Ketamine vs TMS (transcranial magnetic stimulation)

[Starfish]

I have had 7 days of TMS and just found out there is a Ketamine clinic in my town. I am thinking of quitting the TMS and going for the Ketamine.It is done via an IV. Can anyone here share their experience with either? Apparantly they both don't last forever so you need ongoing treatments. TMS takes so long (6 weeks, 5days a week) and I've heard ketamine works so much faster. Ketamine is very expensive and not covered by my insurance. I am thinking I would like to bite the bullet and go for the gusto to see if I can get some movement going, and then at another time, if i slip back down into the dark hole (which it seems that is the most common scenario) I can try TMS at another time for the full treatment. I have been stuck for a loooooong time. Appreciate any experience you care to share!

 

[Sideways]

They aren't mutually exclusive - I know people who have done both together.

 

[Starfish]

apparently there is a slightly higher risk of seizures if they are done together so my TmS doc would prefer I do one or the other. I approached him with doing both together.

 

[EveHarrington]

I don’t know if I’d jump ship from one treatment to another.

There is no one treatment that works for us all. You may have high hopes for ketamine but it may not help as you’re hoping.

I’d just take things one step at a time.

 

[Starfish]

Now that sounds like common sense talking, eveharrington....... my impatience is running rampant right now that I just found out there is a Ketamine clinic nearby but I have been so disappointed by high anticipation of the "next" fix so many times. I hate to wait another month but it could be that the TMS will be something that really helps me too..... and the TMS is free for me. I could probably wait another month......I'll let it simmer for a few days. The Ketamine appointment is 10 days away so I will be getting another 7 TMS treatments and maybe I will see some significant results and cancel Ketamine and continue the full treatment of TMS. TMS doc said that would be fine with him. Gosh, it is so hard to make all these decisions when the mind is comprimised!

 

[BeTheLight]

Never heard of this.
My mom told me my grandma used to show horses and she did have a mental illness. My mom said her mom abused ketamine though as she used to buy it from veterinarians illegally and consume the ketamine.
I wonder what she took it for.

 

[Starfish]

BeTheLight Everything I am learning about Ketamine, I imagine it helped your grandmother and gave her some relief. Maybe the people around her considered it abuse but that would have been before it was studied and now regularly used for people with mental illness..... that's my take on it without being there and knowing intimately the parties involved.

 

[BeTheLight]

BeTheLight Everything I am learning about Ketamine, I imagine it helped your grandmother and gave her some relief. Maybe the people around her considered it abuse but that would have been before it was studied and now regularly used for people with mental illness..... that's my take on it without being there and knowing intimately the parties involved.

Wow thats incredible.
Her daughter my mom says she remembers her mom using it and that its so strong it can knock out a horse. But obviously my grandma knew her doses. I remember my mom telling me about this but mt mom hates her mom and i never hated my grandma. She had a hard life. I really feel for her reading this post. She was trying to help herself in an era back in the 40's where im sure there wasnt much mental health help available.

 

[joeylittle]

Appreciate any experience you care to share!

I'm replying to this rather late...I'm curious to hear what you ended up doing.

I've done TMS a number of times. If this is the first time you've done a course of it, I'd strongly recommend you finish it out. I'm guessing you're in the US based on your description of the protocol...For some people, it really is a near-permanent fix. For others, a significant and meaningful long-lasting improvement. For some (people like me), there's an improvement that eventually fades, so I go in and do it again.

Bear in mind that it's effectiveness and longevity are impacted by how you use your brain during the 6-week treatment window. You should be pretty actively participating in some form of cognitive therapy, specifically making sure that you're working on changing some of your more harmful core beliefs.

Also - you can assume that the TMS is still moving towards maximum effect for another six months, following treatment. That's how long they've observed regular change continuing in the mood areas of the brain.

Ketamine isn't going anywhere. I've done Ketamine via nasal spray, not via infusion. Again, not knowing where you are, it's hard to say - in my neck of the woods, infusion therapy with ketamine isn't covered by most major insurance plans, and isn't cheap. BUT it's rapidly gaining popularity, and may become more insurable as a time goes by.

My personal advice would be to continue with the TMS, finish it out. Then see where you're at. If you experience a positive result, talk with your doc about low-dose lithium, which is (apparently) very beneficial for extending TMS results.

 

[Starfish]

thanks for your input joeylittle. gosh, a lot has happened with me (and the world) since March 8, just over 2 weeks ago since I posted last here about ketamine. My TMS doc shut his practice down for clients a week ago Monday, after receiving 12 treatments. That was the day I had been originally scheduled to start Ketamine. I called the Ketamine clinic and they had space for me to come in that day. I had 3 treatments last week and 1 this week. I have 2 more this week (one today). That is the suggested protocol for effective treatment. Also I will probably expect to be going back for recharges whenever it deems appropriate.

So, I will tell you so far what I think of infusion Ketamine for me. Wonder drug. I feel like a different person, I think like a different person. The challenges are still there.....the core thinking issues but they are clearer to me and I am able to make healthier decisions for myself...... but still struggling with some OCD issues being stuck reading and watching news for way too long but that might just be because so much is happening in the news right now that seems like watching a movie unfold.... I can't help but wonder right now what depressed state I would be in.....how heavy I would feel if I were not doing ketamine right now. I see a lot more possibilities.

So, without going into more detail than that, I will say it is the most quick acting treatment that I have ever experienced.... i feel like my head, though still stuck in some dimensions, is getting unstuck. It is like I am getting some sort of reprieve from my mind that I have needed for years.

And I totally agree that I need to use my time to get to the core beliefs and actively challenge them, which i feel more capable of doing.

And it IS expensive. $400 per infusion. Fortunately I have some money saved and so far do not regret spending it on this and will not mind spending it again if I need to.

Oh also, I learned that the ketamine in the nasal spray only has half of the molecules that the real ketamine has so it does not do the "repair to the cells" as effectively as the infusion. Pharmaceutical companies could not patent the whole ketamine as it is an old drug used as an anesthetic for surgery, something like that anyway. It is all about the ketamine interacting with glutamines (spelling??) in the brain and basically repairing cells and enhancing connections speedily.

I have to say that I feel like I have experienced this phenomena personally...... and believe you me, I have been a tough case that no drugs nor other therapies can crack.

And, I will go back and continue the TMS protocol as you suggested as neither treatment lasts forever and my brain needs all the help it can get and I get treatments of TMS free with Medicare in US.

 

[joeylittle]

Thanks for the update, @crushed ! Sounds like you've had a fantastic turnaround, that's really good to hear :)

I learned that the ketamine in the nasal spray only has half of the molecules that the real ketamine has so it does not do the "repair to the cells" as effectively as the infusion.

Yes...My problem with going directly to the infusions (at the time) was not being able to tackle asking someone to pick me up. In my state they are requiring that someone you know pick you up and take you home, can't be a cab service. I've gotten pretty isolated and while I'm sure there are people I could ask, I just feel like I can't ask.

Not a very good reason. The intranasal helped me with evening suicidal thinking, and since I could do it at home, that seemed at least like a small benefit I could get.

Im going to think hard about making it happen, though. Thanks so much for sharing your story.

 

[Starfish]

glad the nasal is helping with suicidal thoughts joeylittle. yes, my clinic has the same requirements on having someone pick you up. fortunately i have a daughter, son, and friend available especialy during the virus they are even more available. i walked there yesterday, it took 45 minutes and was good for me to walk. when all this is over maybe you can get an uber or cab for the 6 times they do the treatment. My doctor is so nice, he even told me he could give me a ride home since he lives not too far from me (in my little town)....that was before the virus struck when i was considering treatment. I love this doctor.....he was an ER physician for years and now has his own ketamine clinic as well as an opioid addiction clinic in the same space and is helping many people. He used ketamine in the ER for years and became fascinated with addiction issues which unfolded to where he is at right now. i feel very safe...they monitor my blood pressure the whole time and are wearing masks right now and disinfection everything. Best wishes!!!!!