he needs to be the best dad that you and him both wan him to be, and that his son needs to be.

If you need space from him to take care of you, then that's a decent idea. But, I wouldn't do it to try to get back at him and to try to show him what it feels like. As a PTSD sufferer who has personally shut out people from time to time, and as someone who has also been a supporter who has been shut out - it doesn't hit me the same. It's painful, but not the same.

It might be useful though to make it clear that you need xyz to change in the relationship or you need to take space for you needs, and then he knows and he can choose to get support to make the changes or not. It's not about showing him what it's like for you by trying to cause him the same pain, but by being clear what you need to stay, and then letting him feel pain of his own type if doesn't work. He may not may not be fueled by that pain to make some changes - but then something does change for you and perhaps you get to recharge a bit and he gets a better understanding of your limits/boundaries.

 

[GrayOwl]

Being as I and my s/o have much experience along these lines I would like to add to the convo, but I only have a minute. I have to work overnight.
When I get time tomorrow afternoon I'll try to add. My wife of 40 years would be a good one to talk to. Amazing she kept me.

Men don't seem to have strong "motherly" instincts like women do. That doesn't excuse bad behavior or shirking responsibilities though.

I agree with boundaries and safety nets. We are all entitled to fair treatment, meaning you, and those in your care..

Unfortunately ptsd is a difficult animal and a lot of patience is helpful, outline a plan that works for you and those under your care and exercise it, with the least amount of expectations from him - that's not fair but is probably reality for at least the time being.

I have to run for work. I hope others contribute here. There is great wisdom and support on this site.

Take care. Sending wishes for strength & guidance. Sorry I gotta run.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

that's why he told his son I would pick him up 5 hours before he even asked me. So saying he doesn't want me to feel used feels like lip service.....feels like manipulation.

Not necessarly. I do this A LOT. I thought Id ask someone something and got a yes or no (happens more on yes or no or this or that, not like fill in the blank with a several different answers) told his son and then remembered he didnt ask you and asked you and if the tutor would have been it said "sorry son, the tutor will pick you up."

And it can be 5 hours later or 5 days later by the time i remember.

Also, he is your s/o still thats isolated, y'all arent broken up, correct? And his son lives with you, right?

If that's correct, I dont think he is trying to use you at all, or manipulate you. Or being a bad dad.

I fall with @Justmehere on this and I feel that manipulation, at times, gets used way too loosely. Not saying you are, just thowing my 2 cents, my opinion, out there on the subject. Manipulation, generally, is getting someone to so something purposely. One can look like they are manipulating but arent or arent meaning to. And the arent meaning to, i dont think, should be held against a person.

Again, only my opinion.

 

[EveHarrington]

Sorry I don't have better advice. I have an idea of how things would be (more) ideally but no idea how to get there in your particular situation. Part of me wants to say hold out for now until he's in a more receptive place to actually hear what you have to say. But the problem with this is that your feelings would be neglected for the time being. I'd hate for any sort of "confrontation" to push him further into isolation, but what if this isolation period goes on and on and on? Regardless--------I don't think the treatment discussion should wait as therapy could help pull him out of this. Maybe deal with getting consistent treatment now and put off any big decisions until later? Of course your feelings matter very much in all of this so you will be the only one who will be able to determine the best plan of action for you.

 

[NaeNae75]

Also, he is your s/o still thats isolated, y'all arent broken up, correct? And his son lives with you, right?

I'm not even sure at this point...he waivers back and forth about whether we are broken up or not....he doesn't even know. They were living here, but he went back to his other house 3 weeks ago.

So his words some times indicate we are "broken up", but sometimes he says it's just a break and he needs distance from me for now. (space) His actions show he is still "dating" me...ie we spend time together and talk, etc. So I guess, basically, his inability to even tell me what is going on with "us" adds to the instability. It adds fuel to the "feeling used" fire.

But it is a good point about why he would have told me later...I just wish he would have mentioned it to me the night before when we talked. I can see where this could have been an innocent mistake in that case...

But it doesn't take away the fact that the only times he's initiated contact with me the last 2 weeks is when he wants me to do something for him. That's what bothers me the most. I feel like the only time I matter is when he wants something from me. This probably isn't the case, but because of the current situation, it's hard not to feel like that.

Thank you for your thoughts and insight. They are helpful.