What Makes A Man?

[just me here]

That's what bothers me; not being so practiced in expressing outwardly what I feel inside makes me question what is 'emotionally appropriate' and what is not. I feel things very deeply, and as if it comes from the center of my being and it drives me, and my rational mind at times conflicts, rules, and balances with my emotions on a good day. I feel that I'm always 'aware' of what people can take, and what they cannot, and it makes me more quietly reserved when in truth I may not really be that at all. So, how can I be true to my self, and harmonious/successful with others?

got me, pal.

So many people need to learn the lessons their daddy didn't get around to. I guess I am lucky I learned the lesson that no one elses behaviour is worth a night in jail or a civil suit- you can't go around trying to save the world from thoughtless selfish people. Best I can do is volunteer to go pull them out of their cars and put them on a helicopter or ambulance AFTER they dui into a tree or innocent driver. Best I can do is vote for bond measures for bigger jails and larger police forces.

I am in no way qualified to comment on getting along in society, I basically hold my nose, plug my ears and keep my eyes on the prize whenever I am around the citizenry anymore.

 

[Taven Carlsen]

I can't entirely agree that PTSD or any persistent mental illness clarifies - it gives a bias to reality, and that might coincidentally be useful but usually not. Like you said earlier AzureMind you're missing the good parts of life. They're there.

 

[AzureMind]

Justmehere:So many people need to learn the lessons their daddy didn't get around to

That being said, if parents, not just fathers kicked in more rather than continuing the cycle of abuse, we probably wouldn't need more jails/larger police forces. A lack of respect for authority, and a preoccupation with the superficial desires is the perogative of the majority of a sometimes THOUGHTLESS generation I'm apart of...strange. :cautious:

 

[AzureMind]

Are those who do not suffer from mental illness in possession of a certain bias to reality TC? Of course! The bias is the reverse of those who suffer from mental illness; they learn to trust at the other extreme believing at times they are exempt from deep suffering and life-altering experiences, and yet, these experiences exist; it's like during the Rennisance, when people believed that the world was cubed, and one could sail off the edge of it...it's ignorance to an particular point of view/experience that is ignorant and invalid. What you don't know can indeed hurt you.

In terms of the big picture, we all are equal halves of the same coin don't you think? What is reality but one's subjective experience/interpretation of it? The capacity to find opportunity where there is next to nothing shows a resourcefulness that most people who don't suffer never usually learn. Truly the good is there in life regardless of PTSD's presence or not. I just make light of my condition rather than lament it or suffer over it.

 

[Hashi]

That being said, if parents, not just fathers kicked in more rather than continuing the cycle of abuse, we probably wouldn't need more jails/larger police forces. . :cautious:

And we wouldn't need so many therapists.

I don't buy that my parents did they best they could with the knowledge that they had. I think they did the best they could given what they were willing to do. They weren't willing to do nearly enough. I wish there was some validation for that. Their generation, their upbringing, their own experiences - nothing justifies how defective they were as parents.

Regarding barely knowing what makes you happy, not knowing what is a pleasurable actiivity for you, I can relate to that. I feel like that "me" is somewhere deep inside and gradually I'm finding it out. At the same time, it seems weird that other people just know, don't have to wonder who they are, didn't have it hammered out of them since birth. When you do discover things, though, it feels kind of... valuable. Hard won. Worth keeping hold of.

 

[AzureMind]

I don't buy that my parents did they best they could with the knowledge that they had. I think they did the best they could given what they were willing to do. They weren't willing to do nearly enough. I wish there was some validation for that. Their generation, their upbringing, their own experiences - nothing justifies how defective they were as parents.

Hashi, You hit my life's nail RIGHT on the head!! WELL SAID!! :) If ONLY I had the proper phrasing for that all these years!! I don't buy it either with my parents; my father was the 'High School Hero' my mother was the 'Debutant', and both came from relatively good backgrounds; they had friends, family who loved, and supported them, heck, SPOILED them rotten...they never learned appreciation for ANYTHING, and even pout to this DAY when they don't get what they want, but don't hesitate to indulge their temporary desires? Ridiculous...

You would think that being a parent, (although a major pain in the butt at times) would be something you undertake with the knowledge that what you do can DEEPLY effect your offspring for the rest of their lives with your indifference, anger, drug/alcohol abuse, and constant ignorance to your child's needs; it surprises me how oblivious parents can be to things that are so simple to empathize with! In the end it's as you say; What are they WILLING to do? The presence of abuse in your life doesn't dictate that with 100% accuracy, you will abuse your own offspring...I think it takes a certain callousness that some people are innately predisposed to have, and pass on to their children, and thus callousness/indifference is the cornerstone of abuse in my mind...when you stop caring about the welfare of those you're SUPPOSED to love, it's easy to hurt them, and expose them to trauma.

 

[Tinyflame]

It seems so, AM, what damage one can do to a child, or any human being really.
Maybe it is/ was also denial.

Btw, what 'makes a man', to me, would be someone who cares for others, tells it like it is, is honest, lives and lets live, but isn't afraid (or even if they are) stands up with respect for others, for what they believe in. Who does the best they can, and is comfortable in a strong, supporting role.

 

[AzureMind]

I think it's in alot of great men to naturally want to protect others around them and counsel, and support them...to find the strength within themselves, and show others that strength/potential that lies within themselves when they can't see it in themselves; it's what I do/aspire to be. I just want to be the best dad I can be for MY children, and I AM going to be a father; there's nothing better than helping with the kids, teaching them, watching them grow, laughing with them, and rediscovering things about childhood you may not have gotten to fully experience for yourself...Kids, are AWESOME! :)

I was taught to live for myself, and NOT try to save the world; but what can you do, when it's just 'in you' to TRY to save the world?

 

[Tinyflame]

Well, one person counts as the world they say AM.
Good for you, best wishes for much joy. :)

 

[Taven Carlsen]

I was taught to live for myself, and NOT try to save the world; but what can you do, when it's just 'in you' to TRY to save the world?

I think it's a healthy reaction to bad times to try to keep the same evil away from others. Some pass trouble along whenever they can - the opposite makes more sense.

 

[Tinyflame]

Maybe TC is on to something, I can't bear the thought of others suffering, knowing how it feels.
Or hearing something has occurred to someone, and knowing where it may lead.

 

[AzureMind]

Pain, and suffering is unavoidable, even if you attempt to be the shield for someone; you're usually fighting the inevitable, acting as a dam to hold back the waters of experience, they will come, right or wrong; in other words, the rain falls on the just, and injust alike, you cannot prevent the pain a person is promised in their lives. Eventually, we ALL have to go out into the world, and leave the safety of mommy and daddy behind, nothing you can do about that; but you CAN help counsel, and support them in their moment of suffering, which means to me a lot more than having someone, attempt to coddle and protect you from the world. An empathetic family member, friend, counselor, etc can help them use their pain as a driving forward force to help them use it to their advantage, and grow from. It's sad to say in a way, but some lessons don't come easily, and a little pain can go a LONG way...some people have to go through things personally in order to learn from it.

I don't pretend to live in a world where people only get along everyday, and love each other unfailingly; bad things happen, but not facing them them, or shirking off the responsibility of helping someone who suffers like you did doesn't get to the bottom of anything; it just keeps the cycle going on. I'm a realist, truly, but that doesn't mean that we can't find a means to help elevate our society with knowledge and information; keeping people informed about the threats of PTSD, and domestic violence, providing more community support/treatment options for sufferers of mental disorders, and more community-based/sponsored events and places where people can develop a sense of community, and pull together in times of need. :) Practical solutions to a very LARGE problem is the best way to tackle any problem.

I've been through war, and if I can help someone ease another persons suffering while they attempt to heal, than I'm all for it :)