General What are they thinking?

[Ronin]

@Sweetpea76 , in my world? Absolutely. ;) I'm unforgiving if someone messes with mine (family / partner (s), friends taken as family), if it's just me, I give a million chances and am far more likely to give them a chance to clear it up as a misunderstanding.

But I also need to not be pushed about timing of dealing with them. As in if I juust flew out of state to not think of their nonsense, don't even talk to me. I will hear it out. After my cope is back and I have three plans in my sleeve minimum.

Aka why my dating life been so weird and limbo spaces at times & I'm confused if people say six weeks isolating is too long. >.>

 

[Freida]

I'm trying to live my life in the meantime, don't know if he'll be back or not, but it feels right to be kind, to try, even if all it does is save his life and not "us."

I like this -- it gives you a way to move forward, while still staying true to who you are.

@Freida, @Tinyflame, and @Ronin, I have to ask for the supporters though... would somebody actually be able to fight hard enough to change your mind about leaving? After you’ve decided - you cannot deal with said person and the stress/drama/feelings/whatevz that comes with them? Is there redemption?

I honestly don't know. I don't think I've had that opportunity, or maybe I have and haven't recognized it? That's kind of what T wants me to think about.

I'm a lot like @Ronin as far as those I claim as "mine." Hurt them and I am raving bitch who will never look back. But for those who hurt me, or there are just too many emotions, and that's why I bail? That's what I'm having to take a hard look at.
Homeowork on things I'm wondering.....
I think that I give people a lot of chances to fix things before I ghost - but I'm not sure they would agree.
I don't get close enough in the first place because I assume it's going to crash and burn so it's a non event when I ghost
People apologize to make themselves feel better - so it doesn't really mean anything to me. Which leads to me not feeling bad when I'm gone since they won't miss me anyway (damn - that's melodramatic!)

But at the same time I've bailed on hubby a couple times and yet we are still together - so maybe if it's important enough I'll come back? But if he doesn't really make a big deal about me leaving does it bother me?

I think it might boil down to --- If I don't understand the emotions that are driving me away then all I know is that I have to escape those emotions - which means running. But then how do I know if I want someone to show they care if they annoyed me so much that I bailed?

Holy crap this is a padora's box from hell. :(

 

[Ronin]

^ Yep and that's what I think going dark's good for.

Cool off time. To think it through. Eventually time to not think at all, return to clean slate, take it fresh from there.

So then if people go like, but is something wroong, can we talk talk talk I'm likely to go wtf over it. Yeah. Something's wrong. I'm trying to dewrong it or see if it moves on its own. Will talk when it stops being hellish angles of complicated and I can come back. That we're not on the same page I shoulda said more only adds to the sense we're not working it pair style.

If I can talk instead of run for cover on blind instinct?
Shit ain't wrong. ;)

 

[Freida]

^ Yep and that's what I think going dark's good for.

Cool off time. To think it through. Eventually time to not think at all, return to clean slate, take it fresh from there.

So then if people go like, but is something wroong, can we talk talk talk I'm likely to go wtf over it. Yeah. Something's wrong. I'm trying to dewrong it or see if it moves on its own. Will talk when it stops being hellish angles of complicated and I can come back. That we're not on the same page I shoulda said more only adds to the sense we're not working it pair style.

If I can talk instead of run for cover on blind instinct?
Shit ain't wrong. ;)

exactly!!!!

 

[Sweetpea76]

So basically,

“I can’t deal with you, go away... but if you really do go away it will validate what I think about you.”

BUT

“If you don’t go away when I bail, ignore you, and/or tell you to f*ck off, and you continue to try and contact me, you’re not respecting my needs or boundaries.”

Honestly, this is the most common reason we get new supporters here... utter confusion about ghosting. The VAST majority of the time, their sufferers do not come back. How can they tell when somebody is really walking away? Or when they should hang on?

This is the way my long-term supporter mind would process this action from my Vet... I respect his need for space, so I would leave him alone. I can recognize when he is symptomatic and would take that into account. If he lets me know he’s OK every so often, and that he just needs space that’s no big deal to me. Cool... be safe. Love ya, I’m here when you need me. HOWEVER, if he would bail (ie disappear), and it was a long time with no contact (like say, a month), and he ignored all my attempts at contact, I would be worried sick, heartbroken and pissed the f*ck off. That would demonstrate to me that he has zero respect for me at all, especially after everything I do to support him and respect his needs. He would not be participating in any kind of relationship at all. If he is too sick to pick up the phone and text me 2 words, he’s too sick to be in a relationship. At this point in time I would have to walk away, for my own mental health.

I’m pretty patient and I’m pretty understanding, but I’m not a mind reader. I would not assume the poor lamb needs me to hang on, I would assume he wanted me to f*ck off and didn’t care how I did it.

 

[Ronin]

Yeah and that is I think pretty individual / how much you can and are willing to take, not like it's wrong because it ain't. :tup:

I think there's a difference between not being there... and not being there *and* ignoring.

And boils down to overall respect, in whole the relation.
Like super different I'm sorry but not coping, cya in a month... and be hugged and kind to when back... vs
Very cold I'm fine. and ghosted and if back at all, treated like dirt.

 

[Tinyflame]

would somebody actually be able to fight hard enough to change your mind about leaving? After you’ve decided you cannot deal with said person and the stress/drama/feelings/whatevz that comes with them?

I would say, it really depends on what precipitated the leaving to begin with. I would say absolutely yes, if there wasn't great betrayal or harm. Sometimes though it takes time and grace/ luck or providence/ work to even realize it's just my (the sufferer's fault/ triggering, whatever). And even then if I feel too badly about my presence well, then I'm doing the other a favour not to be there. I think however if the stress drama feelings aren't poured on by the other, it's not their fault, either, and isn't viewed (by me) as coming from them.

Idk because even trying to find the words leaves me in confusion, others have explained it better. Ironically when someone is harmful it's not really required, maybe because the feelings or fear are not there (of being treated well, or harming an innocent other?) Same thing with not much of a relationship, no perception to me of 'feelings' or impact.

I suppose it's a fine line between trying to believe (or hear) you are value/ valuable, and accepting that.

I think it requires basic communication, working on yourself, much forgiveness and sensitivity on the part of a supporter, truthful communication on the hard stuff, including fears and feelings, and work on both peoples part to keep together.

 

[Freida]

The VAST majority of the time, their sufferers do not come back. How can they tell when somebody is really walking away? Or when they should hang on?

I've been thinking about this all day... how do I know when I'm done...???
I think I blah blah'ed on to @WinterCricket about this earlier -- Sometimes it's because people need me more than I can offer. The intense part at the beginning is fabulous but then the person NEEDS me to be there for them and they are all emotional and such and its' just way to much pressure. Or they want to fix me, to be my hero, blah blah -- which is also too much pressure. So I bail.

Maybe it's the difference between the long term and short term relationships? Short term one I'll ghost on because it's just to much pressure, to many expectations. People I've not known all that long, that I've been having fun with, suddenly want more than I can give. So, I bail and don't look back

Long term relationships? I think I ghost either because they have hurt me - and I don't come back, or because I'm panicking about something and I truly don't know if I can come back because I'm not running from them. I'm running from me. That's a big part of it -- when I'm in that place I just have to escape. I don't care to where. Even now, after all these years, I still know that I have to run. I'm just better at planning it out. But it is STILL going to happen.

I think the concept of respect is the biggie. Hubby and I have had lots of years to practice and it's hard for me to remember back in the early days exactly how it went. But on the occasions when "I have to take off" I know I have to check in so he doesn't worry. I'm guessing that came from a lot of conversations when I wasn't symtomatic - which might be the part new supporters struggle with. The conversations that happen while I'm triggered will never go well. But ground rules can be set when things are calm and I can actually understand what he's saying. Sadly, that leaves the supporter in a place where they don't get to talk about how hurt they are until sometimes much later.

But if you can get it to be about respect rather than .... dunno - that I'm intentionally trying to hurt you because my mind is breaking or because you are just more than I can handle? It might go easier?

Damn -- it's making my brain hurt-- I don't think I've ever really thought this much about it!

He would not be participating in any kind of relationship at all. If he is too sick to pick up the phone and text me 2 words, he’s too sick to be in a relationship. At this point in time I would have to walk away, for my own mental health.

Ya -- there is this. All the love in the world can't save someone who is too sick to be in a relationship

 

[Sweetpea76]

I think the concept of respect is the biggie.

when "I have to take off" I know I have to check in so he doesn't worry.

But if you can get it to be about respect rather than .... dunno - that I'm intentionally trying to hurt you because my mind is breaking or because you are just more than I can handle? It might go easier?

I think you hit the nail on the head. From “outside”, I think respect is the key to making it work for both parties, and likewise I think lack of respect on either side is what takes things from “isolation” to “ghosting”.

Isolation is somebody taking some needed space for a reset, coping mechanism, mental health break, etc. When both parties value the relationship, both put effort into managing the isolation period. Both parties know what’s going on, and both respect boundaries. Both parties know it is not a break up. There is some level of communication and expectation.

Ghosting is taking off... piss on the other person, what they think, how they feel, and everything else. Sufferer doesn’t or can’t respect their partner or relationship (for whatever reason, symptomatic, stressed, irritated, or just plain sick of them). On the other hand, bamboozled supporters won’t or can’t understand PTSD, then they get clingy and desperate, steamrolling through boundaries and creating more stress and drama, sometimes after somebody takes off, or sometimes CAUSING somebody to take off.

Hard telling, you know? Like I said before, this is perspective from the other side, after lots of observation and lots of talking supporters back from the edge. I don’t think it makes total sense to anybody. It just seems like people in long term PTSD relationships find their own specific grooves with it all, if (and it’s a big *if*) they make it through the initial isolation. Eventually, the suffering partner actually trusts their supporter, and the supporting partner gets over themselves and relaxes. I can tolerate a whole lotta “wtf” out of mine, as long as he loves and respects me. That’s what makes me feel secure in the relationship. Wtf is hard to take when you’re not feeling the love though, and your partner has to be well enough to love.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

@Sweetpea76, you make A TON of sense!

I take off and don't communicate why because I can't communicate why. Or how long for that matter. It's not that I disrespect the relationship or the person. I just don't have the words to communicate. Quite literally only able to state a few words in a sentence many times. Many times not able to say any.

That said, I have never had a partner willing to communicate in the good times about that inability to communicate (and inability to do anything) in the bad times. Most are like "nope, this is "crazy'! I'm out!"

But both do need to work together. Communicate in the good times. Set personal boundries. Ensure both are understanding of each other's boundries and what they look like (I literally need many boundries spelled out for me). And both be understanding of each other.

This all is probably impossible to achieve but, a bit more of all of that.

I had to get out of the dating game as it was all SUPER unhealthy sex but I do long for a partner. I do ghost and can't not ghost and can't communicate why, how long, or any of that. I can text a few words every few days or once a week to advise I'm still alive but that's about it.

That said, if communication is done in the good time to map this stuff out, the supporter will know this, expect this, understand this, and all will be well.

Sorry if I blurted in. Just wanted to give 2 cents (though I didn't up read. Hard time, forgive me). Though probably less since I haven't dated (more then just sex and a booty call) for over 15 yrs soooo. Yeah. Would be my ideal relationship if I could "relationship" again, though. Communicate during good times is super key for me. So that understanding happens in the bad times. If that makes any sense.

 

[Sweetpea76]

I take off and don't communicate why because I can't communicate why. Or how long for that matter. It's not that I disrespect the relationship or the person. I just don't have the words to communicate. Quite literally only able to state a few words in a sentence many times. Many times not able to say any.

You know just saying this^^^ can be a reasonable explanation, especially ahead of time, when you’re still feeling well. Somebody with the right temperament to be a supporter will understand, or at least work on understanding. If they don’t, then at least you’ll know early in the game.

 

[Tinyflame]

I'm not sure if I've figured out something that helps explain it. Frieda said:

But if you can get it to be about respect rather than .... dunno - that I'm intentionally trying to hurt you because my mind is breaking or because you are just more than I can handle? It might go easier?

and I agree, respect helps. But (and) respect requires memory: who they are, the past relationship, anything good about it.

Ghosting is taking off... piss on the other person, what they think, how they feel, and everything else. Sufferer doesn’t or can’t respect their partner or relationship (for whatever reason, symptomatic, stressed, irritated, or just plain sick of them). On the other hand, bamboozled supporters won’t or can’t understand PTSD, then they get clingy and desperate, steamrolling through boundaries and creating more stress and drama, sometimes after somebody takes off, or sometimes CAUSING somebody to take off.

Agree with that **.

I don’t think it makes total sense to anybody. It just seems like people in long term PTSD relationships find their own specific grooves with it all, if (and it’s a big *if*) they make it through the initial isolation. Eventually, the suffering partner actually trusts their supporter, and the supporting partner gets over themselves and relaxes. I can tolerate a whole lotta “wtf” out of mine, as long as he loves and respects me. That’s what makes me feel secure in the relationship. Wtf is hard to take when you’re not feeling the love though, and your partner has to be well enough to love.

^^ That is why I think respect is just part of it (& maturity): not wanting to put someone in a position of doubt or hurt.

But to remember anything personal, or specific, requires trust and respect (IMHO). trusting too the 'now' is real; possible; that better things are possible.

I take off and don't communicate why because I can't communicate why. Or how long for that matter. It's not that I disrespect the relationship or the person. I just don't have the words to communicate. Quite literally only able to state a few words in a sentence many times. Many times not able to say any.

^^ Yes. If someone asked me if what I was thinking and feeling vs the relationship was a dream, I'd say the relationship was a dream, and what I was thinking/ feeling (past) is the reality.

I'm starting to think that's why holidays and time get screwed up: time effectively stops (yet doesn't) when triggered, or anniversaries, and picks up where it left off afterward, sometimes months behind. So (ghosting) time has little relevance: weeks may feel like a few days, but a few days of memories feel like months. If that makes sense?