How to deal with dysregulation in a relationship?

[EveHarrington]

Hi Sophy,

My reaction to your post is that having dysregulation and being mature enough to be in relationship are not compatible. For short term, I can see a person losing it and calling all the names in a book but after many years, that just wears a person's soul down and the person may not remember what is real and what is dysregulation.

I think a person (and this is my humble opinion) who can control this side of them (if not completely heal with an intense therapy), at work can also learn how to express emotions without destroying relationship.
You said your ex did this 15 years and now he is a good friend. I am doubting if you are truly good friends because he no longer does that (and he did not care enough about you not to do it then) or if you are under his spell still and you have completely forgot what is healthy for the soul.

I am wondering why do you care about these two men whom you basically experienced re-traumatation of your past. Can you ever live without them? To me as tryingtocope18 said, most abused or traumatized are so focused on others that they disappear.

These two men though good friends now hurt you bad in intimate relationship. And yet you are still focused on them. It is good to learn about this but you know it already. you spent most of your life, with parents going nuts, you going nuts, others close to you going nuts. it is time to really just start fresh and find those that are adults and healthy enough not to do this anymore. This may be exactly what may give you a way out of this.

Spending time and energy on these old stories is not helping you grow or move on anynore. Even though it is probably helping you learn about YOU and how you deal with your own emotions.

I am really sorry sophy that I took this side of the issue but having Ptsd is not a death sentence and it is OK to desire more for life and both these men are minority and not worth your great mind and body to focus on their issues that you were smart and lucky enough to leave already.

Yes love is important but not occasioinal abuse and calling it dysregulation. it is painful to be in that kind of relationship to always feel being abandoned and reabused.

I really wish you find more people who have come to heal this side of them...it is one of the first area for healing because it is so on the top to destroy lives.

I wish you well and I am sorry if this post is too simple take on the issue. but being healthy in this area is simple just some people do not want to let it go.

Sometimes I wonder if we even have the same disorder as I pretty much disagree with everything that you say.

I don’t think it’s really all that helpful for you to comment on posts like this as it’s clear that you do not suffer from the brain hijacking that results in “fight”/emotional disregulation. If you did you’d know it’s not simply a matter of being “emotionally mature”. I can guarantee you that I’m not an immature person, nor are many of the people who suffer from this symptom cluster. Oh, it would be so nice if I just had to mature emotionally and my worst, most damaging ptsd symptom would go away!

I think it’s very hurtful for you to say that having emotional distegulation is incompatible with being in a healthy relationship. I STRONGLY urge you to read the many many many professional opinions that state PTSD is best healed in the context of loving, healthy, supportive relationships. I GUARANTEE you that I cannot work on my emotional disregulation in isolation for the simple fact that it does not happen in isolation.

Work relationships do NOT have the same kind of dangerous/un-safe emotional intimacy that is present in closer relationships. This is why many of us can regulate in all relationships except for intimate ones. I know this is a foreign concept and we are labeled as “abusive” since we can control ourselves in certain situations, but I assure you that different levels of closeness bring on different actions/reactions.

Just "ignoring" them along the lines of "Oh don't listen to him, he's out of his mind" feels like such a deeply disrespectful thing to think/ say about your partner. But *at the time/ during the dysregulation* it's basically true, huh?

Yes, it’s VERY much the same action but with different thoughts behind the action.

You’re not saying “oh f*ck you, I don’t care” *ignore ignore ignore*

You ARE saying “I’m setting a boundary which says when you are disregulated I will stop communicating with you until you can self-regulate again”.

It’s not disrespectful. It’s done out of love.

When I am of wise mind I agree to the boundary and I know why it’s there.

 

[grit]

I do not usually respond to personal comments but I will make an exception.

Having ptsd is a spectrum... I am not as ill as when I was 20 or 30... I have healed a lot of kinks alone and in supportive relationship.

I am sorry my words hurt you but please believe me when I said I am not talking about you personally. This condition is not personal we all heal different ways and paces. I healed a lot attachment area but not selfhood.

I am sorry my words hurt you or anyone else. This is my journey.

Also I will respectfully ask you not to address me directly and assume what I have. I suffered from and do in my own way from complex ptsd but this is not a badge of honor.

Let us learn from each other and respect our healing and blind spots.

Thank you.

 

[EveHarrington]

I do not usually respond to personal comments but I will make an exception.

Having ptsd is a spectrum... I am not as ill as when I was 20 or 30... I have healed a lot of kinks alone and in supportive relationship.

I am sorry my words hurt you but please believe me when I said I am not talking about you personally. This condition is not personal we all heal different ways and paces. I healed a lot attachment area but not selfhood.

I am sorry my words hurt you or anyone else. This is my journey.

Also I will respectfully ask you not to address me directly and assume what I have. I suffered from and do in my own way from complex ptsd but this is not a badge of honor.

Let us learn from each other and respect our healing and blind spots.

Thank you.

Wait what?

Why is it ok for you to get personal with people but it’s not ok for people to get personal with you?

That’s not how things work.

 

[PreciousChild]

I hope we can go back to @Sophy's concerns. But @grit, if you don't mind me weighing in, I have felt boundaries being pushed by some of your comments previously. You also provided some great food for thought and I've read your comments with interest. I hope my comment is helpful and not hurtful. But I think part of the healing process is to receive reality check-ins about how we're affecting others. It's something I'm personally challenging myself on as well, so I thought I'd share my thoughts instead of ignoring it. Thanks.

@Sophy, I was curious about your response of "losing respect" for those who dysregulate. To me that seems significant somehow and possibly a way of coping with family members who are overwhelming, maybe even a way of dissociating.

 

[Justmehere]

A couple of things:

There is
1.) healthy expression of emotion
2.) deregulation
3.) unhealthy ways people act out while dysregulated to try to cope (everything from cutting, yelling, etc.)
4.) being a jerk

I can be completely dysregulated and not a jerk and not yell at others, but use other ways to manage the dysregulation.

But, I would also like to have better skills for recognising dysregulation and for de-escalating it and also, for not taking it personally when a dysregulated person yells a maelstrom of shitty hurtful stuff at me.

For helping descalate someone who is upset, I highly recommend non-violent communication techniques (simple, easy to learn, lots of free self help info online) and setting boundaries.

I would kind of like to get to a place where I can see the dysregulation of PTSD similar to an asthma attack of someone who has asthma or the blood sugar crash of someone who has diabetes.

It’s not quite like that when it comes to being yelled at.

As someone with asthma, I can have an asthma attack and ask for help, use tools (in this case meds) to breathe again, etc.

I could also throw a brick at someone hoping they hand me my inhaler — which to me is like yelling at someone when dysregulated because of PTSD.

That’s part of what these behaviors are about when people act out - they are trying to get the other person to act in xyz way or take on xyz blame as a why to manage the symptom of dysregulation.

 

[Deleted member 47099]

Had another example of this stuff ^^ happening yesterday, with my ex L.

We were looking after a rescue animal, which for him is a stressful situation. But then EVERYTHING is a stressful situation for him. So this was just one of infinite similar situations.

The rescue animal startled and freaked and started clawing me/ injuring itself/ trying to escape. Harmless situation, but it would've been a bigger injury risk to have it escape and need to try and recapture it.

Anyway, as usual, I was doing the main work, because L gets too stressed and dysregulated really easily, which just doesn't work if you're dealing with a rescue animal.

So his job was to just assist if anything happens. So it did, and I'm like "Shut the gate!!"

So, although I managed to calm the animal and stop the situation escalating, seeing me get slightly injured, seeing the animal almost injure itself and nearly escape, plus me saying "shut the gate" loudly/ urgently had him dysregulating immediately.

He is a nice person and hates seeing me and animals get injured, so that in itself is enough to set off dysregulation. Because it had turned into a kind of "emergency" situation, where the gate needed to be closed NOW before things got even worse, I think he has a thing go on inside where he assumes I'm criticising him for not having shut the gate sooner or that if I say it in an urgent/ loud way to get his attention, then that is me being mean.

So with all this stuff mixed up in his head, he actually starts yelling random dysregulated shit at me while I'm a) still calming down the rescue animal and b) dealing with my slight injuries, which were stinging/ smarting for the first few minutes.

So this kind of dysregulation really pisses me off. It's a difficult situation, the only one who didn't get injured or was at risk was him, but he's the one doing all the yelling.

I'm not fussed at minor scratches and bites from rescue animals - that's just part of that work sometimes. But having someone yell at me while I'm allowing myself to get injured so I can continue to hold/ calm the rescue animal just sucks.

When I'm injured, I'd just like a couple of minutes to actually go "ow ow ow" before I can focus on others or on other stuff again.

So I actually got angry about it and told him to f*uck off, which of course caused more dysregulation. There was more yelling and ranting which went on for 20 - 30 mins.

Later, by way of trying to re-regulate himself, L was making shitty jokes about things (including me), was complaining about anything and everything, and was randomly insulting everything, including things like the ppl on TV.

So... as @Justmehere pointed out non-violent communication (NVC) would be a useful tool to stop L escalating in his dysregulation.

Saying "f*ck off" was not very NVC of me :laugh:

I think the problem starts way earlier tho - when we're looking after a rescue animal (or pretty much ANY other situation) L is always the weakest link in the chain.

Even injured rescue animals stay calmer and dysregulate less than he does :bag:

Really, he's pretty much useless for any situation at all.

He's on disability and all his energy goes into staying sober (he's a recovering alcoholic/ addict).

So basically any situation other than having a cup of coffee can/ will have him dysregulating.

Phone calls cause it too. Stuff which is totally innocuous but with PTSD is a trigger.

So I agree that the asthma attack/ blood sugar crash examples are not quite the same as PTSD dysregulation, but I do see similarities.

I think the problem starts when I am stressed and injured (in the above example) and he is stressed which turns into dysregulation and then he yells random stuff at me while I'm dealing with my (minor) injuries.

That stuff just plain pisses me off.

I don't feel like it's my "job" to help him deal with his dysregulation by employing tools like NVC, while Im dealing with a situation/ my injuries.

Yes, using NVC tools would have helped to prevent an escalation, but I think I'm so f*cking resentful about the constant dysregulation that I'm just like "f*cking deal with it" instead of being willing to go the extra mile and help him with NVC tools, while I'm being yelled random crap at.

I think I need to work out my inner stance on this stuff and resolve my inner resentment about this stuff, before engaging/ using NVC tools is even an option.

 

[Justmehere]

Wow, I’m sorry he responded so badly! I’m glad the injuries are not serious.

I’m actually quite concerned you continue to allow all this screaming at you into your life. I mean, yeah. I’d be pissed too! You are focused on trying to get him to change to have the screaming stop, and that’s understandable - and it’s likely the wrong focus right now. I think you already know this.

I think it actually might be time to begin to focus on accepting where he is at right now. (This is very different than condoning his behavior.)

If a cup of coffee is his zone of a successful outing, and a phone call is too much.... then working with stressed out animals and being around humans that need to have all their focus on them or else injury or a dangerous escape situation can happen is just setting up everyone for failure.

Part of recovery is being able to accept where one is at, and take steps forward in a paced way, where there can be more success than failures.

You are completely right. It’s not your job to help him regulate. It’s also not your job to change him.

Yeah, NVC can help give you more tools to talk to him that are better than telling him to F off. Frankly, it also is really understanble why you told him that. It’s not ok to scream on and on at you like this. NVC actually weaves into it is a lot of acceptance, but I agree, put it aside for this moment.

The next steps might actually be:

1.) An accurate assessment about what he’s ready, able, and willing to do.
2.) Grieving the loss of what you reasonably want him to do.
3.) Begining to assert your boundaries, and not allowing all this verbal abuse in your life. You are not responsible for the verbal abuse but you are responsible for keeping boundaries, and when a friend starts screaming on a regular basis, without consequence, that’s a good sign boundaries are lacking.

Stop robbing him of the dignity of being responsible for his behavior. You are not actually doing him any favors by allowing him to scream on and on. It’s ok for him to face a consequence for his actions.

Right now, why would he change? You are taking on all the responsibility for anything changing and he’s not facing any consequences for his actions. He gets to vent, gets the rush of raging at someone, and it’s “working” for him.

Nothing changes if nothing changes.

It’s ok to say stop or he will need to leave (in the case of a situation where you can’t leave yourself.)

He’s not going to be someone you can depend on right now. There is a saying in al-anon that many supporters of alcoholics tend to try to go to the hardware store looking for bread. He’s a hardware store. You keep looking for him to provide you bread. You keep seeking from him what he isn’t going to provide. I know this stinks to read. I’ve been there, stuck in the pattern, for years. It will begin to change when you accept that you won’t be able to have him meet certain needs in your life.

Otherwise, you’ll just keep going around in circles trying to get him to change and then resenting him when change doesn’t happen.

Show him enough compassion to start setting boundaries with all this raging at you.

 

[EveHarrington]

I think you should only be willing to work with people who are willing to work with you.

Otherwise, what’s the point?

You just end up being the doormat while they take no responsibility for their actions.

 

[PreciousChild]

Hey @Sophy. I think @Justmehere has a lot of great points and advice. You were the one who helped me to see that my relationship struggles exhibited codependency, and I think of that as I read your description of the above incident with your ex at the animal rescue and @Justmehere's thoughts. Your ex reminds me of my ex husband who would get set off by random things (and almost anything could do it), and he would become highly negative and unpredictable. That kind of behavior is hard to be around and anxiety-producing. One sign that a relationship might be defined by codependency is if one person feels resentful or uncomfortable with what's being asked of them by the other. It seems to me that you don't feel entirely comfortable with your ex's behaviors, and if so, why put up with it?

 

[shimmerz]

I have to be honest and say that I do not think I have ever seen a word (dysregulation) expressed more often in any posting on this site. Which leads me to the exact question that Friday asked. What exactly is dysregulation to you....

Also, the fact that you automatically fall into feelings of disrespect for those that you feel are dysregulated is actually, in my mind, a dysregulation of your own.

There is not much wiggle room between disrespect and contempt. From what you describe in this posting it sounds like you are more in contempt feelings than disrespect. I may be mistaken, but that is the attitude I am getting from these posts of yours.

Like this statement for instance

that I'm just like "f*cking deal with it"

It’s not your job to help him regulate. It’s also not your job to change him.

Nor is it to judge and I see a ton of judgement here. If it really is that bad (his behaviour) then it is up to you to cut your losses on this relationship. That is how you re-regulate to pull yourself out of whatever this dysregulation of others as you call it stops dragging you into their sewer.

In the meanwhile, it sounds to me like you are part of a replaying of a dynamic here that you need to address your own feelings in.

I deal with an awful lot of people who have PTSD. They get dysregulated. I deal with an awful lot of people who do not have PTSD. They get dysregulated too. I have to say though, that disrespect is not a place I automatically jump to when people are struggling with overwhelming emotions.

 

[Innordinate]

I automatically jump to when people are struggling with overwhelming emotions.

maybe it's a response to how people struggle with the overwhelming emotions. and how often they're overwhelmed and if they're working on them or not?

 

[shimmerz]

how often they're overwhelmed and if they're working on them or not?

True, but from what I am seeing in this it is happening with regularity and seems to be a trend. That to me (which does not necessarily say it is true - this is just a thought) means that the OP might want to look at why that might be.

I am not a big believer these days in coincidences. If this keeps repeating in her relationship dynamics, then perhaps there is something going on that she could focus on in her own beliefs and filters that may be more helpful than throwing all of the responsibility on others.

There is no power in that type of response.