Pivot Points - Central Themes In Managing Your PTSD

[frogthroat]

I very much have to feel like I have control over situations. I avoid and isolate. I don't like to ask for help. I have trouble forming emotional connections unless it's like a crush I obsess over from far away which I know won't ever amount to anything. I don't talk much in real life. I just don't like to give myself any leeway to be humiliated. I hit the bottle when I'm stressed. I would still be smoking weed if I didn't worry about losing my job because of it. I don't trust other people to a point where I can barely engage them. I feel exceptionally betrayed and that seems to branch out into every other area of my life especially my non-existent social life.

 

[Tinyflame]

Like a Pavlovian response.

Yes from what I learned @IceQueencop , (and I may have missed much), the amygdala acts as a 'data dump', and classifies incoming info of all forms as in essence neutral or threat, before that info is filtered to the prefrontal cortex. But even what is classified as 'unknown' becomes 'threat', and an alarm goes off. Which would also explain (with less shame) why post-meltdown is filled with mistrust and fear, because it started out with a reaction, not a thought.

Perhaps since past events or triggers have one prevailing meaning, but if the meaning can be tied in to something positive cognitively, the amygdala could downgrade the threat, and it could become something cognitively positive, rather than just a limbic response with less impact to change it with rational thought. Or rather, try to change it when it's a fight to overcome rationally.

I'm not sure exactly how to do that with a narrative for memories, but I know it's supposed to involve adding new info/ thoughts/ perspective to the narrative.

I also know apparently even responding to situations with stone-walling is because (we) are actually flooded, which with ptsd is probably associated with triggers. It's not because we are calm, but terrified.

So a pivot point for me would be recognizing and figuring out how to control flooding, however that may be accomplished.

 

[IceQueencop]

@Junebug - I like the way you think. One of the things I have tried to do through my PTSD, is to understand what’s happening in my brain and gaining the perspectives of others is useful, even if I’m not ready to understand it in the context of my personal life/experience.
In that vein, one of the theories I have looked at involves spectrums. Where most people are in the middle of emotional spectrums, people with PTSD are on the very negative end of the spectrum. Overly positive experiences are overwhelming to our senses, we can only have a fairly narrow range of emotional adjustment, and it rarely gets us into the mode of pleasure seeking,maybe not even into the neutral zone. So, it takes small steps to get back there without overwhelming the system.

 

[Freida]

“Wired together, fires together.”

Love this!

 

[Tinyflame]

Thank you @IceQueencop , same here.

Where most people are in the middle of emotional spectrums, people with PTSD are on the very negative end of the spectrum.

I did not know that, but it makes sense. ^^

Overly positive experiences are overwhelming to our senses, we can only have a fairly narrow range of emotional adjustment, and it rarely gets us into the mode of pleasure seeking,maybe not even into the neutral zone. So, it takes small steps to get back there without overwhelming the system.

^^ I suppose in my case, because the most traumatic things were immediately or very close to immediately, in one case, preceded by happiness and feeling positive and relaxed, I find that feeling is very triggering and unsettling. So I'm not sure if even that is a trigger proper. It certainly feels like it. (Definitely relate to the 'small steps' though).

That, and maybe I think my mind's attempt (via the Vagus nerve?) to prevent any more great shocks or losses; if I don't feel much, or hope, or whatever, I won't be impacted as horribly 'if' (or more-likely-feeling 'when') the next horrible thing happens. But I do believe that's a direct result of trauma and wiring, was not my nature.

I also don't know if it's hypervigilance that makes me overloaded in a sensory way, or is magnified because of it? I do recall they said the prefrontal cortex takes 4-6 seconds to size up data, whereas the amygdala takes 1/5th of a second to decide whether it's good/ neutral or bad/ dangerous- sound the alarm.

I think as per Friday's question, putting people or animal's needs first, is a pivot point. In the way of I will do something for other's sake or feelings despite the ptsd, if possible, better than I could do for myself. Well more so others I care about that I want to, but also others sort of in general (or I don't think I could do my job, though I feel like it's killing me). It doesn't make the effects to deal with less but the motivation is greater.

(Dear @Friday- I hope this is not too off topic. :( ).

Eta, they did say though dealing on the sensory level is how to communicate with the amygdala and create a safe space/ place, to even begin to be rational. That is not directly addressed (or at all) with mindfulness.

 

[Friday]

(via the Vagus nerve?)

I wouldn’t get hung up on which structures of the CNS are responsible for what. Even neuroscientists don’t know, and are constantly learning that what they thought controlled this, or was responsible for that, doesn’t.

The polyvagal theory, for example, was disproven years ago. It was instrumental in getting people to think about the physiological side of psych, so it’s still an important piece of history, even if it’s completely wrong & the vagus nerve -at most- is a very minor player, and quite possibly not involved whatsoever. (Or abot as involved as the exhaust pipe is in propelling a car forward. Yes, it’s blowing clouds out when the car is moving, but no it’s not what’s moving the car).

My favorite neuroscience “oops” happens to be memory. We used to think all memory was stored in the hippocampus. Come to find? Nope. Memories are stored diffusely thoughtoht every region of the brain. Some, in ways that make sense (visual memories in the visual cortex) orthers in ways that make us rethink how we have those areas classified to begin with, and others in :confused: The f*ck is this doing here??? :confused:

(Dear @Friday- I hope this is not too off topic. :( ).

LMAO, not at all. :tup: Conversations naturally venture off in different directions & just as many cool things can be learned from tangents as direct courses. It will loop back around. If it gets too far off course, I’ll say something. Until then, no worries.

 

[Tinyflame]

Thank you so much @Friday . You are so sweet!

I know nothing of the poly-vagal theory, but I entirely trust you do. The only thing I've tried is following the recommendation from a fellow with autism to do 'exercises' such as splashing cold water on your face, to get accustomed to shock. Tbh they didn't seem to be working so it's the only exercise I can remember!

I think, too, over stimulation is going to be very likely if a person is wound up like a spring! And the more sensitive we are to noticing, the more there is to process.

But, I know for me, I can't stand loud sounds feeling unsafe, but I love concerts, amusement parks and the most wicked rides ( :) , except for my back now :( ), and sporting events. So it can't all be created equally, I think. One moment loud music is great; another time it's way too stimulating and grating. Which I think is 'normal'- even like a person turning down the radio in the car to focus on directions when lost; it's just the degree to which it's unsettling is probably not the average. Just like uncomfortable clothes or cold temperatures.

I also wonder about this- A-Fib; I didn't realize I have it (or that's what I have) and it comes and goes- probably too much caffeine and nicotine + no sleep, but the difficulty getting my breath I figure might contribute to panic/off/ unsettling feeling.

I do think though, 'themes in managing' as you expressed it sound to me like really concrete, cognitive thoughts/ inclinations/ decisions; our propensities, and knowing what keeps us going, and what we choose, so they are in our control in a way (or big way, in terms of why we choose them, and choosing to do them, and knowing ourselves).

(I should have said, mindfulness does address grounding, most obviously, but it might take more (it seems to me) for some us to to reduce the physiological response to even begin to apply- or remember to apply- what we know (of how to ground) ).

My favorite neuroscience “oops” happens to be memory. We used to think all memory was stored in the hippocampus. Come to find? Nope. Memories are stored diffusely thoughthut every region of the brain. Some, in ways that make sense (visual memories in the visual cortex) others in ways that make us rethink how we have those areas classified to begin with, and others in

Yes @Friday and that David Suzuki was saying they are finding people who are more depressed seem to remember the negative and positive parts of an experience more in memory, but the memory is actually more 'technically' accurate because it's more inclusive.

I find it kind of a downer to think we as people are just subject to reactions, I like more the interplay of saying, 'now I get this, and see it interferes, so how can I kick it out of the way'? There was a ptsd/ trauma lecturer in Ireland who said the trouble is the not-fleshed-out trauma narrative our memory has held on to. (Which I think also likely would/ could have cognitive distortions, as per our role in it; I liken it to the VA's one example of determining what proportion of responsibility was ours? Another's?, etc.)

I guess, too, (and lastly), not sure if this is other's experience: what I notice as I go on with trying to manage it, is the feeling of 'un'-safety (and safety), or whatever particular combo of factors that creates 'that' feeling of my brain going out the window (brain?. what brain?- who cares) is so visceral, and fast, it seems what else could it be but sensory and reactive? Idk, that does seem correct is the wired-together-fired-together principle, and that's exactly how it feels: the Domino Effect. Maybe it's something one just has to live with and practice at getting better at turning down? We all do, or we'd all be reactive outwardly, a lot. But it's the interior reactivity (and mindset that follows) I'd like to change. Much as @IceQueencop said about registering at the more negative end of the emotional spectrum. I'd like to get a 'promotion'! :confused::) But that is why I think, plasticity of the brain they say, and re-wiring 'new', positive connotations. Because when it has worked for me, I only tried because a) I felt safe b) therefore there was a good connotation and c) I was so sick and tired of feeling depressed and reminded (and even on rare occasion would get a lousy FB) seeing what should otherwise been just a neutral or even beautiful, object.

 

[Friday]

is the feeling of 'un'-safety (and safety)

I was really surprised not to see this in more people’s lists.

It’s not one of my “things” (I don’t believe in safe, it’s a feeling not a reality) so it really leaps out at me how much it’s used in the forum as people needing it in their lives, relationships, etc. in order to manage their lives & PTSD.

In point of fact... it was that ongoing disconnect, how much of a theme it is, that largely inspired this thread.

Because people need different things. I don’t need safe. What do I need? Safe isn’t one of my themes, what are my themes? What am I constantly talking about, and circling around to, and attempting to bring into / keep in my life?

 

[Abstract]

I guess I think of the un- safety as just a part of the hyperarousal/ flight/fight mechanism and that peoples means of verbalising that is what differs the most rather than those differences being that fundamental. If that makes sense. Perception varies and language varies and is partly because of circumstance, trauma history, personality etc but for me personally I don't see that as the fundamental stuff. I suppose I see it as self and situation knowledge and self management - whatever that looks like for that specific person. And then I see different levels of that self management. Which is probably what you mean anyway. That may not make that much sense in a relevant way but at least I know what sense it makes to me. ?

 

[Tinyflame]

Yes @Friday , and you know, maybe it's at a physiological level, or maybe it's personality/ history/ attributes, etc? Because when you say it, I can think, "Friday has courage; regardless of circumstance she does not consider perceived threat, or feels capable, or even desirous, of taking on that threat or what comes". So it could be perception and skills and training- competency. And/ or personality- bravery and loyalty (to protect others also- that I'm better at, but not always). And/or history- this is worth any risk because of the possible positive result (or not; which also ties back to courage).

I think you are also correct that the personal themes that are unique for each person are the ones they have to figure out and solve or manage. Even if physiological differences exist at a core level, we seem likely to loop around to our own themes. That seems to me a cognitive/ mind/ heart/ soul/ meaning and way of living/ issue. (JMHO though). I think a lot might relate not to just distortions, but core values.

And maybe it's our core values- what makes us tick- that are interwoven with our themes, that need to be the springboard to get better? Because, Idk, Dr Suess or someone said ~no one does you, better than you. :)

 

[IceQueencop]

@Friday, can you think of your subconscious as a part of you that only wants to 1)seek pleasure and 2) avoid pain? If you can see ‘safe’ as avoiding pain, does that help you to connect?

I can only guess that you probably avoid pain in other ways. If your trauma was not from someone close to you, in a relationship with you, a safe relationship may not mean as much to you.

Protecting those around me is one way that I avoid pain, but some of my trauma comes from a lack of ability to protect others. I can see that in a lot of our posts, we want to do for others or help others. Survivor’s guilt; it should have been me.

 

[Chris-duck]

It’s not one of my “things” (I don’t believe in safe, it’s a feeling not a reality) so it really leaps out at me how much it’s used in the forum as people needing it in their lives, relationships, etc. in order to manage their lives & PTSD

I don't necessarily disagree with this, I just think of it differently, like I think feeling (being?) safe is a basic need. But it's just how deep you think about it, like I could say I need to feel safe, but safety is variable, so it's really control vs lack of control, for me anyway. Like I can sit in my flat alone (which in most cases is "safe") but -feel- unsafe because "What if someone breaks in? I won't be able to get out!" or whatever, but I can walk along the canal when it's dark which is "unsafe" and -feel- safer, cos I -know- it's not safe. So for me safety is more knowing where the danger is, and therefore feeling more able to counteract the danger. Which is really control vs out of control.

I dunno.