Humans can't be trusted and are not worth interacting with.

[HollowLavender]

My therapist and I have been talking a lot lately about trust and forming "meaningful relationships" but it feels like a waste of time and big risk for small payout.

I know my BPD and PTSD have made trusting anyone with my emotions feel impossible but is it not true? When she explains things about how forming connections and trusting others it feels like she's talking in another language or something. She says I use sex as a way to form temporary bonds with other people and it's surface level but isn't that safer? I don't care if I end up in a crack den or a strangers house or other dangerous places but I'm terrified of any emotional conversations and people drive me crazy I either get super pissed and admittedly my family's fighting style is that of a apex predator (you grab em by the throat rip that shit out and leave em breathless no mercy, no hesitation and survivors.) or I end up completely submissive to them and idolize them to the point I change everything about myself. I feel like no one wants anything resembling the real me which I don't even know who that is but I know she's a bad person and worthless but I can play a role for a few hours at a time and they want me for something.

Isn't that how everyone is? People don't want broken things or depressed people they want people who can get them something it's always transactional isn't it?

I can't tell if this is a cognitive distortion or reality and no one wants to admit it? How can you trust people at face value? People lie about everything don't they? How do you trust people when the very idea seems like a foreign concept? I don't even know if it's something I want but I know I should want it according to everyone else. Am I broken? Am I being stupid or bitter?

 

[gorgonzola]

Yours sounds like an insecure attachment style, a very common consequence of childhood trauma (my own I characterise as "avoidant as fսck" as it's mostly in that direction) and which indirectly contributes to cognitive distortions. As well as the trauma directly doing so.

I ain't got no magic solutions else I might not have an avoidant (and somewhat fearful) attachment style.

 

[Movingforward10]

People don't want broken things or depressed people they want people who can get them something it's always transactional isn't it?

I don't think it is always transactional. I think, yep we do get something out of being in a relationship with someone else but it isn't 'tit for tat' type stuff. It's care. You care about someone and they care about you, so that means caring about their emotions. It's not - do this for me and then I will reward you with some attention. It's reciprocal. And messy, sometimes mistakes happen and people unintentionally hurt each other. But a healthy relationship is able to work that through. By apologising and learning how not to hurt the other person again. Unhealthy ones: it's all or nothing, or held against the person for ever etc.

How can you trust people at face value?

I don't think it's wise to trust what people say all the time.
It's what they do too.
Do their words match their actions? How do you feel about what they are saying and doing? Does it call you or make you nervous, and why is that?

It's a minefield trusting people. I'm not sure I have it down fully, and am working on it too with my T. But I think it possible to learn. I do trust people. But that's my partner and some friends, all of whom I have known for decades. The trust has built up over a very very long time.

People lie about everything don't they?

No. Everyone might tell a white lie (yes, those jeans look great - those type of lies) . But bigger lies (I love you, but then the person cheats etc), no not everyone does that.

It's very hard to work out where the line is of 'good' versus 'bad' behaviour.

Made more complicated if your sense of self is fragile or doesn't exist. As how can you work out what you think is ok boot how you are treated when you don't know who you are and how exactly you want to be treated?

 

[arfie]

empathy, lavender. my intense mistrust of all things human has quite literally driven me off-grid to evade all things human. alas, that wilderness adventure only taught me that i am human, too. humans are a gregarious species. humans are not designed to live alone.

I can't tell if this is a cognitive distortion or reality and no one wants to admit it?

by whatever summary, it's a booger bear to sort. works in progress. of these two options, i vote, "cognitive distortion." near as i can tell, all humans have broken spots and i have known quite a few hideously broken people that are quite lovable.

 

[ruen]

My therapist and I have been talking a lot lately about trust and forming "meaningful relationships" but it feels like a waste of time and big risk for small payout.

I know my BPD and PTSD have made trusting anyone with my emotions feel impossible but is it not true? When she explains things about how forming connections and trusting others it feels like she's talking in another language or something. She says I use sex as a way to form temporary bonds with other people and it's surface level but isn't that safer? I don't care if I end up in a crack den or a strangers house or other dangerous places but I'm terrified of any emotional conversations and people drive me crazy I either get super pissed and admittedly my family's fighting style is that of a apex predator (you grab em by the throat rip that shit out and leave em breathless no mercy, no hesitation and survivors.) or I end up completely submissive to them and idolize them to the point I change everything about myself. I feel like no one wants anything resembling the real me which I don't even know who that is but I know she's a bad person and worthless but I can play a role for a few hours at a time and they want me for something.

Isn't that how everyone is? People don't want broken things or depressed people they want people who can get them something it's always transactional isn't it?

I can't tell if this is a cognitive distortion or reality and no one wants to admit it? How can you trust people at face value? People lie about everything don't they? How do you trust people when the very idea seems like a foreign concept? I don't even know if it's something I want but I know I should want it according to everyone else. Am I broken? Am I being stupid or bitter?

The blame-shame game played for what are normal human reactions and questions to abnormal, painful and systemic abandonment and abuse is what's bitter and stupid, not you.

Learning to respond through recognition, acceptance, inquiry and nurturing slowly grows the beautiful flowers and fruit of response YOU DESERVE, replacing the weeds and allergies of reaction.

This takes time and patience, love, respect and understanding...things not consistent or compatible with one's harshly trained nature, resulting in such things as bewliderment and frustration.

It feels weird, even wrong at first to practice what we have been punished or rejected for by those who were supposed to be there and care for us; sometimes we just need a bit more help, gentleness or different tools along the way and you're doing it.

 

[Grasping Hope]

Isn't that how everyone is? People don't want broken things or depressed people they want people who can get them something it's always transactional isn't it?

Hell no!

With some caveats. People have limitations, their own stories and issues. There is never going to be a knight in shining armour who will swoop in and fix everything and be perfect. People do sometimes disappoint, not show up, or reach the limit of what they can do in a given situation.

But from there to generalize that people only want people they can get something from is black and white thinking. There are loads of people in the world who truly care, not because they are getting something but because they are strong enough in themselves that they have something to give back. Because positive energy makes the world a better place.

Not everyone is going to see you as broken just because you have issues. It is true that the more you heal, the more you will attract relationships with healthy people. But it's a continuum, not an either/or. Any work you can do on self-regulation (best with a therapist) will help you grow distress tolerance and the ability to see shades of grey between the black and white.

 

[HollowLavender]

But from there to generalize that people only want people they can get something from is black and white thinking. There are loads of people in the world who truly care, not because they are getting something but because they are strong enough in themselves that they have something to give back. Because positive energy makes the world a better place.

I don't understand how you can feel that way? Everyone I've ever met has been in it for something. People are judgmental and cruel they don't want to help anyone but themselves that's why they degrade anyone who's different and broken? How can you say theirs grays when it's never been seen in my life? It feels like ignoring the evidence?

 

[Grasping Hope]

I don't understand how you can feel that way? Everyone I've ever met has been in it for something. People are judgmental and cruel they don't want to help anyone but themselves that's why they degrade anyone who's different and broken? How can you say theirs grays when it's never been seen in my life? It feels like ignoring the evidence?

Well, to answer your first question, I feel this way because I know it from personal experience. To begin with, me. While I'm far from perfect, I try as much as I can to be kind and generous, expecting nothing in return. That's my essence, I was born this way. The cult I grew up in did their darnedest to destroy that in me, but they couldn't manage it.

Point in favour of this argument: I'm taking time to answer your post, trying to help you find the good in the world, for no other reason than hoping you find the good in the world.

And I've known soooooo many other good people. So many.

So, I feel this way from experience. And I hope you notice that I haven't led a charmed existence and am not saying this out of naivete. Heck, even in the cult, while I was being tortured, there was kindness. Not on the part of the torturers, of course, but the children would often be kind and loving to one another, even at great personal cost.

How about you? Are you always expecting to get something from everyone you encounter, or are you sometimes kind and giving because it feels good to be that way?

Second:

Everyone I've ever met has been in it for something.

Really? Everyone? Start small. Has someone ever smiled at you on the street? Said something kind? Has anyone offered to share a meal, without asking anything in return? Has a toddler ever handed you a toy, or a bite of their cookie? See where I'm going with this? Start small. Are you really saying no one has ever been kind without expecting anything?

If you stand by that in every single case, then you've been very unlucky and need to meet some better people. You could let us help you problem solve to get there. But a therapist (as well as us) would be better.

People are judgmental and cruel

Some are. I know too many of these myself. But again... everyone? Do you feel, for instance, that on this thread, the people who are answering you are being judgemental and cruel? If so, let us know how we can do better.

But many are not. See above.

that's why they degrade anyone who's different and broken

Yeah, some people are like that. Sucks. Feel awful. Go ahead and rant about it as much as you need to. Get the pain out. I do that frequently, ranting about people not caring, not wanting to see other people's pain, and being judgemental and selfish, and how much that hurts me.

I would hesitate to attribute WHY they do these things, though, without knowing for sure. I feel like it's often about fear. Fear of acknowledging that suffering as intense as yours or mine or others' on this forum exists. Sometimes it's not that they don't care but because they don't know how to differentiate, so they are overwhelmed by the suffering of others because it feels like their own and they haven't done the inner work to learn to be present with another person's suffering without taking it on. So it's easier to blame the sufferer. Or they might just be ignorant and repeating what others have told them. Lots of reasons.

How can you say theirs grays when it's never been seen in my life?

Because it's there. I don't know you, but the fact that you are functioning even well enough to be posting here means you have survived, and it's hard to believe you could do that in a world that didn't have any shades of grey in it. See above.

I'd like to draw your attention to where you say "it's never been seen in my life." The wording there is interesting. You say you've never seen it, not that it isn't there. Would you be willing to start looking around for shades of grey? Like a detective? See above, start very small. I believe you that you've known a lot of unkind people and your life has been rough. You wouldn't be here otherwise. But I also know that such a life in our formative years can change our perception and make it very black and white. We have to train ourselves to see the shades of grey. In ourselves as well as others. And to choose, gradually, to move towards the light. I promise you, there is light.

Sorry if I've missed it, has it been suggested that you find a DBT program? I feel like that might help a lot.

Keep posting if it's helping. I hope this helped even a little.

 

[Rose White]

Everyone I've ever met has been in it for something.

Does this include you?

 

[HollowLavender]

Does this include you?

I'm a bad person. I'm broken and selfish and a mistake that never got erased

 

[Movingforward10]

I'm a bad person. I'm broken and selfish and a mistake that never got erased

How are you a bad person?

A lot of us on here thought/think these things about ourselves. But usually it's because we internalised the blame of the abuse we endured. Yes, out of that we may then have done some messy things. But ultimately, this "I am a bad person" could be a cognitive distortion.

What could also be happening, because of that belief, is that you then seek confirmation of that core belief by pursuing relationships with the same type of person who is horrible to you.

There are good people. Like others have said, we're all here for starters!

 

[Dark.Green.Feathers]

I struggle with trust. some of my parts are very misanthropic too. humans are selfish/evil/etc. especially when it comes to sex. those are my distortions, based on my experiences. they cover "everyone" and yet I have people in my life who I *do* trust and who are kind to me despite me being difficult and needing their support often.
but the distortion still exists as something I have to contend with because to me there is a nebulous "them" that are out to take advantage of me if they see the opportunity, and the purpose of that belief has been to protect me. which makes it tough to beat now that it's hindering me.

I can be suspicious of everyone, parents, couples, how do I know they're not abusing each other behind closed doors? people of either sex who pursue sexual relationships are always selfish and willing to abuse others if to get what they want, how do I know my therapist isn't one of them? "nobody" cares or takes seriously what I've been though. "everybody" thinks it's a joke and would do the same.

how am i supposed to believe that sex can be loving and tender when every single person i see talking about it treats it like anything but?

things like this, I believe them despite now having people in my life who prove them wrong. it doesn't make me bad, this isn't unique to us, but it does make stuff hard. I have friends who are a couple, some parts of me have to try hard to give the benefit of the doubt and to try to believe they actually do have a normal, loving, respectful relationship where they honour eachother truly. while I can logically see it's true.

not broken, just suffering the effects of traumatic experiences.
I don't believe you necessarily should trust people on face value, but there is a middle ground (or quite a few middle grounds) between trusting blindly and trusting nobody. for example I trust some users on here to an extent, which is to be commenting in my best interest, and out of concern. but I wouldn't trust them to know much about me offline because I've never met them before. some people I do know in real life I trust to know that I'm not feeling great, but not to know the sensitive details. others used to be that but now they sometimes do know the sensitive details.

I dont have much advice other than to stick at it, I think it's a skill that has to be learnt / kind of healed into as well. expecting to be fully trusting all at once would be too much. we can only handle so much exposure to stuff that feels dangerous at once. gradual process.