Home life not going well

[Teamwork]

I live with my 22 yr old daughter who also has autism. When she gets premenstrual things get very bad quickly in conversations. She unleashes a lot of talk that triggers me into apology mode, or stammering, or crying, or just total confusion. I have in my google calendar a reminder to get some space when this is about to occur, but after that I’m lost. Yesterday the blow up lasted all day and I saw a knife sitting on the counter and picked up and had the strong urge to slash my arm. She reacted in anger. Don’t you dare threaten suicide, I don’t want your death on my hands. It startled me back to reality that I had become too dysregulated in the conversation and we separated for a bit. I did apologize. We are stuck in this cycle though. With autism they say whatever they are thinking. No filter. She was carrying on about not being wanted in the family. But mostly she says things like, there you go crying, or there you go changing your mind and just saying you won’t do this or that again. When things start to escalate it goes quickly. I go triggered pretty fast and can’t get anywhere near getting out of the conversation. Need some tips on what ground rules we can use . She does not understand pointing out my behavior in a triggered state is also triggering and I can’t seem to do anything other than rapidly try to stop doing whatever she is pointing out. Like if she says now you are crying I immediately stop and say there I’m not anymore. I’m being brutally honest how messed up I feel and how lost I am in getting through. When she is not pms she is less volatile and has clearer thinking.

 

[blackemerald1]

Hey @Teamwork - sounds like a really intense relationship. I am not aware of your diagnosis...so forgive me for asking but do you have ptsd and are you receiving treatment or therapy for it?

Does your daughter work? - How do you manage the domestic divide when you are both not so reactive and calmer? Do you receive any assistance from a third party, friend or relative to give you some respite from the carer role you have? Do you get any support at all?

It seems like she is really honing in on what you are doing during these moments and you are behaving very much like a domestic abuse victim in some ways. Eg. adjusting your behaviour to appease the observation or criticism and avoid escalation.

Is this crisis/meltdown pattern only happening when your daughter has pms or is this behaviour indicative of the communication pattern but less severe at other times?

You mentioned in your OP that you grabbed a knife. I think it is indicative of how stressed out you are getting that you reacted in this way albeit a inappropriate coping method I'm sure you will agree.

You are correct. You do need some good advice and some in real world support. Have you considered therapy for your daughter and yourself with someone who can assist and support you both. Ideally someone who has a good knowledge of autism and how to manage/establish boundaries and also advise you on respite.

PMS can certainly effect relationships negatively but really it is getting drastic when she is unleashing for a whole day.

I'm glad you reached out. ((hugs))

 

[Teamwork]

Hey @Teamwork - sounds like a really intense relationship. I am not aware of your diagnosis...so forgive me for asking but do you have ptsd and are you receiving treatment or therapy for it?

Does your daughter work? - How do you manage the domestic divide when you are both not so reactive and calmer? Do you receive any assistance from a third party, friend or relative to give you some respite from the carer role you have? Do you get any support at all?

It seems like she is really honing in on what you are doing during these moments and you are behaving very much like a domestic abuse victim in some ways. Eg. adjusting your behaviour to appease the observation or criticism and avoid escalation.

Is this crisis/meltdown pattern only happening when your daughter has pms or is this behaviour indicative of the communication pattern but less severe at other times?

You mentioned in your OP that you grabbed a knife. I think it is indicative of how stressed out you are getting that you reacted in this way albeit a inappropriate coping method I'm sure you will agree.

You are correct. You do need some good advice and some in real world support. Have you considered therapy for your daughter and yourself with someone who can assist and support you both. Ideally someone who has a good knowledge of autism and how to manage/establish boundaries and also advise you on respite.

PMS can certainly effect relationships negatively but really it is getting drastic when she is unleashing for a whole day.

I'm glad you reached out. ((hugs))

Complex trauma ptsd, yes domestic violence. Sometimes she reminds me of him in these situations. We both have separate therapy. Her guy does cbt with her but my understanding is they talk about her dad all the time. She would in my assessment have great difficulty telling her therapist accurately what is going on at home as she blames me . If I didn’t react this way she would be fine. She does have a lot of care respite. Happens that this week she has had no programs running to go to. She has internal guilt. Ie she knows she does very little around the house,is hyper focused to her world doesn’t like to be interrupted or asked to do things, so if even the slightest hint comes up in conversation she pounces on it saying you think statements. You think I’m overweight youthink im ungrateful. I never do anything right, can never satisfy you. This all drives me right into some space I cant get out of. Yes the knife thing. In all honesty these thoughts, killing myself, banging my head on the wall or slashing the wrist, come up in my thoughts when the situation gets intense. Its not clear to me why I dont leave other than she tens to remark, oh so you get to say when the conversation ends, so of course I go back and stand there being submissive. I can see that after but cannot figure out how to not do any of this. As to the thoughts, I do not act on them. Just so happens last night I did pick the knife up, it was a close call and a wake up call that I have no thought out plans on how to navigate my own behavior when this starts. I need a preemptive strike instead of submissive.

 

[blackemerald1]

She unleashes a lot of talk that triggers me into apology mode, or stammering, or crying, or just total confusion.

Hmm...sorry this type of "talk" is abusive. It might have been learned from her father. It needs to be unlearned somehow.

You apologise, stammer, cry and become confused because you are being verbally assaulted and you want to
deescalate and survive. This might be your 'go to' coping strategy to get her to back-down or make her think she has 'won'...whatever - it is designed to not confront her. And it's not acceptable for her to do this to you.

And regardless of her autism (and I don't know where on the spectrum she is of course) - She cannot be led to believe that this is what you do or say to people you love...like you - her mother.

She would in my assessment have great difficulty telling her therapist accurately what is going on at home as she blames me .

I'd strongly suggest you contact her therapist and let him know that she has difficulty regulating herself and particularly when pre-menstrual.

She might well blame you for things but it's how you both communicate and I guess agree to disagree that needs some work. Patterns of communication can be adjusted. Boundaries can be set and adhered to. But her therapist does need to know about her behaviour towards you. It isn't appropriate.

The over-riding issue is that this is far too stressful for you both - and you are her mother... probably one of the most forgiving people she is likely to encounter in the world. The rest of the world will not be so forgiving and I think it is important that she is assisted in finding a better way of communicating and managing her pms and stress.

If I didn’t react this way she would be fine.

No...sorry. No..I don't believe that. That is a fairly typical response from an abused person. You are not responsible for her verbal abuse. She is 22 years old and there needs to be some respect between you both. I don't know what reaction you are specifically writing about but pms comes around regularly and if she is not managing that is not your fault. There isn't really any reaction you can have that you deserve to be abused for in my opinion.

this week she has had no programs running to go to.

So, was she bored, angry or just behaving as she would normally? It is difficult when routines are interrupted or programs are not scheduled consistently. But regardless - verbal abuse is not justified and her therapist should be trying to assist her with some regulation.

You cannot stay away from her just because she has pms.

oh so you get to say when the conversation ends, so of course I go back and stand there being submissive. I

It isn't easy to walk away but you might have to do so and have a safe place to go. It is about standards and boundaries, communicating when calm and not giving permission for a verbal attack to continue because there is a risk it could extend beyond the verbal at some stage.

Disengaging with your daughter when she is goading you to stay - is exactly what you should be doing. It is a boundary which says..."I am not allowing you to attack me verbally". Going back and standing submissively whilst she attacks you is just horrible.

Can you discuss this with a psychologist or support worker who understands the difficulties your daughter has in terms of her Autism?

it was a close call and a wake up call that I have no thought out plans on how to navigate my own behavior when this starts. I need a preemptive strike instead of submissive.

I think you both need to have someone to help you work out how to navigate each other. Both of you are reactive but are coming from different corners. It isn't all up to you. I am sure when she was younger that you did take on the bulk of the emotional regulation that needed to happen. Now she is an adult she can learn skills to communicate calmly.

The pre-emptive strike I would strongly suggest is making her more accountable for her own situation. House-work, structure of her day etc., As I mentioned I don't know what she is capable of but it certainly sounds like she is verbally proficient and I am sure she has not lasted in the programs she does attend by being verbally abusive to other participants and carers etc., So, if she is angry and she does blame she needs to find outlets for her anger that don't involve abusing you.

I know I am putting the emphasis for her behaviour back on her. I appreciate that your daughter is challenging because of her autism but I can see that you have reached a line in the sand with this latest episode and I don't blame you at all. I can hear echo's of a domestic abuse survivor in some of your reasoning but still I think you do know that a better solution needs to be found.

Keep us informed with your progress @Teamwork ((hugs))

 

[Teamwork]

A couple of responses. I’m not aware she does this with anyone else. Her sister is getting married and is no longer living here so towards her yes she will accuse her of not keeping her informed of the wedding. Verbally yes she is able to articulate, however I find it to be really inaccurate understanding of what is going on which worsen mid cycle or close to menstration. Absolute time bomb behavior. Yesterday started because I my oldest called and we talked. Youngest needed to pay for the bachelorette party so I said okay to oldest, got it will go give it to her. I go upstairs give youngest $150 tell her to use it to pay when she goes this week. Instead of being pleasant, saying thanks, tells me she doesn’t have time for this right now she is getting ready to go out. Her dress which is in a bag needing to be hemmed got in her way and she picked it up and shoved it into her shelving unit. I said to her give me the dress I need to get it hemmed. So she exploded on me that she was out of the loop and it went downhill from there. The explosive behavior is my tap on ptsd, I suddenly dont know what happened, how I caused it and get into fix it mode. However I did say, no you’re not out of the loop you were there when your sister asked me to do this for you. She yelled at me so I did say drop the attitude but then she charged at me in anger. So in that sense, when I try to do the mother thing of saying no to not acceptable reaction to being helped or not feeling informed she over reacts. This has been going on for awhile, the overreacting to parenting or boundaries. As to the suggestion of speaking to her Counselor it wont be allowed given her age and rights. My t will not address homelife with her because she used to see him before he started seeing me and the only way to see me is to agree she cant be spoken of since she was his prior client. so I came here today and in many ways I have learned from the conversation insights of what I’m doing. I thought she was coming off as abusive towards me, but wasn’t sure. It is very helpful the amount of support given today. I need to not feel so much alone here trying to navigate this time period. Yes I poured my life into her therapies, speech work, ot, private schooling, advocating you name it. I back in the place of what is autism, vs what is learned behavior? In autism they mimic. At her private school she was in a mix of behavioural teens placed there by the courts, to kids with autism like herself who couldn’t be helped in regular school setting.

 

[blackemerald1]

Hey there @Teamwork -

I’m not aware she does this with anyone else.

You would have heard I'm sure if she was behaving like this towards other people. Other people would never be as forgiving as you are. You would know.

Absolute time bomb behavior.

This is inappropriate and abusive. There is no need for this and it must be difficult to navigate.

The explosive behavior is my tap on ptsd, I suddenly dont know what happened, how I caused it and get into fix it mode.

Yes.. I can completely understand how damaging and destructive this behaviour must be. Of course your natural reaction is to want to settle down the chaos, stop the upset happening and move things back onto a calmer footing.

However like everyone she has to behave respectfully towards you. There are no exceptions to this rule Teamwork.

so I did say drop the attitude but then she charged at me in anger.

I'd be saying the exact same thing to my child - Actually thinking about it - I am sure I have said exactly that! aargh!

Did she physically charge at you? Are you ok?

I try to do the mother thing of saying no to not acceptable reaction to being helped or not feeling informed she over reacts. This has been going on for awhile, the overreacting to parenting or boundaries.

Time to rethink your strategy because the old one is no longer working well.

I think you need someone (social worker/therapist) to assist you. Someone who can sit with you both and work through the behaviour and help you establish some new boundaries.

speaking to her Counselor it wont be allowed given her age and rights.

Fair enough. So since you cannot utilise this resource...ask for some further assistance. Go to your doctor and tell him what is happening. Ask him for a referral to a social worker/therapist who can work with both of you. It's time to work on this behaviour and you need some support.

You are her primary carer after all and I think it is acceptable that you receive some assistance with managing your daughter and living with your own ptsd. It must be extremely challenging - Teamwork. :hug:

I thought she was coming off as abusive towards me, but wasn’t sure.

Regardless of what is causing it - yes it is abusive behaviour.

I need to not feel so much alone here trying to navigate this time period.

No..please - I know it is easy for me to say 'don't feel so alone' - please come back and share whatever you want to. It must be incredibly lonely and difficult to have ptsd and try and deal with this.

Is there anyone else in the family that understands your ptsd and also can see how challenging your daughters behaviour is to manage... someone that can step in and navigate past the autism to re-establish some ground rules?

Someone that she respects and responds well to and who also respects and supports you?

I'd like to be an optimist and suggest she will 'grow out of it' but I'm not sure that will happen without some guidance for you both. It is too hard on your own.

I suspected you have probably devoted your life to your family and your daughter has particular needs. It sounds like you have done everything you could have and are still doing a huge amount.

Teenagers are a force of nature but once they get into their 20's I'm sure you hoped there would be some maturity and ability for her to self-regulate. I'm not completely convinced it is all hormonal but probably her pms isn't helping.

Whatever the cause it must stop. She doesn't have to always agree with you or be totally compliant. She is an adult and she is entitled to her opinions and her independence. That doesn't translate to abusive outbursts towards you. There is a middle ground. How you get her to see where she is not behaving appropriately and protect yourself is another matter entirely. That middle ground can be elusive.

I back in the place of what is autism, vs what is learned behavior?

I don't know the answer to this question. :sorry: I don't even think there is a 'one size fits all' answer. But an expert on autism (doctor?) may be able to assist you there. Does she have a doctor with expertise in this area? Time to call in an expert here.

I'd really hate to assign her abusive outbursts to autism because that would essentially mean that her behaviour is unavoidable and she cannot control herself and I don't think that is the case. Do you?

You mentioned that you think there may be a pms connection to her behaviour.There are some rare but well established psychological behaviours that can occur because of hormonal fluctuations. (Aside from the usual) - I think it would be good if you could raise this issue with a GP and see if her pms is setting off this behaviour. There is treatment for this. Otherwise, if she is generally abusive most of the time, but gets worse because of pms then it's not pms causing the behaviour.

In autism they mimic. At her private school she was in a mix of behavioural teens placed there by the courts, to kids with autism like herself who couldn’t be helped in regular school setting.

So she may have learned these behaviours from school? And then brings the behaviour home to try it out on mum? Been there and done that lol... :rolleyes:

I think most teenagers mimic. I think all humans mimic. It's unfortunate that she might have learned some of her worst behaviour from other children. I think the good news is: (if ) she did learn this behaviour - albeit via her autism - then there is the very strong possibility that she can learn better behavioural patterns.

I think you are off to a good start by recognising what is going on and questioning whether it should be happening Teamwork. Hang in there and get some support and we can support you here too. So you are not all alone and it is not hopeless. :hug: