Does "validation" actually help you?

[DogwoodTree]

My T seems to be doing this whole "validation" thing correctly...following the correct protocols or whatever. But it doesn't do anything for me.

Over the past three years, I've seen 4 different therapists regularly for a season (regular T for 2.5 years, 6 months of that time with an equine T too, another 3.5 months with an EMDR T, then had to switch to a different regular T because the first one moved). All four of those people seemed to implement "validating" statements and attitudes in ways consistent with what I read about online. But with none of them did I really feel "validated." Actually, their comments feel invalidating to me. I feel angry, or abandoned, or unseen, or misunderstood, or disliked, or whatever, depending on the day and time and topic and circumstances. It feels more like a manipulative, psychological trick to me than anything genuine.

I've talked about this with all four Ts, including the current T. They've all been at a loss to know what to do differently, and I've not been able to offer any ideas, either, as I've never really experienced emotional validation like what it seems I'm supposed to.

I have Asperger's, and it seems all I'm really looking for is what's "right" and "wrong." If I'm "right" on something and the other person sees it and agrees, I feel validated in that. If I'm "wrong" on something, I feel horrible. It's not a superiority thing--I don't feel like I have to be "better" than everyone else in order to be okay. It's an objective, right vs. wrong thing. I'm not sure how else to explain it, just that it's really important to me to have the right understanding/ approach/ beliefs/ opinion/ whatever, because "right" is "best"...the most likely to result in a good outcome.

It's a rules thing. I need to have the right and best-possible rules, and follow them carefully and consistently. And it deeply annoys me when other people don't follow the rules, like when people run a red light, or cut someone off in traffic (even if it's not me they cut off), or cheat on a test (even if it doesn't affect me directly), or cheat on their taxes, or lie about someone, or whatever. It's not an egocentric thing--it's not about how it affects me personally. It's a "rules" thing. I feel angry and scared and disoriented when people break the rules, even if it doesn't affect me directly.

My T keeps suggesting it might not be helpful to focus so much on right vs. wrong. I've tried recognizing "variety" rather than "dichotomy." I'm slowly learning how to do that to a degree, but when it comes to the things that really matter to me, it's still right-vs-wrong. Any effort to "validate" an emotion or thought that isn't objectively "right" feels dishonest...disintegrous. I'm really struggling with the idea that reality and truth can be subjective.

I also struggle with the concept of ambivalence. My mother was dx'd with multiple personality disorder back in 1993, just after I left for college. She still shows pervasive signs of borderline, and fluctuates a great deal between positions in conflicts with me, depending on whatever serves her interests best at the moment (I work for her, and somehow I've also managed to become the black sheep in the family). At times, I truly question my grip on reality, and lately that's been even worse. I desperately need more consistency...some way to anchor myself in reality. I've always highly prioritized logic, consistency, honesty, and accuracy.

So for the T to "validate" emotions that he doesn't agree with seems dishonest to me. I understand--on some level--that he doesn't have to experience the same emotions I'm experiencing in order for my emotions to be legitimate. At least, I think I understand that, on a cognitive level, anyway. My emotions are buried so deeply, and I don't have a good way to express them. I guess what I'm looking for is for him to express the emotions that I can't get out? I don't know. That doesn't seem accurate, either.

I don't know what I need from him. I've been in therapy for nearly 3 years, and still haven't figured out what I need from a T that would actually help. I'm pretty sure the problem is with me and not him, since I've had the same problem with four different Ts now. But I don't have a clue what I'm supposed to change so that his "validating" efforts will have a positive effect for me. I walk away from nearly every session feeling like a repulsive, cowardly idiot, no matter how "validating" the T was. Sometimes the pain is so bad I can hardly move for hours afterward. I've come to deeply despise myself because of my persistent inability to feel known or understood or "safe" with my T (or with anyone else). It's gotten worse over the past 3 years, not better. What am I doing wrong?

What is it about validation that helps you? How do you cooperate with that process so that you feel better from it and grow closer to your T through it?

 

[shimmerz]

So for the T to "validate" emotions that he doesn't agree with seems dishonest to me.

This type of validation, to me, is not about the truth of the emotions that you are feeling but rather that you are allowed to feel those feelings. Whenever I have a problem with a word or concept, I try not to get stuck on it if possible because it literally keeps ME stuck. In those cases, I normally look for a word that fits better for me.

Just a suggestion, not sure if it would fit for you. I wonder if the word acknowledgement would feel better to you? If he acknowledged your feelings rather than validated them, do you think that might feel better to you?

Content edited pending link or confirmation of source: repost and include link/source, or open a help-ticket, including a link to this post, for more information.

 

[scout86]

Can I ask, "what makes something 'right'?" Your criteria. It's not, directly, what you asked, but maybe it's relevant.

 

[DogwoodTree]

Can I ask, "what makes something 'right'?" Your criteria.

This isn't infallible, but mostly I focus on logic. It's a constant search for the best logic which will result in knowing and understanding and using the best rules for the best outcome. What will be most beneficial to the most people without harming anyone? What will be the most efficient use of time and space? What will result in the greatest good? In some ways, this has worked very well for me. I've never gotten into trouble with drugs or alcohol or crime or promiscuity or anything that could have been outwardly destructive. But I've reached a stress point in my life where this approach is failing me because logic just can't seem to plow through the issues now.

I wonder if the word acknowledgement would feel better to you? If he acknowledged your feelings rather than validated them, do you think that might feel better to you?

That seems even more impersonal. Feelings not based in truth--in reality--leave me feeling adrift, as if I've lost touch with reality and conclude that nothing I'm thinking or feeling can be relied upon when those feelings are present. Then I lose my sense of self, and feel guilty for imposing such unfounded subjectivity on anyone. If I can't support my feelings with clear logic, then I shouldn't have them. There's no space for that. It's too much of a burden on everyone else, if my feelings are out of sync with objective reality.

 

[scout86]

If I can't support my feelings with clear logic, then I shouldn't have them.

I think it may be a fact that some things ARE subjective. There are colors I like, for example, for no reason I'm aware of other than that i like them. I think that's ok. I get to have a preference. So do you.

Where do feelings come from?

 

[Sideways]

f I can't support my feelings with clear logic, then I shouldn't have them.

Would understanding the role of feelings help?

Feelings are a source of information. They one of the sources of information we can use to identify things like: my needs aren't being met, my safety is at risk, this person is important to me, etc.

Feelings aren't, all on their own, supposed to be an exact replica od reality, they are often just helping hs understand whether something (including relationships) is working or not working for us.

Sometimes the message is complicated, sometimes it's not. But either way, feelings are just one more source of information on how to understand yourself and your relationship with the world. So, they aren't right or wrong, they're just information.

Acknowledging feelings is important because they tend to hang around and become more powerful and destructive if we try and ignore them. So, T's will often help us acknowledge that our feelings are there, so we notice them, and so we can use them. As a source of information.

 

[DogwoodTree]

There are colors I like, for example, for no reason I'm aware of other than that i like them. I think that's ok. I get to have a preference. So do you.

Having a color preference doesn't adversely affect anyone.

Feeling humiliated because my mom calls me handicapped at a business meeting, feeling angry because she makes digs at me, feeling frustrated because she does it so subtly that I can't call her on it without appearing overly sensitive and defensive, feeling afraid that I'm losing my mind when no one else picks up on these things, feeling isolated because I'm now questioning everything I thought to be real and everything I perceive and feel and think, feeling exhausted because this has been going on for years and I'm getting worse instead of better, feeling alone when I sit across from a trained therapist and yet can't communicate what's going on inside because I can't even remember my own thoughts when I'm trying to have a conversation with someone, feeling increasingly despaired and not sure there's any point in still trying, feeling like maybe I should just give up. These feelings are wrong. When I talk about them, people argue with me. Therefore, I conclude I shouldn't have these feelings, at least not for very long. And since I've been working on them for years and they're only getting stronger, obviously I'm doing something wrong.

My verbal communication skills are deteriorating, especially around family members or anyone else wanting to have an actual conversation. Whatever these emotions are trying to tell me, I've missed the message somehow.

T's will often help us acknowledge that our feelings are there, so we notice them, and so we can use them. As a source of information.

What do you do when they're telling you about a problem that you can't fix? I started trying to "sit with" my emotions back in 2010 when I had my first miscarriage. Because of various circumstances, that's morphed into "sitting with" the emotions brought up by past trauma and current problematic relationships. I try to listen to them, understand them, work with them, learn about myself through them. But there are things about me that simply aren't compatible with other people. I need more consistency than my T can offer. I need more space that what makes sense in a marriage. I need more autonomy than what my mother/boss is willing to give. I can't change those people, and shouldn't. So what do I do with the needs that can't be met? For that matter, what should they do with their needs that I can't meet? What about my DH, who has a strong sex drive and yet I can't be intimate with him? What happens to those emotions for him?

What do you do with the emotions that keep coming up over problems that can't be solved?

I understand the concept of grieving losses and moving on. I managed to complete that process with the miscarriages. But these are ongoing problems. Every time DH looks at me with that gawking, needy, regretful look...I feel ashamed and guilty and angry and sad. Every time my mom makes a poke because she thinks I'm trying to be hurtful to her, or because she thinks I'm an idiot...I try to separate my sense of reality from the messages she's giving. I've talked about this a great deal with all of those Ts. But I can't seem to make the break. I fall into that submissive position with her and take all the blame for all the problems, and completely lose my sense of self.

Maybe I really am the one who's crazy. At what point do you stop pointing the finger at everyone else and recognize you're the only common denominator? ...you're the one screwing everything up? If I'd just make myself adjust and be what they want me to be, like I did for 40 years, all of this would go away. They could all be happy again. I think eventually it would kill me, but at least they'd be happy in the meantime. Except I can't do it anymore. I try, and it doesn't work. I've lost too much functionality.

I don't often cry about it anymore. There's no point. It doesn't accomplish anything.

 

[Tinyflame]

Perhaps it ties in also with boundaries, and intention?

For example, your mom's happiness is her business. You are affected by and aware of the issues with your H. And you are working on them. In the meantime you'll likely feel many things.

But I'm sure no expert on emotions, and strongly feel my feelings reflect facts based on info/ logic. Disregard if not helpful.

:hug:

 

[DogwoodTree]

Perhaps it ties in also with boundaries, and intention?

For example, your mom's happiness is her business

The whole concept of boundaries has been very enlightening to me, and I'm getting better at understanding and holding healthy boundaries with most people. With my mom, though, it's been a deeply pervasive struggle. I can't seem to separate myself from her emotions. I try, and I coach myself through it, and my Ts have all reinforced this approach as well. But it isn't working. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

 

[scout86]

These feelings are wrong. When I talk about them, people argue with me. Therefore, I conclude I shouldn't have these feelings, at least not for very long.

Those feelings are wrong? They make perfect sense to me and seem quite reasonable, if unpleasant.

There seems to be a percentage of the population that will tell you your feelings are "wrong", or you're "wrong" yourself, just because they don't like what they're hearing. I don't think we necessarily have an obligation to tell people what they want to hear.

this has been going on for years and I'm getting worse instead of better,

I'm not sure if you're getting worse or not. That might depend on what you're looking for, when you think about "getting better". If "getting better" means that the way your mother treats you will no longer bother you....... Your T might have an entirely different idea of what "better" is. Because, at least IMO, the way your mother treats you is wrong. It's unfair and her assessment of you is inaccurate. She's got issues of her own that are probably beyond fixing. But, I'm not sure what your idea of getting better is.

I think I've said this before. What you've said about your mother reminds me a lot of mine. I was luckier, no family business to complicate things. I could move out and get away from her. Life away from her was an entirely different thing. I can't begin to tell you how different. Because MOST people didn't think I was as worthless as she did. MOST people didn't need, or want, to use me as their scapegoat. People, some of them, actually thought I was more or less ok. It was amazing. You're kind of stuck in a situation where you don't get to experience that. That's really too bad! Relationships with friends and family are supposed to help us feel accepted and "ok", not the reverse. But, I really don't think the problem is you.

What about my DH, who has a strong sex drive and yet I can't be intimate with him? What happens to those emotions for him?

I don't have any kind of answer for that one. I sort of wonder if those issues wouldn't be easier to work on if you didn't have you mother around to complicate your life. IDK

If I'd just make myself adjust and be what they want me to be, like I did for 40 years, all of this would go away. They could all be happy again. I think eventually it would kill me, but at least they'd be happy in the meantime. Except I can't do it anymore. I try, and it doesn't work. I've lost too much functionality.

See, I'm not sure it's "functionality" that you've lost. I wonder if it's not the blind acceptance that you and your feelings don't count. Maybe you're starting to notice that you HAVE feelings and starting to suspect yours are as worthwhile as anyone else's? You don't owe them your life. Really you don't. It's YOUR life. You have choices. You're entitled to have choices too. They may not like it. (Why would you mom want anything to change? She's had it her way all along and that's what she wants. Doesn't mean she's right.)

 

[Sideways]

What do you do when they're telling you about a problem that you can't fix? I

Often, I bring the problem here. It's not easy, and sometimes the "fix" is going to be a slow process.

The feelings you were describing with the way your mum speaks to you, for example. That's going to be a slow fix, but I would say that's a problem that does have solutions you could work towards. The feelings going along with that? They're important, because they're reminding you, "This isn't okay with me".

 

[DogwoodTree]

See, I'm not sure it's "functionality" that you've lost. I wonder if it's not the blind acceptance that you and your feelings don't count. Maybe you're starting to notice that you HAVE feelings and starting to suspect yours are as worthwhile as anyone else's?

The feelings going along with that? They're important, because they're reminding you, "This isn't okay with me".

This could be true. What do I do with it? How do I determine when I'm being overly sensitive vs. when my concerns are legitimate? What do I do with the emotions when someone else says I'm over-reacting because they don't see what I see about something my mom has said or done? How do I set boundaries with her when I can't identify what she does that's so hurtful until after it's over and I'm alone and have time to think it over? ...and when she's "nice" in the way she treats me, but subtly manipulative and condescending in it, and when I call her on it, she explains it away as if I'm the one who's crazy?