Gaslighting: Protecting Yourself

[Meadowsweet]

Maddog, there is nothing for you to be ashamed of at all.
I think it is the most difficult part of abuse in relationships. The abused if often asked or made to feel that they should protect the abuser, directly or through manipulation and emotional abuse, then the neat lines of truth become blurred.
You're not alone.

 

[BloomInWinter]

(((((Maddog))))

 

[BloomInWinter]

((((Meadowsweet)))

What do you mean by 'gave guidance'? Because the only appropriate guidance for internet or phone sex is DON'T DO IT.

It sounds lke a set-up by yet another Internet Troll.

 

[Meadowsweet]

((((Meadowsweet)))

What do you mean by 'gave guidance'? Because the only appropriate guidance for internet or phone sex is DON'T DO IT.

It sounds lke a set-up by yet another Internet Troll.

He picked up on issues I'd developed from a previous abusive relationship, and it felt like finally someone understood me. This was issues I'd never talked about in the seven years since the bad relationship ended. During those years, I had been with my childrens father, who wasn't abusive, but used my low-self esteem and submissiveness to his advantage and wouldn't let me talk about my previous experiences.

When I met this man on the internet, I was single for the first time since my teens, had no friends and he gave me hope that if I wanted to change, I could be a strong, sexually confident woman. He started by encouraging me to use more explicit words, saying that words I used were childish, and I was in my thirties. I'd not been on the internet long and this was a completely new, and seemed un-threatening. He always made clear that he was just helping me see how I could be, and I believed it.

It was only when it started making me uncomfortable and I rejected it that I saw another side of him. And the use of gaslighting from him and third parties, and other strange things have left me extremely paranoid and, as maddog mentioned, unsure whats in my mind and whats real. Last year, I came upon some sexual chats that had automatically saved. Looking through them then, I could see that they were highly sexual (it wasn't my fantasizing or making it up) and it helped to see that I was remembering correctly. But, because he had been the person who advised me not to call the police or talk on the message boards about an attempt on my life, that he witnessed,, it has made me sick with suspicion and fear. On a bad day, Ive been convinced he's some kind of cult leader and dangerous. But, with a greater acceptance and understanding of trauma, I feel that his method of attack is with mind games. And if I don't fear him, he won't hurt me.

 

[BloomInWinter]

(((((Meadowsweet)))))

I'm so sorry that happened to you!

Are you safe now?

 

[Meadowsweet]

(((((Meadowsweet)))))

I'm so sorry that happened to you!

Are you safe now?

I think I'm safe Bloom, but only because I'm silent and no threat to anyone.
Sometimes I want to make a noise about it, I want people to see that what went on was wrong. But I don't know if I would be safe if people started to believe me. It's ironic that he posed as the person that would help me to stop acting like an abused woman, and in the end I'm cowering in a corner for fear of him.

Thankyou for listening and believing me Bloom, it feels such a relief.

 

[BloomInWinter]

Dear Meadowsweet,

I am a professional webmaster by trade. I deal with many such as yourself. Sadly, your story is not unique.

If any of them contact you again, I'd respond with 'Never contact me nor come near me in an venue nor on the Internet or I will notify the authorities."

Save all emails. I hope you have contacted the police already so they are aware of these people...and they can put the scare on THEM.

Chances are, you are but one of their victim and with any luck, they'll get caught sooner or later.

You have much strength and courage to face this. You likely also qualify for resources from your local women's assistance group. Are you seeing a good T.?

May your troubles cease and fortune smile upon you. :)

 

[Meadowsweet]

Well talking about that gave me an awful night. If I keep away from them all, i'll be safe. But its not a crime, and I've done those awful things that my past has trained me for, like apologising, begging for forgiveness etc because Im scared. I'm a gaslighters dream, they can do very little and my own fears will do the rest.

I think thats why people with previous abuse and/or PTSD are particularly vulnerable to manipulation. The advice you give regarding keeping all emails and not responding, is very good. Too late for me, but good.

I'm waiting to see a therapist, so hoopefully things will get better.

 

[BloomInWinter]

Here's the steps of the tactic, 'The Pity Play', to watch out for;

"Charm
Risk-taking, and convincing others to do it with them
Recognizing a person who is decent and trusting—the perfect target
Sexual seduction
Crocodile tears — especially when sociopaths are about to be confronted
Righteous indignation — Plan B when sociopaths are about to be confronted
Exploiting social and professional roles
Gaslighting — making victims doubt their own perceptions"

Source: The Killing Joke

I am especially susceptable to crocodile tears and allowing my social roles, such as friendship, mom, sister, etc. to be gaslight when exploited.

 

[sea]

Shame time. :cry:

There are many who gaslight others with no idea they communicate that way.

I've recently become aware that I do this. This:

The powerful gaslighter (he has power both because he asserts it and because the gaslightee gives it to him!) engages in an ongoing, systematic knocking down of the other, less powerful, person, purposely controlling the relationship by telling the other that there is something wrong with the way she sees the world or there's something wrong with who she is -- and-- the gaslightee, by agreeing with him or allowing his perceptions define hers, over time, loses confidence, feels unsure and experiences a growing shakiness of self.

Really hit home for me. I don't do it on purpose. I honestly don't. (How honest can you expect someone who communicates so shakily to be, I guess, but you know). I don't mean to make people feel bad but I'm realizing that, especially when I'm arguing with people, ad hominem is like my default arguing style. It's ... awful. Ugh. It's like, when people don't make sense to me... when they say things that offend me, I just. It's like. The best examples I can provide that I think of recently that you can see are with Ironbird and on the thread about diagnosis being helpful, or the thread about movies causing PTSD, or...any thread..where I argue..(I should just not argue. I'm mean.)

They are wrong, and therefore...THEY SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! I mean my whole attitude is just "Wow. How can a person BE this wrong? What is WRONG with you?" It's bad. I had someone PM me totally apologizing for all this crap and I was like woah, what? I don't - think anything like that, and then I realized, of course they're apologizing. I just made them feel like complete shit for just talking. Like I thought they were attacking me, so I had to jump down their throat and attack them back and tear them down. (I, fortunately, deleted that post, but there was another where I kinda did the same thing.)

I do other things too like, instead of indicating what is my opinion and what is fact, I present everything I say like it's unmitigated fact and it's completely correct and there is No Contradiction Because I Am Right. I mean, it's just, gross. Lol. I know it is something I learned growing up. I don't know how to stop doing it. I am trying not to argue with people anymore, not get involved anymore, because that is when I notice I am the worst. I feel so gross. There's so much about me that is similar to my dad that it's nauseating. I have to go take a billion showers now. Sigh.

Unfortunately I don't really know how to stop doing this kinda stuff. Like the opinions/fact thing I've had an issue with probably since, I can remember, and I've tried to work on it and consistently failed. I can't see the line, or something, where it's drawn. In my head it's pretty clear but when I express myself it's like completely retarded. Like when I talk about it with my therapist or with people they are just like "Oh, no, you don't do that. You're not like that."

I'm like...that's not... that's not helpful! Lol. Like they think I am saying it to get pity or something but I'm not. Like it's there. I talk about my issues with empathy and people are like "Oh, no, of course not." I genuinely want to stop this crap because I honestly don't want to hurt anybody at all. Like when I am arguing with people I sort of feel like when they reply to me and disagree with me, it is like an attack, or something. Like they think I'm stupid, so I have to totally annihilate them and Prove Them Wrong.

Sigh. I have no idea where to begin and people seem to think I'm not even like that anyway, so it's like, nobody is willing to explain it to me because there's no problem there. No, I don't want to hurt people or communicate like that, but ... I do. I hate it. I didn't even really know that's what it was. I grew up for 15 years alone with someone who communicated like that so I can't figure out what is normal or what is them, or what is influenced, esp because our society is so f*cked up and mean anyway.

What is just "blunt" and what is gaslighting/meanness/attacking? IDK. What is an attack against me and what is a genuine debate? Are people allowed to disagree with me? Do they hate me? Sigh. I don't want any part of it so for now I am just backing off talking to people for the most part because I seem to inevitably wind up turning ugly. I feel really bad about it. It's here on the forum in some of the stuff I've said and I feel very bad about it. I don't know how to really apologize all that well or how to take responsibility for it.

How do you teach someone to communicate? Sign me up please :alien:

 

[Meadowsweet]

"Charm
Risk-taking, and convincing others to do it with them
Recognizing a person who is decent and trusting—the perfect target
Sexual seduction
Crocodile tears — especially when sociopaths are about to be confronted
Righteous indignation — Plan B when sociopaths are about to be confronted
Exploiting social and professional roles
Gaslighting — making victims doubt their own perceptions"

Wow, thanks for sharing this. It couldn't be more precise.

Sea, I'm not very good at communicating, and can be too blunt. Its often not because I feel blunt towards the other person, its more that there is too much on my mind to express it thoughtfully.

But, from bloominwinter's description above, the gaslighters I've experienced are excellent communicators. Its their ability to communicate so impressively and charmingly, that draws people in. People who are blunt or argumentative don't draw people in, they put barriers up that keep people away.

 

[BloomInWinter]

((((((sea)))))))

This communication style seems to be a reactionary one common in 'blaming/shaming' dysfunctional families where there *is* no healthy model of communication.

I also believe this is why just one person's recovery can really help a dysfunctional family system have a chance at a more peaceful existence. When there is one who doesn't play by the old rules, the really dysfunctional stuff stands out.

I have to believe that to keep going. Because when I who broke free and got help, nobody thanked me or wanted to help me. They felt betrayed and like I was lying.

Several funerals later...well, I'm believed now. :<