Success, self-loathing & suicides in the news recently

[Dana1010]

The point is, "Everyone can get sick, everyone can get mental health issues, we're all human".

I'm assuming Bennington's issues resulted from his childhood abuse. He said that the experience "destroyed his confidence." If all of that fame, wealth, success, etc. (on top of a wife and kids) could not build his confidence back up -- wow. What can you say about that?

 

[lostnconfused]

A couple of famous musicians (Chris Cornell and Chester Bennington) killed themselves in the last couple months. Kind of makes me think, why weren't they happy? What was it that success, millions of fans, tons of money, girls throwing themselves at them and all the rest could not knock out of their heads?

...Did these guys feel like frauds too? On stage at sold-out arenas, did they see their abusers or critics or whomever sitting front row center, saying, "I'll always know what a loser you really are. You can't fool me?"

I came across a long radio interview that Chester Bennington did in February 2017, where he mentioned that he felt fine whenever he tried to focus on taking care of his family, friends, etc., but that when he's alone or by himself, that's when he has negative, dark thoughts.

 

[Sideways]

What can you say about that?

That's kind of what I was getting at though. Those sorts of things aren't going to be much better at curing mental health issues than they are any other type of illness.

If he'd died of cancer, a person would be unlikely to think, "Well if all that success didn't cure his cancer, what hope is there for me and my cancer...?"

 

[joeylittle]

They dreamed, like millions of teenagers, of becoming famous rock stars on MTV, and the cover of Rolling Stone, etc, etc. And it actually happened. And they got to do what they absolutely loved and made tons of money for it. Whatever that is, it doesn't suck.

How do you know that, though?

You don't. You can't.

Those sorts of things aren't going to be much better at curing mental health issues than they are any other type of illness.

So true.

 

[Dana1010]

If he'd died of cancer, a person would be unlikely to think, "Well if all that success didn't cure his cancer, what hope is there for me and my cancer...?"

LOL. Success isn't generally expected to cure cancer. Success is generally expected to raise one's confidence.

I'm really just trying to understand why some people can't believe their own success. I think I might be one of them, and I'd like to understand the problem better so I can address it -- maybe.

 

[joeylittle]

I dunno, @Dana1010 - I know some pretty famous artists. And some, I've known pre- and post- fame. What they will tell you is what anyone who performs, makes art, writes for a living will tell you: you're only as good as your last thing. It's an industry where you have to fight for approval, fight for permission. Nothing is easy, and it doesn't get easier, it actually gets harder. If you go into it with a healthy mind, and then you continue to figure out how to put that balance into your life - you can weather it, and maybe even enjoy it.

But whatever we are calling "success" will never, ever compensate for lack of self-worth. It will never be what you can use to replace those negative core beliefs. It simply doesn't work that way. You need to do the work of learning how to validate yourself, whether you are a "nobody" or a big-ass "somebody".

I'm really just trying to understand why some people can't believe their own success

So long as you are operating from negative core identity, you will have a built-in mechanism for tearing down anything that might challenge that script. So, do something awesome at work? Well, to buy into that would require reversing some very deeply held beliefs about yourself. Success in the now will not cover up or infuse the negative messages you've been living by.

The real test is to change what you believe about yourself, regardless of what the rest of the world may say about your worth. It can be a small, useful element among a lot of other CBT elements. But it's not the answer.

 

[Dana1010]

What they will tell you is what anyone who performs, makes art, writes for a living will tell you: you're only as good as your last thing.

I'd also take big shots' humble brags with a grain of salt. :roflmao:

 

[EveHarrington]

I honestly think you should go study Buddhism. I think it would open your eyes/mind so that you can understand why these EXTERNAL entities were not enough to save either of these men from their tragic fates.

Studying Buddhism has done so much for my healing journey. Its allowed me to understand why none of my accomplishments have made me happy. (I have ONE accomplishment which is pretty cool that I'm super proud of but still, it doesn't bring me happiness.)

I'm not saying that these men were completely unable to find internal satisfaction and internal happiness. What I am saying is that your perception is off in assuming that fame and fortune and money somehow had the power to save them. Happiness from these things is fleeting. (IT IS INDEED LONELY AT THE TOP!) When you are that ungodly rich, it can be isolating as you don't know who likes you for you and who likes you for your money.

 

[Dana1010]

What I am saying is that your perception is off in assuming that fame and fortune and money somehow had the power to save them.

This really is not what I am saying.

I don't know if they killed themselves because they could not find "internal happiness." (How would you define that anyway?) I believe most people who kill themselves do so because of something external, past or present, that they can't change -- like abuse and it's after-effects (internal, but originating as external). I don't think it is likely that they said, "Well, I have everything I want, it's too bad I can't find 'internal happiness.'"

I didn't write this post out of knowledge. But I think it's a bit pat to say, "Well, money and fame and success and adoration don't give you 'internal happiness'" if you can't even define what "Internal happiness" is, how one achieves it, or how it might relate to external realities.

 

[Tinyflame]

Statistically, protective factors against suicide include support and purpose; conversely the absence of fear along with those can make the difference between attempting and ideation (so they say).

But no one knows but the person themself- perhaps not even them. The presence of pain, sensitivity, drugs/ alcohol, drug reactions, poor impulse control, of course depression, undiagnosed conditions, etc. Etc.

I think it is naive to say lacking resources allows for the same care, or abundance of or quality of care. And being in need does nothing to reduce the stress cup- many stressors or problems can be solved easily if one has the money to throw at them. But sensing happiness is also affected by the reward centre of the brain, is affected by memory, and by being true to one's self. Most of everyone's public persona is just that- a facade. I think too gratitude and happiness go together, in the way that that is mutually exclusive to trying to fill the holes in our hearts with anything else we can try- money, objects, attention, adoration, self-medicating, diversion, distraction, sex, relationships, even anger +/or competition. The list is endless, from attaining more and new to changing one's self or trying to change others. I'd rather have less I enjoy and love, than more of what means little or is transient, fair-weather, boring or 'disposable' , to me. If I don't want something genuinely, not because others have it, how will I ever value or cherish or love it?

I think one thing that has a greater possibility of being true, is at least in that moment, was that his resources to cope were dwarfed by his pain, or rather his pain exceeded them. Most people with SI by that time aren't even shooting for 'happiness' or anything future-based, at least not initially, rather just being able to bear it. In fact, I'd say it very possible a thought that his wife and kids would have money even if he wasn't there would bode for SI, not against it. I'm also not sure if what he described as a lack of confidence should be used interchangeably with self-loathing. Perhaps what he called lack of confidence -especially on a public interview the world could hear- was a minimizing expression of very deep emotional pain and scars? It certainly sounds like it could have been.

 

[joeylittle]

I'd also take big shots' humble brags with a grain of salt

That's the only thing of use you pulled out of my post? That some people I care about - a lot - who deal with a disorder that we share - are bullshitting me?

Try giving a shit about someone's experience other than your own. Maybe doing that will eventually get you somewhere in your recovery.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Money makes life easier

Not always!

Have no idea what success and fame has to do with happiness.

I have been poor my entire life but have recently had a good amount of money and I was not happier. Life was not easier. That is a complete lie that money makes it all better. How many rich and famous people have now killed themselves? If anything, fame and money complicates!