Success, self-loathing & suicides in the news recently

[Dana1010]

A couple of famous musicians (Chris Cornell and Chester Bennington) killed themselves in the last couple months. Kind of makes me think, why weren't they happy? What was it that success, millions of fans, tons of money, girls throwing themselves at them and all the rest could not knock out of their heads?

And what chance do I have of ever overcoming my own self-loathing? The success I've gained hasn't really helped. In some ways it's made it worse. I feel like a huge fraud. The more recognition I get, the bigger a scam I feel I'm perpetrating on the people who give it to me.

Before, at least I had the dream and the hope that success would make me like myself. Actually getting some success has effectively dashed that hope.

Did these guys feel like frauds too? On stage at sold-out arenas, did they see their abusers or critics or whomever sitting front row center, saying, "I'll always know what a loser you really are. You can't fool me?"

I know this is a weird topic. It's just interesting to me that some people can't believe their own success for some reason.

 

[Beans]

Success has very little to do with happiness. If anything, some try so hard to become successful to gain validation and to fill whatever void they have. I'd assume that it'd be even more painful to finally achieve the success you were after only to realize it didn't fulfill what you were really searching for. Money makes life easier to the extent your needs are provided, it does no more good than that. And fans don't provide love or real connection as they don't actually know the individuals nor will they be there for them. If anything i'd imagine it would feel more empty knowing that pple only like you for your music and might not like who you are (or will abandon you the second the next big act came along.) Anywho I'm rambly. Point is fame and money aren't human necessities, not at all. Connection, engagement, purpose, fulfillment, acceptance, etc are. Who knows what they felt, but all we do know is their real needs weren't being fulfilled for whatever reason.

 

[Dana1010]

Connection, engagement, purpose, fulfillment, acceptance

Kind of vague. And it's worth noting they both had wives and children. And friendship (the two were actually friends for some time). Do those count?

 

[The Albatross]

It's also worth noting that they both had issues with alcohol and drug abuse... and at least Bennington admitted being abused by an older male. I was a big fan of both, and haven't really thought too much about the "happy" thing... I though more about the level of intervention at top notch places they had access to because of their successes... if only they'd have used it.

 

[Beans]

Do they count? There are many, many needs. I'm not saying those are specifically the ones that weren't fulfilled, just the ones that fame and success definitely don't fill. It seemed to me you equated being successful and having fans to being fulfilled (or enough to be happy.) I just wanted to point out there's very little chance those brought real lasting fulfillment.

Also many pple in marriages aren't connected or even if they are it doesn't mean that's enough. Same with pple with large families and friends. I'm not saying this was the case with either of them. Point is, whatever the reason, they weren't happy and took their own lives. That's why if one feels depressed, suicidal or empty the best thing they can do is get into therapy and figure out exactly what is going on so they can begin working on it. Unfortunately not all get the help they need in time.:(

Hmmm I guess what i really mean is, if someone is counting on success to make them happy, it's highly unlikely it will. I'd recommend therapy to explore how to truly like oneself outside of being "successful."

 

[Dana1010]

It's also worth noting that they both had issues with alcohol and drug abuse

Yeah, true. But I don't think substance abuse causes suicide -- if anything, it prevents it to the long-term detriment of the user, obviously. Something else caused their suicides, perhaps the same thing that caused their drug abuse.

I heard about the abuse too. It's just amazing to me that memories could still make him feel worthless after he'd experienced so much success (if I'm not projecting too much).

I was also curious about whether they'd tried therapy.

 

[The Albatross]

"but I don't think substance abuse causes suicide"... Yeah it does. Further, so is co-occurring behaviors... like substance abuse/addiction and a mental health disorder or injury like PTSD. I did a lot of studying up on that because that was my issue. It put me squarely in the lowest prognosis for recovery... so I have taken it really seriously. Dead seriously, in fact.

"Suicide is the 10th leading cause (link is external) of death in the U.S. Depression and other mood disorders are the number-one risk factor for suicide, but alcohol and drug abuse – even without depression – are a close second (link is external). In fact, research has shown that the strongest predictor (link is external) of suicide is alcoholism, not a psychiatric diagnosis. People with substance use disorders are about six times (link is external) more likely to commit suicide than the general population."
(Da Link: Link Removed )

 

[Dana1010]

research has shown that the strongest predictor (link is external) of suicide is alcoholism, not a psychiatric diagnosis.

This stat stinks of correlation/causation problems. Do alcoholics kill themselves because they're alcoholics? Or because of what is driving them to alcoholism in the first place, i.e, unhappiness. Whether it's been diagnosed and labeled doesn't seem that relevant.

 

[The Albatross]

I expect for Chester, grief was another factor. He had written an open letter the day he learned of Chris' death and he sang at his friends funeral. The pair would often play together main stage at appearances. July 20th (the day Chester died) would have been Chris Cornell's 54th birthday.

 

[joeylittle]

But I don't think substance abuse causes suicide -- if anything, it prevents it to the long-term detriment of the user, obviously.

Can you clarify this? To me, it appears you are saying that substance abuse actually prevents suicide; and preventing suicide is detrimental to the substance abuser (implying that they'd be better off dead).

I don't think I'm reading it correctly, but would like to understand what you mean.

I'd also like to say: you're conflating success with fame. Success is not the same as fame. The famous person appears successful (to the observer) because we assume they got where they wanted to go. Right?

There are legitimately famous people (not just notorious, but are authentically recognized and appreciated for their talent/skill/accomplishments) who absolutely would call themselves unsuccessful.

They may be depressed, and have a depressive's viewpoint. They may depend on substances. They may be relatively well-adjusted and healthy, but have a bad case of imposter syndrome. Or, they may just be aware of two things present in their life: what they dream about doing, and what they are paid to do.

Fame doesn't make those things go away. If anything, it increases the cognitive dissonance and adds pressure.

 

[Dana1010]

Can you clarify this? To me, it appears you are saying that substance abuse actually prevents suicide; and preventing suicide is detrimental to the substance abuser (implying that they'd be better off dead).

LOL. I meant that getting high can temporarily improve one's mood, effectively staving off suicide. But the substance abuse itself (not the saying alive) is detrimental to the user in the long run.

Also, I don't think I am conflating success with fame. No, I don't think all fame equates to success. The fame of a mass murderer for instance is not the same as success (although, some deranged psychopaths might actually think it is.) I believe that both of these performers would have agreed that they were successful. They dreamed, like millions of teenagers, of becoming famous rock stars on MTV, and the cover of Rolling Stone, etc, etc. And it actually happened. And they got to do what they absolutely loved and made tons of money for it. Whatever that is, it doesn't suck.

What does it take to cure impostor syndrome? How many awards, how many sold out shows, how many magazine covers? If all of these things couldn't cure theirs, what hope do I have of curing mine?

Fame doesn't make those things go away. If anything, it increases the cognitive dissonance and adds pressure.

I agree with this.

 

[Sideways]

It's interesting to me the way the media here in Aus has made a noteable shift in the way these things are reported. We still get the international media's perspective via the net.

But local media outlets have reported this consistently with the way that mental health issues are now covered. The central point of the story is not just the tragic loss, but that everyone and anyone can be effectsd by mental health issues.

Much like cancer or any other kind of illness, the amount of fame or financial success a person has doesn't make them immune from mental healtth issues.

Certainly that's the message I've been hearing from the way our media has presented many "celebrities with mental health issues" stories, including this lates suicde. The point is no "If that amount of fame/money/success doesn't cure it, what hope is there for me?" The point is, "Everyone can get sick, everyone can get mental health issues, we're all human".