Relationship My So/exso Has An Abusive Friend

[Mon15]

Thank you for the post @Mon15, time seems to always be the answer in so many t...

Ouch, the friend has feelings for her too? Yeah, that would bother me too. One thing I've learned, regardless you can't tell them who they can and can't be friends with even if they do try to sabotage the relationship! When I said that about one of his friends (that I was under the impression wasn't a close one), female- also has feelings for him, that caused a big fight! In my defense, I was told at one point that she was basically an acquaintance through his best friend, not a good friend. In my opinion, when things are rocky between us, there is no need for her to act like she is in high school and do things to deliberately piss me off. Yes, I would let it get to me and it still kind of does, but at least now I know that I just need to suck it up and deal with it considering I've already expressed how it makes me feel when she does things that set me off.

 

[TheMinsterman]

Ouch, the friend has feelings for her too? Yeah, that would bother me too. One thing I've learned, regard...

Yeah, he's invasive of what we're discussing (she says because she thinks he is jealous basically, I'd agree, I suspect he would love for us to not be speaking or breaking up very definitively), it bother's me because I think that motivates any sort of "nice" behaviour he may engage in. He may well help sometimes, but it's clear plenty of his behaviours do not.

I'm not really a jealous person, but I obviously am not somebody who takes another person mistreating my SO as being "ok" just because they're nice other times. I've hated the jealousy it has created in me, but that has been more centred around how much time he gets to spend with her when our time has been so much reduced from what it was.

It's such a crappy situation, when me and her are strong and together we can do anything, with everything so unknown and up in the air, everything is so darn unpredictable.

 

[boodle]

Just out but to confirm without too much details, yes abuse is part of her PTSD. She's had a lot...

Hi @TheMinsterman

Thank-you for confirming that. The reason I asked is that my ex suffered from physical and emotional abuse in childhood and also in a previous relationship. This contributed to her CPTSD. I would like to share some of my thoughts with you on my relationship. It may or may not help to clarify your situation. Please note when I use the word abuse here, it relates to physical and emotional abuse. Sexual abuse does not figure.

A pattern I noticed is that on many occasions we had been having a really good time when out of the blue she would trigger at something and verbally attack me with some horrible words and barbed comments about my weaknesses that I had confided in her. The would then shut down and pull away for a few days. This happened on many occasions. I couldn't understand why having a good time would trigger her at first but my thinking now is that when she felt feelings towards me, she associated that with the danger of being abused as she had been abused by people who had supposed to have loved her before. She went into fight or flight mode and therefore attacked me before distancing.

Of course, I did not abuse her, I am a very calm person and practice non-violent communication too. On a few occasions she said she could not communicate with me because I did not do anger. On other occasions she was almost goading me into being angry with her. I found that really strange because I believed the lack of anger would help her to be more comfortable in communicating with me, On reflection, I think the lack of anger made her feel uncomfortable communicating with me as previous relationships right from childhood were full of anger and abuse. In a strange way I think she saw anger and abuse as familiar and therefore strangely comfortable.

I just noticed you mentioned this in an earlier post but my guess was that possibly your SO/exSO has become involved with these abusive friends because it feels strangely familiar. She knows that you are there for her, loving and supportive, but that is possibly unfamiliar to her. She knows that it is not good for her that is why she is communicating with you it is like an addiction which she has to break for herself, she just doesn't really know how to deal with it.

Its just a thought that I'd been pondering while I had been trying to come to terms with my break up last week. The positive thing from your point of view, your SO/exSO IS talking about it to you. I wish you all the very best.

 

[TheMinsterman]

@boodle

Thanks again for the reply, it was very useful. Right now, I genuinely don't know what to think any more, part of me strongly feels there's more to this than she's letting on, the way he's all over her FB with "Happy Birthday Babe xxxxxxx" makes my paranoia twinge and believe that this isn't "just a friendship" she's decided to get herself into and I'm just not being told the whole story. Do I want to be thinking like that? Not really, but my suspicions are raised, it could all be PTSD but the lack of affection for me whilst defending him despite his behaviour, not being willing to see me in person right now (or ever I suspect), the fact he is apparently jealous of me and reads her phone, it's all very, very strange.

She has repeatedly got involved (not necessarily romantically) with abusive men, so it is definitely a pattern. I'm really the first she ever knew who wasn't abusive, it was one of the reasons she was so attracted to me, because I was genuine, I wasn't just out to get what I wanted from her, but I certainly agree there will be a degree of familiarity involved. It's all the hall marks of a abusive relationship (be it friendship or otherwise), he's possessive, aggressive, abusive and controlling, but despite actively stating she is starting to get concerned and knows if she posted this on her radical feminist groups they'd tell her to run she goes back to the "but he has really helped" and other excuses to "balance" out his awful behaviour. As if being nice (when you actively are attracted to somebody, which to me provides motive) is enough to make all the tantrums, jealousy, controlling, making her cry etc is now all acceptable.

A big part will also be the fact she feels so alone down there and fallen out with her previous friends, he's all there is left now. I am sure there is some fear of what she will do if she doesn't have him, but I feel she's going down a very dark path which may not necessarily be one she can get herself out of easily the more she invests. She's shared the fact she has PTSD with him and I am sure plenty of others things, it worries me how easily she's just opened up to an abusive person like that, especially when his solution is just smile and get over it and he shouts at her and calls her stupid.

I don't know about the rules here but he's frankly a massive piece of crap who I suspect will be difficult for her to flush.

Yet, on the flip side of this, she got herself into this, so I know it isn't my responsibility to get her out of it. If she's gotten into something more than a friendship, unfortunately for her, it's going to have a very big impact on our continued communication, because that is a step beyond what I've been led to believe. I've been told things are basically too difficult for her right now re: talking about us, if that's just a cover for "I decided in my PTSD spiral we broke up and got involved with somebody else" then I am frankly done.

If it's just him acting possessive and like she's his when she isn't, then there's the problem there of it massively interfering with any sort of reconciliation between us anyway. We're talking again now but there's no discussion about "us" or any of the very open affection of previous times.

I guess for me there is a frustration that her decision to get involved with this person could have permanently damaged a very long term connection I hold very dear to me, this whole PTSD thing makes me feel powerless enough, this just adds to it. I've been abandoned against my will, I now feel like I'm having her torn from me by this parasite against my will too.

Of course, she is the primary victim of all this, she's in a bond of whatever kind with absolute human garbage who she is allowing to stick around despite his list of awful behaviour, but I am suffering for this choice too. I will be killed inside if I am rejected for somebody like this, I find it so hard to trust, but even if there's not more to this... I have to just watch her destroy herself.

It's heart breaking and I am genuinely not sure how much more I can take, I want to support her but there are lines.

 

[The Albatross]

Yes there are lines - your own boundaries and how/if/when you define the relationship and are available to assist or aid her. Definitely something that needs to be examined and sorted out.

It is irrational that you "will be killed inside" if you are rejected for "somebody like this". Hurt like hell? Yeah sure, but not killed. The thing too you gotta realize is that you can't force the other party of a relationship to do/be something they're not or to guide them toward change and improvement before they are ready.

It is heart wrenching to watch someone take on consequences and be stuck in dysfunction. So far a abusive relationships or dysfunctional ones - lessons are repeated until they are learned. It was easy, for instance, for me to be drawn to the abusive and dysfunctional men because it is what was "familiar" and made me "comfortable" on a subconscious level even though that's not what I wanted at all. She has to want to take actions necessary... until she does, you're way to deep into this and you need to pause/take a time out and get some levity. You can't rescue someone who doesn't want to be rescued. You got one big white knight/hero schema going on I think.

 

[TheMinsterman]

Yes there are lines - your own boundaries and how/if/when you define the relationship and are avai...

Ironically, it probably has been. Her words "I need a friend more than I want or need anything more" right now, so I think that probably makes it quite clear where I stand. It hurts, sure, but she was at least a bit more open today about understanding how I feel and if it was in the reverse she probably would have flipped her lid, so it was nice that she got that I how I was feeling made sense.

In retrospect, that is just going to have to be what I am now, a friend.

There was perhaps a hero schema going on, but it was from the perspective of a boyfriend, I feel it's probably a little different from a friend perspective. It's not my place I guess to say how she behaves around other men any more, I'll just have to listen and let her vent when she needs to now.

I guess now I am in a bit of dilemma, I love her, if she needs a friend I need to think whether I can be that long term, that is where I am very much hung up. That isn't to say she's only worth something if there's a relationship on the table or anything, right now there is no way I could watch her form a relationship with somebody else, in the future if it's clear we are never going to work things out and I've moved on?

Maybe.

Soul searching for me I guess.

 

[The Albatross]

Hmmm. Keep doing self examination.

 

[TheMinsterman]

Hmmm. Keep doing self examination.

I have OCD, self examination is sort of our thing ;)

 

[boodle]

@boodle

Thanks again for the reply, it was very useful. Right now, I genuinel...

Hi @TheMinsterman

Here's a few more thoughts about your situation based on my experience. It may be blunt and/or not what you want to hear, but is is just my opinion taken from what you have been saying, which may or may not be correct.

Its eye opening that your SO/ExSO has fallen out with all her friends where she lives. Its a tactic I've seen before used by an abusive person to put a wedge between the abused and anyone likely to 'get in the way' of the abuser. I have a suspicion that my ex has a controlling/manipulating friend (I'm not sure that she would be described as abusive, certainly not at the moment) whom my ex described as a Mother figure. Considering that my ex was abused by her mother I feel there is some repeat pattern going on there. The friend who initially appeared very nice seemed to be driving a wedge between us on many occasions.

You're quite correct, she has got herself into this. She is a grown woman and must get herself out of it. It does appear that she is addicted to this person rather than has genuine feeling for him. As we said before, abusive behaviour can be strangely familiar and comfortable for some people who have endured it in the past. My ex has a very addictive side. She is addicted to alcohol although in denial about it. I mentioned on a couple of occasions that I was worried about the amount she drank. It was a genuine concern but on both those occasions and on many subsequent occasions when she went into her anger/blame mode, I was scorned for ever mentioning it. With your SO/exSO, I do feel this is a similar addiction and as with all addictions, the addicted person has to be the one to realise and to make steps to resolve it. At this point she may ask for help and that is when you can step in to support her.

While she has not made the decision to distance herself from the addiction, I feel that anything you do could be seen as interference and therefore will not be looked on kindly. It seems that she knows this friendship is bad for her but like my ex's addiction to alcohol, the pull is too great at the moment. To me the relationship with alcohol was almost like my ex having an affair. I was left lonely in bed while every night all her attention was placed on this substance until 4am. The effects of this attention lasted beyond the drinking of it, as she was not present until 3pm the next day, then the cycle repeated from about 8pm. My ex's excuse was that she was not addicted because she did not drink in the morning when she got up. She did not see that her day was so skewed she did not have a morning to drink in. Addicts have many excuses, but until the addict is willing to be honest with themselves, imho, there is nothing we can do, even though it tortures us so much feeling powerless while they are going through it.

You said your heart is breaking and you genuinely don't know how much more you can take. My concern here is that you really must begin to protect yourself. If you become ill, you are certainly not going to be able to support her if she realises what is happening and wants to leave this friend. You mentioned your gut feeling. My philosophy is to not ignore my gut feeling. It is a great measure of current situations even if not always welcome.

I hope this doesn't sound too blunt but it is my feeling that by allowing her to come to you then go back to him then come back to you, then go back to him is kind of enabling her current situation. She has some hard decisions to make and maybe by putting a little distance between you both it may prompt her into those decisions and also help you to protect yourself too.

With regard to facebook, I am lucky in that I stopped using facebook a couple of years ago so I was never a facebook friend with my ex. For me personally, seeing my ex on facebook and her interactions with others would have been too torturous for me. I'm glad I am not on facebook. I do believe you can remain a friend with her but not receive updates from her facebook page. Have you considered that to protect yourself?

In short, you can still be there for her, but you have a little self preservation. It is so important.

I do hope I haven't overstepped the mark in what I said here, but I really feel for you in your current situation. Please take care of yourself.

 

[TheMinsterman]

@boodle, thank you for the reply. Don't worry about being blunt, I'm never going to snap at anybody here even if it's something I don't want to hear necessarily.

In regard to Facebook, I've already unfollowed her, I only saw the post because I checked my friend had said happy birthday. Odd tangent, she used to have a false birthday on FB and I forgot if I told my friend that actually no, this was the actual date. Either way, yes, she's unfollowed so we're still friends but I don't get anything she posts etc. She wasn't amused by what he posted, which she stated without me prompting it.

Yesterday we spoke a bit about "us", only for him to emerge forcing her to hide her phone, because he wants to read our conversations, it made her pretty angry, she feels its disrespectful of her privacy. I suspect the simple answer is he's jealous of me and feels threatened because of who I am/was, he clearly has feelings for her so I'm very much an inconvenience.

In terms of my gut? It's tricky, I'm default a massive pessimist, I will always convince myself of the single worst possibility, it's a bizarre protection technique I think, just prepare for and accept the worse case scenario so "I'm ready for it". Of course, it doesn't help, I just feel awful and get to say "told you do, never goes right". I find negatives and find ways to confirm them to myself, it's such a self destructive character trait. In my happier moments, it subsides and I just trust people at their word, but of course it's not been a happy time.

In terms of distance... well, she raised this before a few weeks ago before we fell out and stopped speaking when I decided to just give her space, it is since giving her that distance that she herself appears to have come to the conclusion that the behaviour is concerning and she is demonstrating a clear repeated dislike for it. I see what you're saying about potentially enabling her, right now? I don't really give her any advice (my advice would be to get the hell away from him), I just let her vent and listen. If she starts to begin to forgive the behaviour again and making up excuses like she did originally? I will distance myself from the topic, I'm not interested in playing the "he's so nice game."

He isn't, he's an abusive, possessive, controlling narcissist, so I'm not going to allow her to just vent and then go back to la la land where he's really "nice".

In terms of the fall out, it happened before she really got to know him, but I firmly believe they got closer because of it. She often refers to him as "her only ally down there", so I think the biggest allure to him is that without him, she'd have nobody. I suspect he probably knows that on some level, pretty easy to control somebody desperate for company, he's very jealous when she talks to anybody else.

You're right of course, I do have to look after myself... there is an irony that she said it's about time I focused on myself too because I always neglect myself. I haven't for a long time, I always try to help others and it's at my expense, constantly. I get your point that if I want to be a supportive friend and I allow myself to crumble than I can't be that anyway. I'm already in a depressive rut and unwell.

Now that it is clear that for the moment all we are is friends, it'll probably be easier to distance myself from it. Yeah, I don't want her to get hurt but this is her battle. She has stated I am still the most important person in her life, it's nice but... that can always change. I won't abandon her unless it's pertinent to do so but yeah, I'll just have to listen when she needs to vent and let her come to terms that this is a toxic friendship that isn't going to enable her recovery.

She's come a long way, but keeps bringing up how he makes her feel like she's not accomplished anything. Hopefully she realises that if she was brave enough to break up with me for the sake of her recovery being put first that she needs to be brave enough to stand up to and cut out somebody who is actively working against her recovery.

But that's her battle.

 

[boodle]

@boodle, thank you for the reply. Don't worry about being blunt, I'm never goi...

You're doing really well @TheMinsterman despite everything. I personally think you are being very rational despite the pain you're feeling.

It's tricky, I'm default a massive pessimist

Its funny because I'm the eternal optimist and try to see the best in every situation, and that is sometimes to my detriment too. I can be too gracious towards people that don't necessarily deserve it and end up getting badly hurt because of it. So from each of us having opposing points of view, we can still end up with the same outcome. This kind of leads me to think that sometimes what will be will be.

One thing that has been invaluable to me (in addition to this forum) is having a counselling session each week (twice last week after the split). If you don't already do this, it may well be something to consider.

Keep well

 

[TheMinsterman]

You're doing really well @TheMinsterman despite everything. I personally think you ar...

Thanks @boodle, admittedly tonight I broke down and cried, not so much about this per se, just everything in my life. My mum is getting panic attacks again, I'm single, she's being treated like crap and our contact is dictated by somebody else, despite trying to move forward and enact self care I think I just finally felt the weight of everything at once.

I'm just not sure what to do with myself either right now, every time I think I am finally turning some corners something else smacks me down. I'm trying so hard to stay motivated to better myself and look after myself, but when I take those first steps it's like I get knocked on my ass again.

Counselling would be nice, not a clue where to look though.