Relationship How do i talk finances with my wife?

[Danielson0014]

This has always been a difficult subject for me to bring up with my wife. I need to be able to talk her about our money but she always just shuts down or gets angry with me. When I try to talk to her about how much things cost and what do we have available she gets very upset because she feels like she is a burden because she doesn't make as much as me. I certainly don't think that and try to show her that, but I need to be able to talk her about our budget. To make things worse, she is currently unemployed because she was interviewed and offered a job where I work then they changed their minds. She put in her two week notice at her current job, then my company retracted a really good salary because we were married and couldn't both work there despite them knowing that from the beginning. And in the same week she found out she had a cyst on her ovary that required surgery to remove.
So while she was difficult to talk to when she was just making less than me, now she is making nothing and I had to pay for her surgery, which I had no problem doing, but it makes her impossible to talk to without being triggered. She feels like I'm holding her surgery over her head and I would have rather she died. She went way over budget on our credit card this month and the fight eventually led to me having to physically restrain her as she tried to take out my concealed weapon to shoot herself.
I know I made mistakes in the way I approached the situation, I was mad. But even when I'm completely cool and calm I can't have more than a 2 minute conversation about finances before she shuts down. How can I approach her?

 

[Sweetpea76]

Finances are a powder keg.

Can she not talk about them at all? Or just when she is stressed? Is the issue that she is recklessly spending and digging your family into a hole?

 

[Danielson0014]

Well this is the second time she has been unemployed since we got married two years ago. Last time I could never talk to her even if she wasn't stressed ( or least I couldn't tell she was stressed).I was also making half of what I am now so things were really tight. This time I tried to give her space and trust her to handle her budget. She survived on her on without me for years after all. But when I do check in I find she's out of control with spending. Even when She had a job she wouldn't come to me with a problem until her saving and checking were both at 0. I want to trust her but her history makes it hard. And talking before she get to that points doesn't work. How do I tell her we need to stay in budget without her taking it as a personal attack? How do I talk to her about trying to pay for her surgery? I know it's not her fault and I don't want her to feel guilty about it, but that's still a huge bill we have to factor into our budget.

 

[Sweetpea76]

I would try discuss with her how she wants to handle money discussions, if that makes sense. Tell her you are not talking about money at all right now. Rather, you just want to figure out how she wants to handle household finances. You are giving her options and control when it comes to participating in financial discussions. Find out if she thinks it is too much for her to handle. Would it take stress away if you handled all the household finances and just gave her spending money? Or does she actively want to take part in all financial decisions? Is it somewhere in between? What is her comfort level?

Find out what she needs, but don't forget to protect yourself. You need boundaries too.

For example, if she wants to participate in budgeting and financial discussions she can't throw a fit like a child, get hysterical, then try to shoot herself. You will not tolerate that. You will not participate in that nonsense. If she gets hysterical, you will leave the situation. She doesn't get a say in that. That is your boundary and she can choose to respect it or not. If she doesn't respect it, you will leave the conversation every time. Budget meetings are not her time to go to town with self loathing and distorted cognitions. It's time to take the money from column A to column B. That's it. It doesn't matter why she can't spend, it's that it's not in the budget period. You get the idea...

Also, she doesn't have a license to go nuts with her credit card and then expect you to cover all her excessive spending. PTSD does not give her free range to ruin your financial wellbeing. It doesn't matter if finances stress her out or if she shops as a coping method to feel better.

You are allowed to look out for your own safety and wellbeing. It is just as important as hers, and this is a threat to the household.

You have every right to set your boundary here too. You're not going to give her the money to cover her credit card debt anymore. The household cannot afford it. It doesn't matter why, it's just the way it is. Your priority is paying for her surgery, and you guys cannot afford her shopping AND her surgery. That's reality. If she chooses to overspend then it is her problem to solve. You will not give her money to cover frivolous shopping expenses. Period.

Do what you need to do to protect your own personal credit. If she chooses to run up debt and blow money, she needs to deal with the consequences of her actions.

She's still an adult. She still has responsibilities, even if she has PTSD. Would you tolerate this from a healthy spouse?

 

[Friday]

What @Sweetpea76 said. Times a billion.

 

[Justmehere]

but it makes her impossible to talk to without being triggered.

It's important to remember you can't manage her triggers. Figure out what will it take for you to respond, not react to her, and stay cool. I think you already know this part.

I agree with @SweetPea -

Figure out your boundaries. Keep in mind that boundaries are not about changing or controlling other people, but about controlling ourselves. Make it about you as much as you can, and less about what she did or did not do and how stupid it was....

If you have a joint account, you may need to have your income put into a separate account for a short season until she gets on her feet. Make it clear the dollar amount what you agree to cover on her card in advance for each month.

She went way over budget on our credit card this month and the fight eventually led to me having to physically restrain her as she tried to take out my concealed weapon to shoot herself.

If anything like this happens again, stop everything, do not pass go, this when you call 911 or at least a suicide crisis line.

Anyone attempts to use a weapon on themselves, it's time to drop everything and get the professionals involved. Period. Do not pretend like it didn't happen, do not just carry on and try again on your own.

Hang in there!

 

[Danielson0014]

Ok thanks a ton guys. I feel like I have some options now. I'll try what SweetPea said. Maybe we can come up with a plan about money without talking about OUR money and she can help me find a rational solution.
As to her suicidial thoughts I will try not to dismiss them and call a crisis hotline. It's just she had been doing stuff like that for years now and it scares the crap out of me but at some point you stop believing she's is going to do it because she says it so much. I know that's a dangerous mindset and I would never be able to live with myself if she actually did it and hadn't taken it seriously. What would be the best way to go about it. Should I call and try to get her to talk to them or should I try and put them on speaker?

 

[Justmehere]

It's just she had been doing stuff like that for years now and it scares the crap out of me but at some point you stop believing she's is going to do it because she says it so much.

That makes sense why it's hard to believe. Even if someone is just saying it when they may not fully mean it, it's still a sign of someone not coping well.

If you make it clear you will take it seriously when she says stuff like that by contacting the crisis folks, she'll either get help she needs, or quit the emotional blackmail, and perhaps be a little more motivated to find a healthier way to communicate.

The crisis lines are trained in helping supporters figure out what to do in a bad spot, even when the sufferer isn't willing to talk to them. They could coach you through talking to her, or encouraging her to hop on the phone.... use *I* statements when you tell her about calling them - "When you say you want to die, I feel worried, so I called them to help..."

There are also crisis text services and crisis chat too. If she's not willing to talk on the phone, those might be options she'd be willing to do.

If the crisis line folks deem her an imminent risk to herself or others, they may send out mobile crisis or the police for a welfare check. If it comes to that, advocate for mobile crisis instead of police (if that's an option) and tell them she is a trauma survivor. They might handle it better.

 

[Friday]

It's just she had been doing stuff like that for years now and it scares the crap out of me but at some point you stop believing she's is going to do it because she says it so much.

It also becomes a conscious/unconscious manipulation tool. If she doesn't want to do something? If EITHER threatening suicide OR getting actually suicidal "works"? Guess what will keep happening? Yep. Bad juju.

It can really be either way. She may honestly be getting suicidal every time, because if she wants to die? She doesn't have to think about things she doesn't want to think about. It's a HUGELY dangerous pattern to fall into, where killing yourself is your go to response for anything & everything. (¡¡¡ DBT !!!) Distress Tolerance is a learned skill. As is emotional monitoring & self regulation.

TBH I doubt you'll be able to have a rational discussion about anything she doesn't want to, until she learns those things.

 

[EveHarrington]

Is she in therapy?

I really think she needs more support, STAT!

:hug:

 

[Danielson0014]

She was in therapy years ago in college when it was offered for free, but we couldn't afford it when she dropped out. I'm finally able to afford it/she is willing to try again. She has seen one therapist but wasn't a good match. She has appointments with some more soon and I have a consultation today with one myself. So hopefully she can start getting the support she needs.

 

[The Albatross]

If she's not able to have a discussion she doesn't need access to credit cards. For the interim... cash only.

I came back to add... it really doesn't have anything to do with the surgery... the pressure she's adding is by being irresponsible.

At one point me and my mister had to have a 3rd party mediation due to his financial recklessness/sabotage (and I'M the PTSD go figure, so for us it was a separate issue)... sometimes it's easier for them to swallow the bitter pill if it comes from someone else than the partner/spouse. Less likely to have a melt down/fit in front of a third party (ours was a financial counselor).

When he was ready to enjoin and work together to problem solve, do a budget, and stick with it... then he had looser restrictions. He still doesn't have a major credit card, but instead has a prepaid visa to keep in his wallet for emergencies and other things... we put money on it every 2-3 months.