News Us politics - read first post before comment

[Muttly]

One more thought, for those saying that these kids shouldn't be speaking because they aren't old enough. No, they aren't old enough to vote. They can't run for most (if not all) political offices. The age of majority doesn't determine who is allowed to protest. So they are doing what they legally can. Those of us who are over 18 are still the ones making the decisions. We are still the ones holding the power. We can still make our own, informed decisions. So what's the threat and harm from them speaking up and exercising what political rights they do have?

 

[hodge]

Anyone want to speculate on what shiny object will be thrown out today to distract us from Stormy's "60 Minutes" interview tonight?

Rachel Maddow has money on pardoning Mike Flynn.

Hubby thinks John Kelly, and maybe another person, will be fired.

I can't even speculate, just praying it doesn't involve nukes or any other military action.

 

[Deleted member 46276]

@Muttly said "How do you know he was kicked out of the house he was staying in after he was orphaned? The way I read it, he chose to leave."

I looked again and he was definitely close to mother that just died and was definitely kicked out of place he moved into after his second parent had died.

Plus he had depression, cut himself, probably had tried to kill himself, was very upset about not having a girlfriend, etc

Of course all of this is no excuse at all in any way to shoot up some place.

But I feel like if ostracized 120lb kid with lots of issues is hurting badly, the natural people to support him and befriend him to make him feel not so alone are people like the equally skinny effeminate theater kid (Hogg) or the bisexual girl with the shaved head (Gonzalez).

Just saying that something seems amiss with the very people who might have prevented this by being nice and accepting and caring are people who are becoming heroes to much of the world because they seemingly didn't lift a finger to help a fellow strange person who did not have the places to go to be supported that they did

 

[Slushie]

I believe Gonzalez and others like her are merely Crisis Actors.

 

[joeylittle]

because they seemingly didn't lift a finger to help a fellow strange person

Fellow strange person is an odd way of putting it. I think you're conflating two issues.

Plus he had depression, cut himself, probably had tried to kill himself, was very upset about not having a girlfriend, etc

This has nothing to do with being an outsider - (I'm assuming that's what you mean by strange) - it's mental illness.

Think about it this way: you're here because you have PTSD, I'm assuming. If you were in the middle of a bunch of rough symptoms, would you be capable of noticing that someone else in your sphere was in need of crisis intervention? If so, you're a better human than I am, certainly.

But I feel like if ostracized 120lb kid with lots of issues is hurting badly, the natural people to support him and befriend him to make him feel not so alone are people like the equally skinny effeminate theater kid (Hogg) or the bisexual girl with the shaved head (Gonzalez).

Somehow, this achieves equal-opportunity offensiveness. So the kid weighs 120lbs. Take mental illness off the table for a second, because there's nothing about the other two that says 'mental illness'. What you're saying is that the student who looked different on the outside, because he was skinny, should have been helped by other skinny people and/or people who are not heterosexual? People who shave their heads?

I understand what you are trying to say, I think - you're saying that the other outsiders should have reached out to him. And I'm saying that:
- you can't assume those other students had 'outsider' identification, just because you think they look like they should.
- if they did all have internal struggles with mental illness in common, it's not at all logical to presume that other people struggling are capable of putting on someone else's oxygen mask first. It makes more sense to say the well-adjusted students should have reached out.
- "equally skinny effeminate", "bisexual girl w/shaved head", "depressed, self-harming, suicidal-thinking"...none of these things equal "strange person". Catch up, it's the 21st century.

 

[hodge]

I have been in so much pain I've not cared whether I died. And most of it came from other people doing me wrong. All that pain never, ever caused me to even think of hurting others. There is no excuse for what that kid did. And the kids who are responding are simply being good, conscientious citizens. I am very proud of them.

 

[Deleted member 46276]

I believe Gonzalez and others like her are merely Crisis Actors.

The one guy says he's been involved in plays and theater since kindergarten and they seem to have already been involved in liberal type causes before this. I don't think they are crisis actors, but I do think there is an element of this being their big break into celebrity and fame and history and future careers. I think they all do believe in the cause, but I think also they are grabbing the spotlight to secure their own futures

 

[Muttly]

@Endofwar I fully agree with what @joeylittle said. How do you know those kids were ostracized or even considered strange by their classmates? Your the first person I've heard refer to Gonzalas as bisexual so I'm not taking that as fact, but even assuming she was, so what? The high school kids, that I know, in this small town would have no issues with that. And having a shaved head? Enh, that might not have been a big deal either. Theater kid? My niece was a theater kid and she, nor her female or male fellow theater kids, did not feel ostracized or strange. They were such a tight-knit group they felt pretty dang accepted. Oh, and as far as effeminate goes... the high schoolers I know don't seem to get worked up about that and especially theater kids. I think you are judging based on your experiences and biases. You don't know their experiences and biases.

How do you know their paths even crossed enough that they would be able to reach out to Cruz. And why is it their responsibility? If they bullied him, then that was wrong, but that wouldn't make them responsible for what happened. And if they didn't bully him they aren't responsible for what happened either.

And yes, everything I've read, said he was close to his mother. Nothing I've read, so far, said he was kicked out of the family friend's house. All the articles I've read said he asked to stay with a friend. Whichever it is, Cruz had a lot of horrible life experiences and the system failed him. That is clear.

 

[Sideways]

I’m just gonna throw it out there, from someone who doesn’t live in the US:

Kids having problems at home, kids getting bullied, kids being ostracised? None of those are American problems. They happen everywhere.

High school masacres on the other hand? Don’t happen everywhere. Most countries? They don’t happen ever. Mass shootings, by students, in schools - are a pretty unique problem to the US.

So, while I understand that the child’s social situation was almost certainly a significant contributing factor? There is something else, something different in the US, that shifts those types of traumatic childhood experiences, and results in a mass shooting. So fixing the blame on those social problems? Doesn’t seem to me to be the core issue. It’s the ‘something else’.

 

[hodge]

Thank you for your outside perspective, @Sideways. I so wish we knew what that "something else" is. The only thing I can think of is a kind of copycat thing. But why is that unique to the U.S.? Even then, there's still something else. Now that the CDC is again allowed to study this, maybe greater minds than mine will begin to figure this out. I so hope so.

 

[Sideways]

@hodge - idk. But with a problem of this magnitude? This complex? The ‘something else’ is most likely a combination of things, not a single something that the blame can be laid on in its entirety.

The one thing that does appear universal? Is the will to change whatever the something is. Everyone seems to be united in understanding that the deaths of schoolchildren needs to end. That’s something to hold onto.

 

[Muttly]

@Sideways Thank you for your clarity. I completely agree and have had the same general thoughts, but haven't been able to make it into a cohesive statement like you did.