Are you thinking of harming yourself?

[Tinyflame]

I hope it will for you @Glo809 . :hug:

 

[EveHarrington]

So are you waiting around for the “perfect” kind of help?

(It’s not coming.)

We live in an imperfect world where people who don’t understand try their best to care.

And for most of us, we have to make the best of it.

My best friends know nothing about trauma, but they do their best to support me. I just spent a week in a non-trauma-specific mental hospital and they did their best to support me. I am now in a non-trauma-specific partial hospitalization program and they are doing their best to support me.

We can kick and scream about how we aren’t getting the exact kind of support that we need, but this will get us nowhere. Do your venting and then learn how to accept non-perfect support. It’s the best you’re going to get.

 

[Stephernovas]

It’s the best you’re going to get.

Now how does that effect change? If all those people affected by the mental asylums way back in they day accepted that line, then we wouldn't have the progressive mental health care we do now. I'm always being told to accept what's there, and that's as good as it's going to get. WRONG. If we have to learn to adapt to certain things, others can learn too.

 

[Tinyflame]

Idk I set a date. Is that right or is that wrong? , I truly don't know. I can always move the date.

 

[ButterflyBean]

@Junebug - if you set a date, someone can take that as you having a plan or intent; I sincerely hope that is not the case! Doing so is not wrong, but be careful if that is not your intention to get such a thing across!

 

[Tinyflame]

Oh it's ok @HollyBeans27 I wouldn't be talking about it. Thanks anyway.

ETA, I should add, I think 'thinking' is 'thinking', and though personally I recognize worse signs, such as not caring if I 'fail' and am left a vegetable, or methods I'd not have considered before, and conversely I think it's preferable to shoot for dates to stay alive, on the other hand, there was a saying (years ago, I think it was AA or Al Anon), ~ "You can bear everything you know you have to do for a lifetime". And I always felt, no, I can bear the unbearable when I know there's an end date.

I think there is a lack of understanding of the depths and breadths of the suffering associated with ptsd and other things (I'm sure I can't begin to grasp all of others' suffering, either). But I think that's where the lack of understanding primarily lays, and much of the hopelessness, too. Because it's easier to say depression, than address 'returning to your life with more troubles than ever, now what?', as @Stephernovas said. (Obviously the ideal being overcoming something and returning with new methods, new thoughts, more resources or strengths). But in many cases I think it's like recommending people to hospice or palliative care resources when that is not going to be an option for most; great on paper, zero use irl. And many irl know it. Not negative thinking, just clued-in to the reality of resources/ connections/ whether you would have the option. So many agree, the discussion ends, but little changes. Like saying food ends starvation.

That being said, a logical, forthright discussion as regards this seems preferable than bs, if one is trying to find ways to overcome it. But the same reason no one is responsible, if someone makes their mind up they're not going to likely telegraph it.

 

[blackemerald1]

Idk I set a date. Is that right or is that wrong? , I truly don't know. I can always move the date.

Sorry @Junebug I have the same idea as you^^^ except..

I do it as a pseudo coping method lol. So I will set a date like 2 months down the track. I don't write it anywhere and I don't tell anyone. It's just a way of saying right now I cannot deal with this going on forever...so I will set a date and decide that I will decide then.

I guess what I am hoping for is some type of difference in terms of how I am coping. Quite often nothing much has changed but I am less reactionary?

So I put off the decision making. Is this screwed up or what?

Well it's worked so far:rolleyes:

 

[Still Standing]

This is an interesting thread...one that I would not have expected for some to be so honest about. I find it interesting that some of you set dates for your demise. For me, that would be adding more pressure to my already over flowing bucket of blackness. When I am struggling with feelings of suicide, if I were to follow through, it would be "in the moment"...a "just do it" mentality. It is with much effort that I refrain from following through and part of that strength, not to make an attempt, has been fear. When this state of mind is active, no one knows. It has always been a lonely fight, until I started therapy, last year. Now the T will often asked if I have been having suicidal thoughts. I have tried to be honest in my responses. I have always had a sense of fear and desperation when suicide becomes a real thing to me...until recently. This last bout of suicidal ideation was one of no emotion. It was coldly, clinical. There was no black hole, no fear, no emotion, no "what-ifs", no regret,...nothing. It was simply a choice. Do it or don't do it. There was no planning. It would have been done in the moment, quickly, with no delay. Obviously, I chose not to do it 'cause I am still here. But, the lack of emotion made this type of suicidal ideation seem more serious and real to me. My T knows about this last bout but we have not talked about it. For me, this last type of SI is more serious than my previous ones. But, how does one share stuff like this with "regular" people? All it does is make them uncomfortable and makes me look like a weakling. It changes, forever, how friends view you. So, the thoughts of harming myself is my secret battle and mine alone. Yikes! I have shared more here than I would otherwise.

 

[blackemerald1]

I get what you are saying about setting dates creating more pressure. But for me and idk why...it takes the pressure off. I guess as I said it is a delaying tactic and it works. I get to the date and assess my situation and think nah... not necessary. But I do allow myself the option of setting another date to assess myself. Of course as I said, I tell no one.

I'm being honest here because at times the struggle I have with mental health, ptsd etc., is so tiring and I am too exhausted to untangle myself from it and lead anywhere near a normal life. I know other ppl think about it and I have known ppl who have done it. Most of all I have seen what it does to families left behind and if anything that gives me pause...in terms of myself. But I am conflicted bc this is my life and I am not staying alive for anyone else. In fact in my worst moments I truly believe that they would all be far better off it I wasn't alive. That is why I set the date. In the meantime I keep working on tidying things up and not leaving too much of a mess behind me. Oddly, as each day passes and with this renewed sense of purpose the act of fixing things around me etc., actually lifts me away from the date.

I am not teetering on the brink of a suicide date all year round. But, delaying does work for me. I could see why it may not work for other's. Going into hospital and being filled up with drugs is certainly no answer. (Tried that and been there) It doesn't work for me. I cannot be hospitalised for ever.

how does one share stuff like this with "regular" people? All it does is make them uncomfortable

I agree with you @Still Standing - I cannot share this with regular people. They don't get it at all. But really I don't want to hear all the 'feel good' things they say either. I am not in that positive thinking space and beyond caring anyway.

It changes, forever, how friends view you.

Agree with you on this too^^ - The times I have made attempts and been revived...oh ugh! ..the condemnation is so intense. It is all about them and 'how could you' etc., and no...they have never let me move on. It is like I let them down and it pisses me off. They have no compassion or understanding and I think at the moment I really can understand why they wouldn't understand what puts me in that frame of mind. They think I am untrustworthy particularly coming from my background. When I think really I am more honest than them. I don't feel like anyone could really save me from myself if I decided it was time to go and made another attempt. Yep it is lonely.

 

[Tinyflame]

I guess what I am hoping for is some type of difference in terms of how I am coping. Quite often nothing much has changed but I am less reactionary?

So I put off the decision making. Is this screwed up or what?

I don't think it's screwed up @blackemerald1 if it works for you.. I think I understand what you mean, or what @Still Standing means tempted in the moment. I view that more in terms of emotional regulation. Yes I do think no emotion is more dangerous.

I myself don't really play around with dates, only did it once and it wasn't a date/ day I set, really, but a milestone of sorts that would take an approximate amount of time, and then to re-evaluate and if it was the same or worse, forget it. As I say, Idk if it's wrong or not. As to taking the pressure off for you @blackemerald1 , I don't think so.

Personally I just waited 6 1/2 years for an opportunity to try to dig myself out- it tanked - funny thing was I never expected it was likely, but I hoped the opportunity would give me just enough wiggle room to fight for it. But no, it's not possible. It was followed by lots of recriminations, rage, accusations (much as you said post-attempt) by the only family I have (any/ all of which would hope I was deceased, frankly. Not depression talking there- reality. And that fact most people can't understand from their life-experiences).

So maybe thing will change later, or maybe they won't, for me. Maybe Herculean effort will finally produce, or not at all. Or maybe with less effort, something will turn that I can't imagine now. Or maybe I will just say, 'enough'. Idk.

So back to the OP's question, I can only imagine that the only usefulness of being asked that question or answering semi-honestly even would be if anyone actually cared, or if you were trying to work with someone (they were working with you like a T) to find a solution or formulate a plan or gauge how to pace your therapy, etc. I don't even have a number for a Crisis Plan, which is pitiful indeed, and makes me feel worse. But on the other hand, I suppose a good thing.

 

[joeylittle]

Great discussion, here.

I do it as a pseudo coping method lol. So I will set a date like 2 months down the track. I don't write it anywhere and I don't tell anyone. It's just a way of saying right now I cannot deal with this going on forever...so I will set a date and decide that I will decide then.

This is pretty common. Probably, the folks who study suicidal behavior would say that it's not a great coping mechanism, because it desensitizes the person to the concept of a timeline. On the other hand, I think the same people would say, "any port in a storm".

What is generally true is, a future-date does not indicate an active plan. So, someone evaluating whether or not you were in danger, would factor that in with all the other elements. For instance, if you had constant and ready access to your means, were ruminating, had a past attempt, and had already put things in order? They would be assessing whether or not you're likely to wait for your date. It's complicated stuff, and it gets hard because we - the suicidal thinker - may believe we are very experienced at managing our suicidal thoughts; but sometimes, we are wrong about that.

For me, that would be adding more pressure to my already over flowing bucket of blackness. When I am struggling with feelings of suicide, if I were to follow through, it would be "in the moment"...a "just do it" mentality. It is with much effort that I refrain from following through and part of that strength, not to make an attempt, has been fear.

And, this is pretty common, too. Fear is often the common denominator - and it's a good, strong tool. It's OK to be afraid to follow through. It's good to be afraid. Fear is a strong thing.

This last bout of suicidal ideation was one of no emotion. It was coldly, clinical. There was no black hole, no fear, no emotion, no "what-ifs", no regret,...nothing. It was simply a choice. Do it or don't do it. There was no planning. It would have been done in the moment, quickly, with no delay. Obviously, I chose not to do it 'cause I am still here. But, the lack of emotion made this type of suicidal ideation seem more serious and real to me. My T knows about this last bout but we have not talked about it. For me, this last type of SI is more serious than my previous ones. But, how does one share stuff like this with "regular" people?

I wanted to comment on this, to validate your feeling that it was more serious/more real.

When you live with suicidal ideation, you become very familiar with your own thought patterns. When they change - that's a real warning sign, and you're right to take it seriously. I really hope you can talk with your T about it, how it felt different, and tease out what those changes might be relating to. Also - if you have easy access to high-lethality means, it's important that you block that access.

Your last question - how does one share this stuff with regular people...I think, at the level of ideation you are describing, 'regular' people aren't equipped to deal with it. BUT - if you are experiencing that kind of thinking again, and you only feel like you can reach out to a regular person - do it. Reach out. Sometimes, there are consequences. But the big goal is to survive the wave of ideation. You don't actually want to be dead, you want to feel better. When we think being dead is the rational way to feel better, or the only door we have left - we aren't thinking clearly. We are thinking with our depression.

 

[Still Standing]

Hmmmm.... In response to what you had to say, @joeylittle, I am impressed, seriously so. It is not a subject easily talked about "in the open." But, I will consider what you shared. I've already walked through the most recent SI and since it changed in character, I will be more aware of the importance to contact my psych doc if it happens again. You write like you are in the mental health field...at least you are able to explain and express things in a relatable way that people outside of our struggles do not "get". Thanks.