How Close Is Too Close For Therapists And Clients?

[Butterflies2023]

I have been seeing my therapist for well over a year. We have become close, like friends almost. We...

Perhaps it is a new feeling or because it has been a long time since you have been able to trust ... it is exciting. Not to be mixed up with intimacy. Exciting can be good without developing into anything outside boundaries. But I would also share this realization with your therapist. Sometimes just sharing and acknowledging this is the best way to support it without getting off track.

 

[desiderata310]

hmmm...going back to the OP I would say that it's difficult to say WHAT is ok and what crosses the line for most. Since i don't even pretend to know what's ok and what's not I'm going to simply talk about what might be too 'friendly' but works in a very strange way. BUT, and I am going to make this very clear at the beginning of this post: *I* set and guard boundaries very carefully. (not my take, my therapist's take)That's not to say that he most likely has boundaries for me and other clients as well, but he has assured me that I've never even come CLOSE to the boundaries.

There have been times that I have felt that my therapist was just a bit too 'chummy' but in hind site I've been able to see what he's been TRYING to establish.

For the sake of explaining, I am going to try to also establish what kind of client I am: I have RAGING trust issues. (i.e. trust NO ONE), I have a ragged and almost nonexistent support network as a result. My lack if trust impacts therapy in all ways. For a long time before this would (and sometimes STILL does) hold me back.

Before I finally got a service dog of my own, he would bring in his own dog which helped establish some sort of buffer and helped convince my BRAIN that he was sort of ok if he had a dog that was obviously not being abused. (at my request, if I want to leave Charlie at home, he will bring in Kaia instead)

There have been things that he had done that he has made it clear to me that he doesn't do for everyone but in retrospect, have allowed me to see him as more of a human being and less of an 'authority figure' (in which I have ZERO trust ). Some of those things have made me incredibly uncomfortable and I have utterly refused. It just crossed a line that while HE might have been comfortable with, put me in a situation where I saw a potential abuser instead of a therapist.

None of those things are necessarily BAD but it gave him a very clear picture of what I was dealing with outside of the therapy room. MY parameters are drawn much more tightly than most of the world's, it seems.

I do NOT consider him a friend. Probably never will for a number of reasons: he knows too much of my history and that is incredibly painful. When I DO see him out in the community, especially after a difficult section of sessions or after I've revealed something I consider especially PAINFUL, all I can do is walk away and cry. It's bad enough that I know these things but knowing that he knows it is so painful/embarrassing/word-I-can't-find that I would never be able to just.. go to a book club that he attends or something like that.

He has (in spite of himself) tried to establish that he is a 'safe' person. That he can be trusted (he needs to work on that more) and as a result, he's gone further trying to establish these things. It's only recently that I've been able to understand that this is the impetus behind some of the really strange things he sometimes does for me.

The most recent? he's loaned me a surfboard, a really NICE surfboard a Walden Mega Magic (go ahead and google it, I'll wait. I freaked out when I finally did), for an extended period of time (i.e. till I can find one like it for myself and purchase it) I think he knew that I would bump it at some point and I did. I cracked the nose on it. When I did, I utterly fell apart. I imagined all sorts of awful things happening (and still fear them a good bit)

HIs response was that it was REALLY no big deal, said that he was sorry that it had happened, told me who I could take it to to get it fixed and that he was more worried about the fact that I didn't have a board to ride for a while. When I got it back yesterday, I also had to go through the anxiety that it now looks gnarly. (he had insisted that there was no reason to spend the extra money to have it painted) I sent him a picture of it, completely freaked by this.
"really, Des, it's ok. Go surf! It's water tight now, that's what matters!)

Do I trust that?
no, not entirely. There a voice and a tension at the back of everything- a fear that he's going to lash out about it. (that was a long establish history of things in my life. and I've never trusted and taken anything anyone takes at face value as a result) BUT so far, he's stuck to the notion that he's ok with the board and that he's not going to hold it over my head.

Does this loaning of boards and (he's already established that he's buying me a coffee next week because I can't deal with the coffee shop- I'm paying for it) other very unusual things mean that he's crossed the therapeutic line?
A lot of people would say hell yes. And ordinarily I would agree with them except that what most people don't realize is that MY f*cking Great Wall of China (complete with razor wire at the top) lies parallel to the line. So I'm kind a one of those clients that if he wants to get to me, he's is probably going to have to bend some rules.

Keep in mind that all of this is a very recent realization for me. I also don't trust the realization. And there are plenty of times that I look at all of this stuff and pull back and figure that it's all part of a plot and shit's about to go sideways.

(did I mention I have trust issues?)

So, I would say, if you have concerns about if it's ok to feel like your therapist is a friend instead of a therapist, that it's time to have a frank conversation about transference and counter-trasferrance. Chances are that she's a LOT more guarded than she's letting on.

That's my $.02 worth.

 

[SasTana]

Do you actually mean to tell me that you think it is okay that a client goes to a therapist,...

Oh my goodness. You certainly feel you understand the whole picture - diagnosis- etc. - very quickly with very little communication. Thank God you're not a therapist - you would pigeon hole every client regardless according to you. You just take one sentence you want to pick apart and criticize, make assumptions, and dismiss everything else said.
You are not referring to the same thread that I was referring too... you do don't know how long the therapy was... you do not know anything about the situation at all really - so yes I don't feel the need to criticize or pass judgment. I'm sorry you have such a tough time dealing with this... it can certainly be hard can't it!

 

[joeylittle]

You just take one sentence you want to pick apart and criticize, make assumptions, and dismiss everything else said.

Sometimes, this leads to helpful insight for the OP, for others....

If all we did here was validate each other, it would be an un-useful place. Take what's useful and leave the rest. Conflict is not inherently bad.

No-one in this thread has posted inappropriately. All viewpoints are valid. Getting too sucked into whether people are posting 'correctly' or not...that does become derailing, and ultimately takes away from the actual topic of the thread.

That's not happening yet. I hope it can stay that way.

 

[ms spock]

You certainly feel you understand the whole picture - diagnosis- etc. - very quickly with very little communication.

That is actually the nature of online communication - you can't see body language, you can't see eye movement, you cannot hear tone of voice - we are all making assumptions based on the available information that we have to hand at the time. Often we are making assumptions that confirm our confirmation bias, if we have not worked through distorted cognitions. I work on mine on a daily basis. If you don't know what those are you can go here. Are You Familiar With The Top Ten Distorted Cognitions?

If you don't agree with what I am saying, or you don't feel that I have grasped the situation in a meaningful way; then you are in a position to say "Hey Disco Dancing Queen - we haven't communicated as well as I would have hoped, and I would like you to take X, Y and Z in to consideration." (You could just put DDQ). You could say this feels like an attack to me right now so I am going to go away and think about what you said. You might come back and say DDQ - I think you are wrong. You may choose to engage in further discussion or you may not. I may be persuaded by your commentary/debate or argument, or I might understand that I have not understand from your previous comments, and I may ask for further information. This is what happens all over the forum. Just because I don't agree with a particular post or set of posts doesn't mean I think less of the people posting. It just means I am taking the time to engage and share my throughts, ideas, insights, opinions, lived experiences, research, employment history expertise that I have. We may not agree at all. But it doesn't mean I think less of anyone - it just means that I disagree - and I might change my opinion as new information is provided about the situation.

If we were all to wait for ALL the information for every situation on this forum - then it simply wouldn't exist - as no one would be able to respond until they were sure that they know all the ins and outs of a particular opening posters post or thread. So I am not persuaded by that particular argument. But if you were to give me specifics, I might understand what you are saying. I might agree with you. However I might not agree with you.

We all come from different traditions of debate, argument, fleshing out, therapy backgrounds, professional training, educational experiences - and those traditions that influence us and our communication styles may rub each other up the wrong way online - which wouldn't be a problem if were were communicating in real time with the visceral physiciality of each other in the same room, because caring and empathy that you experience in real time often doesn't translate to an online format.

You are not referring to the same thread that I was referring too...

My apologies if I responded to the incorrect thread - not the one you were referring to - which thread are you referring to?

Are you referring to the one that was posted in anonymous? Because it does actually specify the short period of time, and that it stopped because the therapist "wanted to be friends" with the client. This is unprofessional behaviour, which is not just worrying the husband of the woman who is now "friends" with her therapist (and the husbands are both friends) but that person themselves is having conflicted feelings. The person themselves is concerned and worried enough to create a thread about these issues in the anonymous forum.

I would like to read the correct thread so I know what you are referring to.

 

[ms spock]

]I don't have an issue with difference of opinion, however you picked apart every post that you felt applied to your meaning and then told us how wrong we all were.

I respectfully disagree with your statement that you don't have an issue with a difference of opinion - in this one particular thread. I have seen you make great points and I have learnt from you in other threads. So just because I am disagreeing with you passionately in this thread; that doesn't mean that I discount the value of what you are saying in other threads, or information I have learnt from you previously.

If you disagree you can actually say "I respectfully disagree". That is your right.

I stated clearly that I did not agree. I think the distorted thinking that goes on around this stuff needs to be clearly unpicked. I picked it apart in the most clear and precise manner that I know how.

I looked at the thread, and yes, I did pick apart the distorted thinking/non helpful thinking in each of the posts that I felt I had something to say about. If you read across the forum - you will find that taking place in most of the threads occuring at this time. People are picking out the parts of threads and posts that they agree with and disagree with, and then they are commenting on what they have chosen to comment on. So I don't see how that is a problem. In this particular thread I disagree with certain things.

I clearly stated that I understood the boundaries were professional yet you chose to apply your traumatic history to my situation hence the reason why I see it as triggering for you.

It is true I could be mislabelling and doing emotional reasoning. I could be triggered. I could also be participating in an important debate, which I believe needs to be had.

You may also be doing emotional reasoning, mislabelling, minimisation and so forth. You may be threatened by my challenges to you understanding. It happens to all of us at some point on this forum. I could also reading it wrong, and you are just irritated by my communciation style.

Even if I am triggered, that doesn't mean I don't have valuble information/insight to add to this discussion/debate.

Perhaps you need to examine that a little harder...

This could be true. I might need to examine that a little harder. It also may also be true that the thinking present in this thread may also need to be examined a bit harder as well.

 

[ms spock]

I hear ya lady, I just think it's not so black and white like you're projecting.

That could be entirely true - they are my opinions and thoughts - and members can choose whether to take them on board or not, as the case may be.

I don't think R was trying to start anything with you, either.

I can answer reply back to a comment of whether or not I am triggered. Just because someone gives an opinion you don't like - that doesn't always follow that they are triggered. If someone is passionate or enthusiastic or has a communciation style that doesn't match your own - it doesn't mean that they are triggered. They might well be - but they might also be nailing an important point or insight.

(Also, information is power, and you've provided a great deal of great information!)

I thought that was the point of the thread - otherwise I wouldn't have bothered to reply

 

[Suzetig]

Are you referring to the one that was posted in anonymous?

There's no need to answer this if it might out you on that thread - anonymous threads are usually anonymous for a reason.

I wonder if it might be helpful to stop posting about posting and return to the discussion at hand? I think @desiderata310 has given a really good example of when "unconventional" approaches to therapy can be appropriate and helpful.

I guess the guiding thought for me is whose need is being met. My T had consistently blurred one particular boundary throughout our therapy. She's solid in every way except time management where we'll consistently work for well over the hour. She schedules for it so there's no impact on other clients and is open about managing time boundaries tightly with her other clients. She's also been open about why she does this with me and I understand her thinking, she never charges me for more than my hour session and has refused to let me pay an increased amount for her time.

Depending on your understanding of therapy and therapeutic relationship she could be considered to be blurring boundaries, unprofessional, fostering dependency etc etc. What I do know is the my work with her has been incredibly effective and her blurring of this particular boundary has helped that enormously. In my specific circumstances it's been very therapeutic, for someone else it could be a hinderance.

For me, if it's in service of the client, with clear reflection and reasoning, if the T is in supervision and open about all aspects of the blurred boundary in supervision, of the T is open to hearing challenge about it and there's no harm to the Client it may be ok. There's also the question of whether the T is able to sustain what they've started (e.g. Out of session contact, walking therapy etc), and whether they might come to resent the Client as a result of whatever concession - and of course sexual activity is an absolute no-no. But unconventional therapy or therapy with unconventional parts can be ok.

 

[SasTana]

Sometimes, this leads to helpful insight for the OP, for others....

If all we did here was validate...

I absolutely agree! Was pointing out DDQ's selective method unacceptable? Or perhaps my irritation and defensiveness with DDQ came across too strongly?

I guess knowing my own history and how mean and spiteful I'm able to get, I thought I handled it rather well. But upon rereading it, I can see there is something of a personal dig there - isn't there. I'm sorry DDQ.

I did/do think it's a shame to consider the misconceptions a few may take re: what was originally said only because they may not have the time to research and read the complete earlier post. And while I did find it irritating to see half of what was said ignored (with other posts besides my own), I can now see that's just going to happen at times in this medium.

I personally don't have the time to get too involved here... so as I fly through a thread or two, the more information available the better! Keep posting!

 

[Lee2001]

I think is is a good question! Very interesting to read all of the responses. So like others have said the therapist obviously has authority so I would think that could make it challenging. My Therapist explained one thing once that made sense to me....The therapy and client relationship is made to become an obsolete relationship, so that there is not as much pressure or expectations. So I suppose it is easier to say and reveal things about yourself etc in therapy sessions, and knowing it is only affecting the relationship you are in with therapist. That made me feel better and much more open to therapy. Another example is I personally became good friends with my Doctor like play dates with kids etc... for me it is still a bit uncomfortable and weird.. I just had her do minor surgery the other day and find it hard to define the relationship! I have learned from that even though I really care for my friend doctor.... it's just weird!

 

[joeylittle]

I absolutely agree! Was pointing out DDQ's selective method unacceptable? Or perhaps my irritation and defensiveness with DDQ came across too strongly?

No - not at all. I was simply pointing out (because you are new) that pulling apart what people say and challenging it is often what we do around here - it's completely acceptable behavior. That's all.

 

[SasTana]

I have been seeing my therapist for well over a year. We have become close, like friends almost. We...

Hey Frenzy, See if you can read this link...
So it wouldn't let me post the link. But you can find it by searching psychology today evolution-the-self and can-your-therapist-be-your-friend by
Leon F Seltzer Ph.D.