Do We Ever Get To Stop Dealing With Trauma In Therapy?

[anthony]

Therapy can't do the hard work for you. Talk to a therapist about the problem. If you can't get to the root of the issue within a short time, chances are you're not going to in therapy. Be honest with yourself, that is the biggest thing. You have to do the hard work. Buy a few books on therapies that work for PTSD, read and understand what the model is trying to do for you, answer the questions, work through things and solve your problems. Again, nobody can do the hard work for you. Americans are obsessed with therapy, a cultural thing. A bad thing. Most of the world isn't like this with therapy, in that the aim is to solve the issue within 12 sessions, even catastrophic trauma.

Solve your problems. Every aspect of your trauma that negatively affects you is a problem. There are simple solutions to each of them. Then you have to chip away, day after day, at implementing the solution into your daily life.

Every day I use some aspect of the basic solutions and techniques to help me from spiraling.

 

[Charbella]

Most of the world isn't like this with therapy, in that the aim is to solve the issue within 12 sessions, even catastrophic trauma.

Does that mean the rest of the world is successful at doing it in with things like PTSD? CPTSD?

I agree with you that there seems to be a cultural thing going on, particularly with the younger generation and I agree it’s not a good thing. i Just wonder how therapists in other countries so quickly get a person who’s in such disarray that most PTSD people are in when they finally ask for help to trust them with their story. Is it because they don’t make that part of the equation? They instead give tools to help you get through it?

Were you good to go at 12 weeks or are you referring to mentality only?

 

[whiteraven]

Americans are obsessed with therapy, a cultural thing. A bad thing.

Totally agree with this!

 

[Rose White]

Americans are obsessed with therapy,

Americans are obsessed with therapy because they are told they need it, can’t get it (waitlists in some cities for competent therapists can be years long), and they need it desperately—look at the levels of violent crime, trafficking, substance abuse, poverty, incarceration, labor policies, medical expenses, etc. and then look at this list from the World Health Organization of countries that have more psychologists, psychiatrists, and/or social workers per capita than the U.S.:

Uruguay
Switzerland
Sweden
Slovenia
North Macedonia
Poland
Norway
New Zealand
Netherlands
Monaco
Luxembourg
Lithuania
Latvia
Japan
Israel
Hungary
Guatemala
Germany
France
Finland
Estonia
Czechia
Cuba
Croatia
Costa Rica
Canada
Belgium
Belarus
Australia
Argentina

Those that are lucky enough to get a therapist that gives them more than 12 weeks? Might talk about it more. Some people don’t even get 12 weeks with their insurance. And even when they do get it the co-pay might be prohibitive, often much higher than a doctor visit.

 

[Charbella]

Americans are obsessed with therapy because they are told they need it, can’t get it (waitlists in some cities for competent therapists can be years long), and they need it desperately—look at the levels of violent crime, trafficking, substance abuse, poverty, incarceration, labor policies, medical expenses, etc. and then look at this list from the World Health Organization of countries that have more psychologists, psychiatrists, and/or social workers per capita than the U.S.:

Uruguay
Switzerland
Sweden
Slovenia
North Macedonia
Poland
Norway
New Zealand
Netherlands
Monaco
Luxembourg
Lithuania
Latvia
Japan
Israel
Hungary
Guatemala
Germany
France
Finland
Estonia
Czechia
Cuba
Croatia
Costa Rica
Canada
Belgium
Belarus
Australia
Argentina

Those that are lucky enough to get a therapist that gives them more than 12 weeks? Might talk about it more. Some people don’t even get 12 weeks with their insurance. And even when they do get it the co-pay might be prohibitive, often much higher than a doctor visit.

I can totally agree with this but there are also a lot of people who have the money to afford it and do it because it seems the norm in their circles. Or the parent who has plenty of money so they send their kid to a therapist rather than just being there for their kid so their kid has someone to depend on. Like their kid has a problem rather than the problem being the parenting. Plus because they can afford it and use it those who need it are on waitlists because instead of paying out of pocket which is much easier for providers they must rely on insurance or worse yet government funded programs.

 

[Deleted member 42984]

@anthony, many people benefit from therapy. Also prolonged therapy. You can't judge an entire nation based on your own personal preferences. While I agree that you essentially has to do the work yourself, what if you're not capable? What if you need to cling to a therapist for a while, because your executive functioning is so bad that that is all you got?

There is no "right" way to do healing. People are different. Some prefer the DIY way from the very get-go, others need tons of therapy to even get to that point.

 

[Friday]

Americans are obsessed with therapy, a cultural thing. A bad thing.

We really are. But we’ve become / are becoming more and more a very “Raise your hand and ask for help.” kind of society.

- Kids are “supposed” to ask a grownup / get a teacher, rather than learning to solve their own problems.

- Grownups, meanwhile, are “supposed” to ask someone in “authority” to handle their problems for them. (Trevor Noah has a hilarious bit about the difference between US 911 & South African “911” that speaks directly to that. Ha. Okay. Totally worth it to go fetch the link.) As well as to get someone in “authority” to validate pretty much every single step of our lives. Which isn’t entirely a bad thing, I want a certified electrician wiring my house, rather than a meth head named Sparky, doctors with mad skills, engineers whose buildings don’t fall down, in short? The best man for the job. Just like everyone else. But other countries have similar or higher requirements of professionals without individuals becoming spineless litigious whingers, wringing their hands -or filming for likes- and waiting for someone else to do something. So IDK.

Not going to touch on “why” this cultural shift of learned helplessness has happened over the last century or so. Because THAT would be someone’s thousand page graduate thesis, and still prolly be incomplete. But it’s very much a thing, more and more ignoring regional boundaries & individual differences, and becoming part of our national identity.

 

[Rose White]

agree with this but there are also a lot of people who have the money to afford it and do it because it seems the norm in their circles.

Agree. I think sometimes there’s a sense from outsiders that all Americans are rich celebrities. Because that’s what is highlighted in the news. Anyone who isn’t? Is either on the end of some violent crime or the lucky recipient of some charity.

 

[Deleted member 42984]

learned helplessness

You raise an interesting point. I'm not gonna take a stance on this, as I know too little, but I've noticed that when it comes to addiction recovery, helplessness is sometimes even lauded (I'm not gonna disclose certain acronyms, but, you know. And we got it from you guys).

 

[Rose White]

helplessness is sometimes even lauded

There is a subtle difference between helplessness and surrender with acceptance. Sometimes the fighting gets us deeper in addiction? There is a time to step back and a time to fight. If it’s all fight (or all helplessness) then a person might be digging themselves into the ground and languishing.

I don’t see how “raise your hand and ask for help” is synonymous with learned helplessness? But I do agree that there is trend in that direction. As a teacher of 20 years who works with teachers who have been practicing for 50 years we talk about this regularly. I have my own theories (related to shifts in education policies) which would probably best be explored in another thread.

 

[Deleted member 42984]

There is a subtle difference between helplessness and surrender with acceptance. Sometimes the fighting gets us deeper in addiction? There is a time to step back and a time to fight. If it’s all fight (or all helplessness) then a person might be digging themselves into the ground and languishing.

I think you're right. It's about balance.
When I think of it, helplessness can be a feature of addiction.
So can stubborn self-sufficiency.

 

[Friday]

…

I don’t see how “raise your hand and ask for help” is synonymous with learned helplessness?

So, sometime between the end of WWII & the start of the Vietnam War the US military decided to start taking recruit deaths / recruit safety more seriously.

One of the many ways they implemented that, was on the rifle range, to have recruits raise their hand and wait for a shooting instructor to come clear their weapon when it jammed.

Newsreel starts coming back from the Vietnam war, and what is seen over and over and over again during firefights? Hands. Thrust up into the air. Soldiers & Marines just lying there in the jungle. In the middle of active combat. Hands raised. Waiting patiently… Exactly like they’d been trained to do, whenever their weapon jammed.

>.<

So the military promptly nixed that aspect of recruit training, and instead of raising your hand and waiting for assistance from someone in authority, taught “Tap. Rack. Bang.” IE the simplest, fastest, and most effective way to clear a jammed rifle.

^^^ Time and time and time again, in countless examples, people who study human behavior have learned that …When we teach people to raise their hand (or stand, or whatever the cultures norms are) and ask for help as a FIRST step? Rather than to attempt to solve a problem first? That’s exactly what they do. No matter how little objective “sense” it makes.

Like people following road signs a prankster has moved. Like the Trevor Noah piece of calling the police about a suspicious person -vs- knowing/believing it is as much your right as anyone’s to confront him & ask his name is, his business is, or… walking away. (And in reverse, if someone comes up to you and demands to know your business? Refusing or choosing to supply it, rather than being obligated to). Like clearing a jam in your own weapon. Or learning to change a tire. Or researching relevant therapeutic techniques, evaluating, and applying them. Or to pursue a course of study. Or, or, or.

Having the authority, & self confidence to decide upon a course of action, without anyone else’s say so, approval, or validation… isn’t an innate skill. It’s a learned one.

As is waiting, helpless, for someone else to do something.