Relationship Can we talk about cognitive distortion?

[Hojay]

I’m gathering a lot of useful info here, thanks to everyone!

I wonder, what else does your supporter do when you’re in the throws of distortion? (As far as one can be aware of being in it, that is.) What’s helpful, what’s harmful? Short term, long term?

 

[lostforgottensoul]

but he's not in any sort of treatment, nor is he reading any books I know he knows about or is active in any support groups

He NEEDS to be in treatment. He may not see that but he does to truely heal and be healthy. I was just saying in another thread that a relationship is only as healthy as it's most unhealthy member just like a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. Not that he is weak but certianly very unhealthy, doing unhealthy things, and having unhealthy dynamics. I haven't read all of the replies so this may have already been asked and answered. We spoke a bit about helping him feel safe seeking therapy and how to get you guys in couples counseling but if that's not working and you guys cannot go on like this. What happens if you set a strict boundry? "If we are going to continue being in this relationship, you need to seek therapy". You aren't forcing him to or even telling him to. What you are doing is stating you will only continue the relationship if he seeks help. And if he doesn't, you will end the relationship. Scary thought, I know but I was forced into therapy the exact same way (and was facing being on the street and kicked out of my dad's house) but sometimes it takes that sort of boundry to get someone to face their huge fear of help and man am I glad my dad did that today! I think I would have completed suicide way before now if he didn't. Sometimes "tough love" and a very scary boundry is needed. A 2nd boundry would be that he stay in therapy to continue the relationship.

 

[Hojay]

@lostforgottensoul Thank you so much for taking the time to focus on this specific aspect. All the roads lead back to treatment, or the lack thereof. So really I can think about cognitive distortions etc. till I'm blue in the face--treatment is what it's all about...

I was just saying in another thread that a relationship is only as healthy as it's most unhealthy member just like a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.

This is very wise and true!!

What happens if you set a strict boundry?

Here is what I told him about 1 1/2 weeks ago:
I cannot force you to go back to treatment. But I myself can choose to not want to be in relationship with untreated PTSD. So I will have to make a choice.

His response: So you're making me choose!
Me: No, I'm telling you I have to choose.

I think he grasped what I was saying. That's the status quo. He knows I will potentially, soon decide to end this. But unless I actually choose to leave, it's really an empty gesture. I'm aware of that.

Here are two things he has to say about this: 1. He won't ever, under any circumstance, let himself be forced into something (stemming from CSA and recent therapist re-abuse) and 2. If he's going to start therapy it's going to be on HIS terms and when HE decides it's the right time.

Every time I bring it up, that is what he reverts to. He can't talk about it without feeling pressured and most often that only sets him/us back (e.g. feeling pressured = unsafe = triggered.) Also, every time I bring it up he loses a little more trust in me that I truly grasped what that therapist did to him. In other words, if I really understood and didn't minimize what happened, I'd be more patient and understanding of his current fears of going back.

This happens no matter how kind and understanding I am, and how much I validate his fears and hesitations. I don't minimize and I do understand, but of course I can't change how he feels.

So it all comes down to me not bringing it up again (because I have) and making that choice (because I said I will.) The tricky part is, he's been giving me just enough hope to suspect he may actually restart treatment soonish. So when do I decide it's not going to happen and leave...

It would be a lot easier if he were categorically against it. But he's currently lingering somewhere between "never again!" and "when I think it's the right time, I'll go back"...again, when to say it's not going to happen and make that choice to leave?

On top of it all, the treatment he's received in the country he lives in has been abject shite. I'm not a novice when it comes to treatment and therapists and I can objectively say, even before that Therapist from Hell screwed him over, he wasn't in great hands. So in all honesty, I can actually fully understand his fears, not only from being re-abused, but for just wasting his time and not even experiencing baby steps toward improvement in the 2 years he was in therapy. He's been open to some therapist suggestions I have made (sadly the most promising looking wasn't taking new patients,) but really...I myself have lost faith in the level of care that is available to him over there...ugh.

 

[Freida]

I get that he is scared --- and I think he knows you understand that. So how does some one get over a phobia? I had one about hosptilas (long story) and I had to do exposure therapy. little bits.
over about 10 weeks...

Drive into the hospital parking lot and drive out
Park and then drive out
park and get out of car then leave
park and get out of car...walk to curb.. then leave
park..get out of car..walk to front door..touch handle.leave
and so on until I could walk into a room without having a panic attack.

Am I still afraid of hospitals? Yep. Can I handle the fear? Yep.

He is never not going to be afraid. But like all things ptsd he has to learn to cope with the fear.

Another thought --- The first time I ran away from home it was because hubby refused to go to counseling. Yea - backwards huh?
I hadn't been diagnosed so I thought I was miserable because of him. I kept bugging him about marriage counseling and he kept dragging his feet. One day I couldn't stand it anymore and I just took off. Called him that night and told him I didn't know if I was coming back. I loved him but couldn't live like this anymore. It wasn't an ultimatum. It was just a fact. It took him three days to make the call and set up an appointment and then I agreed to come home ...for a while.

I get what he is saying about you "making" him go to counseling. So maybe the phrase you need to use is more like mine...

I'm not happy. You are making me responsible for our relationship. I need to show me that you want to be in this marriage. I don't care what path you choose to get us there but I need something to show me you are committed to us. So it's up to you to come up with some ideas on how to save us.

or something like that...

 

[Hojay]

I had to do exposure therapy. little bits.

This makes total sense, Freida! I told him that it would be an option to call a few new therapists tell them about his worries (i.e. him thinking they're all abusers,) and let them propose a solution. He could just do phone conversations for starters, or work via skype, until he's comfortable to give it a try in person. He said "hm" with that glum level look he gets when he knows I'm making complete sense, but he's not going to show it. So that's something...

One day I couldn't stand it anymore and I just took off.

I think my situation will end up just like this. Right now, things are relatively calm. He has episodes but is catching himself. I know this isn't going to last and the next major episode, isolation, whathaveyou, is on the horizon, so I think, well, that's going to be the day I'll react just as you said you did. It'll be natural..."either you do something about this to keep us together, or not." Right now, at this point, it would be a completely out of the blue and inorganic gesture. When he's symptomatic up to the gills, it won't be. It's also taken me quite a while to understand what's going on with him in terms of going to therapy or not...so it's all, you know, coming to a head soon :(

 

[Hojay]

@Freida, actually, come to think of it, when he's symptomatic and flashbacking out of his mind, I know I'll be super hesitant to lay down the law in that way. So I'll most likely wait until he's relatively calm again and say it then. At that point, though, I've been supportive, loving and patient for however long it took him to catch himself...which will make it strange and extra confusing for him (and me) when I suddenly tell him I can't do this anymore.

I think what I'm saying is...as a supporter timing is always a factor. You don't want to make it an episode worse (because what he needs is space not a breakup) and you never want to cause one (which is what I'd do if I laid down the law when he's just recovered again)...so the right timing and the right words are always tricky business.

 

[scout86]

I can relate to how he feels. It was nearly impossibly hard to contact my T the first time and actually keeping the appointment was one of the hardest things I've ever done. What helped was me, telling myself no one could make me stay and I was free to leave ANY TIME I WANTED TO. It was still hard. My T is a great guy, I mostly trust him, and I actually like him. If it had turned out otherwise? I probably wouldn't have given it another shot. But, if it had turned out otherwise, the guy I'm seeing now would still have existed out there in the world somewhere, you know?

That one T who wasn't taking any new clients, could they recommend someone else? It seems like people in the field know other people in the field and they know who's ok and who's not.

It's easy to stay stuck with "I'll do it when I'm ready." and that seems to be where he's at. Would he agree to do SOMETHING? Like, maybe, researching T's? Would he be ok with setting some sort of small, initial goal, that he could actually meet, and that would show you he's serious? I thinking starting with a new T by explaining what happened before, and establishing, in no uncertain terms, what he's ok with and what he's not, is a great idea. He's got to know that he's got control of the situation.

 

[Freida]

I think what I'm saying is...as a supporter timing is always a factor.

and this is why supporters continue to amaze me. I can't imagine having that much patience!! But you are right - a good conversation when he is calm is better.....

It was nearly impossibly hard to contact my T the first time and actually keeping the appointment was one of the hardest things I've ever done.

Calling the VA crisis line was one of the hardest things I've ever done --- and I only did it because hubby was so worried about me. Then going to that first appointment?? if he hadn't gone with me I would have bolted right out the door. It took a year before I stopped shaking in the waiting room So yea, I agree with @scout86 that if it hadn't gone well I don't know that I would have wanted to go back. But I also knew I couldn't keep going on the way I was because it was destroying both me and my marriage.

 

[Hojay]

You raise a couple of really good points, scout. It's really helpful to hear some calm reasoning from the other side from both of you!

What helped was me, telling myself no one could make me stay and I was free to leave ANY TIME I WANTED TO.

This brings up a really important issue here, I think. Control. He thinks he has none. He didn't have any as a kid and he reaffirmed to himself that he didn't have any with the last therashit (sorry, the more I talk about him, the angrier I get.) It seems like his refusal to go back right now is him asserting control over himself and his environment. It's a constant effort of mine to point out to him all the areas he has control over, including, how he interacts with T's, what he shares, for how long etc. He seems to have some all-or-nothing thinking here. He doesn't see the nuances in a therapeutic setting, which would translate to his own power and control over situations. Complicated.

That one T who wasn't taking any new clients, could they recommend someone else?

Good point! Do you think it would be appropriate for me to get in touch with them and ask for a recommendation? Or would that be a breach of trust, i.e. getting too involved? My normal person instinct would say it's alright. My PTSD-dar is telling me to tread carefully.

Would he agree to do SOMETHING? Like, maybe, researching T's? Would he be ok with setting some sort of small, initial goal, that he could actually meet, and that would show you he's serious?

Good idea also...right now, though, I think that would all fall under the "pressure" umbrella. He can't even really talk about it straight without nearing an episode and he's still very much beating the "at my pace!" drum, so I think he'd only agree to this if he himself came up with the idea. If that makes sense...

 

[Hojay]

I can't imagine having that much patience!!

But you do! Look at the hell you've put yourself through to keep your marriage together. Supporters need to have patience. That's hard. But sufferers need to have patience AND cojones of steel to brave this mess, so... :)

 

[Snowflakes]

Here is what I told him about 1 1/2 weeks ago:
I cannot force you to go back to treatment. But I myself can choose to not want to be in relationship with untreated PTSD. So I will have to make a choice.

His response: So you're making me choose!
Me: No, I'm telling you I have to choose.

I think he grasped what I was saying. That's the status quo. He knows I will potentially, soon decide to end this. But unless I actually choose to leave, it's really an empty gesture. I'm aware of that.

Here are two things he has to say about this: 1. He won't ever, under any circumstance, let himself be forced into something (stemming from CSA and recent therapist re-abuse) and 2. If he's going to start therapy it's going to be on HIS terms and when HE decides it's the right time.

@Hojay This ^^^ is what took me a long time to grasp.....but I finally did. I never told my sufferer that she had to be in therapy or I would leave. My boundary was that I needed to be treated with reasonable respect and, if she was going to lash out at me while symptomatic, I needed an acknowledgement when she was not symptomatic. While I didn’t physically walk out the door, I emotionally left the relationship. I couldn’t make her do something or anything as part of my boundary....that looked to much like control and I do not have a need for control.

And your sufferer is correct. He should start therapy on his terms and when he decides the time is right. In my case, my sufferer decided to come clean with her therapist and take everything seriously when faced with my action of emotionally checking out. It takes 2 for a relationship to work and trust is the glue that holds it together. I can do most anything in a relationship as long as I believe I’m not doing it alone. But she must do her part because she wants to, not because I want her to.

Yes, PTSD is hard on the one who suffers from it but PTSD doesn’t rob a person of their intelligence and choices. Choices when they’re not symptomatic.

Mine made a choice when I finally had enough and refused to be abused further. Hopefully, she continues. If not, I will never be abused again....with or without her.

 

[scout86]

Do you think it would be appropriate for me to get in touch with them and ask for a recommendation?

Who contacted them in the first place? If he did, maybe you could suggest to him that he could contact them looking for referrals. He's an adult, he really needs to step up and take responsibility.

When I first contacted my T, I had a pretty good idea I had PTSD. Thought I had it handled. And I'd spent a couple months researching "best methods of suicide". LOL And, also considering the possibility of trying something different for a change. (Therapy) Found my T's web site, and he had a way to contact him online. I wrote a bunch of emails and deleted them. One day, I accidentally hit "send". :wideeyed: :bag: :banghead: He replied, almost right away, and what he said made all the difference. "If what you have is PTSD, I can tell you this. It will affect more aspects of your life than you know, and it won't go away by itself." That wasn't exactly what I wanted to hear, but it pretty bluntly confronted me with the choice.

It's REALLY easy to put this stuff off. I guess maybe that doesn't make sense to "normal people". I've found the best way to work through that is by taking tiny steps. So, in his case, I'd suggest something like, "Look, I know this is really hard for you and I get why it is. Here's the thing, it's hard for me too and I need to know that you're actually committed to our relationship, which means you have to be committed to improving the way you handle PTSD. Would you make a commitment to taking steps towards getting help?" I'd like to think he'd say "yes". Then come up with a specific commitment. Have him pick a date by which he'll have a list of possible T's. Then, as step 2, a plan for interviewing potential T's, etc. Specific small steps, specific time line. Specific response by you. Unless you're ok with the relationship going on like it is forever. That's an option. But, if that's not what you want, you need a date and a consequence (positive or negative).

Instead of him committing to PTSD work, you could have him commit to relationship work, as a start. You could ask him to commit to relationship work and YOU make the appointment, if that works better, but, if he wants control, fine. It's just that procrastinating, in this case, is a passive aggressive from of control that's kind of dishonest and doesn't accomplish anything. Choices are great, but "Not making a choice" is also a choice, just not a good one.

Anyway, if it works for you to help him come up with a list of potential T's, I think it would be fine for you to contact that office, but I wouldn't do it behind his back.