No, I Did Not Violate Your Boundaries

[freakofnurture]

My new therapist and I just passed 20 sessions. Throughout these sessions - and especially today's - and I kept feeling that she simply can't deal with the fact that 1. I'm still scared of her (I sit with knees up against my chest), that I 2. need to see her as as my therapist and nothing else, and our relationship as 100% perfectly professional and that I 3. really, actually, genuinely have no desire whatsoever to interact privately with more than my four chosen human friends.

It's okay, she doesn't have to be able to deal with this. But then she needs to tell me that and end the therapeutic relationship.

Here's what she does instead:

She keeps trying to change these three things about me, using direct methods, again and again, coercing me to explain what I feel and think, again and again, then arguing against my feelings, thereby overstepping universal boundaries as well es some that I explicitly set on numerous occasions.

Today she also said: "Maybe it feels as if I had overstepped a boundary there, but I really didn't. You have a distorted view of reality."

Then she tried to tell me that mistakes happen in all relationships, as if 1. I didn't know that and 2. it were just an 'oopsie' that she completely invalidated my feelings after overstepping a number of boundaries.

I am so utterly done with her! I feel so betrayed and it's hard not to believe that this is just another example of the reason why I am scared of people.

The problem is, I really need to have a therapist to keep me going. I need to feel like I am at least doing something about my PTSD.

I'm thinking about doing some therapeutic stuff on my own but I don't know how far that'll get me and if it can stabilise me as much. I'm also thinking about contacting the therapist I had before and see if she'd take me in; but she's not a trauma therapist and already told me that she's not comfortable working with a client who's diagnosis is outside of her expertise.

I'm so pissed and I feel like shit. Someone please tell me that what my therapist just did was totally out of line and that I don't have to suck it up, deal with it and see her next week :(

 

[safenow]

IMHO, It doesn't sound like you and your T are a match. You have that right to have one you can feel safe with. I recommend you talk to your old therapist and see if she can refer you to someone.

Also, read, read, read. Babette Rothschild has a wonderful book, "The Body Remembers", the psychophysiology of trauma and trauma treatment. The casebook that goes with that (by the same name) if unifying methods and models in the treatment of trauma and PTSD. There is also a good book by Peter Levine, "Waking the Tiger - Healing Trauma".

Be good to yourself. Be kind, and patient with yourself. You didn't get PTSD in an instant. Give yourself time to heal. And to do that you need to feel safe with those who work with you.

 

[freakofnurture]

Babette Rothschild has a wonderful book, "The Body Remembers"

Thanks, I'll look that up.

There is also a good book by Peter Levine, "Waking the Tiger - Healing Trauma".

I do actually own that book and read it. But since I suffered mainly emotional abuse, leading to a complex trauma, I didn't find it particularly helpful.

Be good to yourself. Be kind, and patient with yourself. You didn't get PTSD in an instant. Give yourself time to heal. And to do that you need to feel safe with those who work with you.

:) Thanks.

 

[CrazyHorse]

I have a basic rule to navigate from: If I feel my boundaries have been violated - they have! Boundaries are not generic. The action might not have violated someone else's boundaries. I will not accept someone else's opinion on when a boundary of mine is violated or not. It is my call entirely. If my therapist ever said anything even close to what have been said to you, I would fire her instantly! But well, that is my boundary :)

Best of luck to you.

 

[Loveneverfails]

I just wanted to give you some perspective of what I believe a healthy relationship in therapy looks like. My T makes mistakes, they all do, but recently when he'd triggered me and I brought it up he didn't tell me it was my distorted view of reality. Which I do have issues with touch that aren't normal, but he knows I know that and that I don't know how to fix them. He apologized for crossing that boundary. He apologized once before for crossing the boundary I needed to have of not wanting him to feel responsible for my happiness or my problems at all. That's a pretty silly boundary to have with a therapist as arguably, that's part of their job.

But he apologized anyway because my boundaries are there to protect me, and while he's there to help me grow, he's also tasked with not hurting me worse in order to make it happen. There's only so much pushing a T can do, and often with trauma, a person has a noted lack of boundaries, what boundaries they have should be respected and built upon. Discussed extensively, not trod upon in order to make them change. But that's my opinion.

 

[Philippa]

I've had a friend pull that one on me "It might feel like I did this or that, but I didn't really" and he was a stalker who thought that scaring the shit out of his ex girlfriend because it was "romantic" was perfectly ok, and Australian LAW was just "beauracratic nonsense.":rolleyes: He had a profound lack of respect for other peoples boundaries, but this was his 'get away with it' clause. Don't like people who pull that one...at all.

I would say if you are feeling this way then it is clear that she is pulling rank over you and your feelings by saying she is the authority who knows, and you are merely the f*cked up one who should doubt your feelings...which is actually very unhelpful, dangerous and disempowering I think. Teaching you to not trust your feelings...all because you are not doing what she wants you to do, is manipulative...which I know therapists are supposed to be to a certain degree, in order to help shift you towards further growth, but not in that direction.

Sorry this has been the outcome for you with this person Freak of nurture, I know you have had past experiences with this person that have left you questioning the relationship.

I don't think your desire to only have limited contact with people you actually like and feel safe around is an unreasonable or growth stunting thing. If you come to change your mind later, then that will be your own prompting, not being forced into it by someone claiming they know better than your own feelings what you need.

She is going by the notion that because humans are social creatures, that everyone must be extremely social, like most are, and if not then it indicates something is wrong with them.

But there have always been the "oddballs" who prefer to remain on the fringes and are honest in themselves enough to say that they just aren't that social, and instead of trying to make them more like everyone else, it would be better to learn to accept and understand them, if possible, and if not possible, then leave them alone or help them find someone else who will.

I was reading yesterday something that might help. In therapy, many therapists think that pushing a client beyond their boundaries to get them where they want them to be, completely neglect the fact that boundaries are there for a reason, and that they hold an inherent function to keep the person safe.

Instead of trying to get the client to overlook boundaries, so they can feel like the one who knows better (which is a power struggle, and completely to do with the therapists own issues) they should instead be showing more patience and a listening ear, understanding that the person has those boundaries for a reason.

If she is a therapist and has no understanding of that after her years of experience, then she has a poor understanding of humans, or she is more concerned with feeling in control of the client, rather than do what is best for her/him. I think some 'professionals' abuse the psychological terminology to suit themselves in the therapeutic community, and it's a travesty.

 

[freakofnurture]

If my T ever said anything even close to what have been said to you, I would fire her instantly! But well, that is my boundary :)

I guess it's mine, too.

There's only so much pushing a T can do, and often with trauma, a person has a noted lack of boundaries, what boundaries they have should be respected and built upon. Discussed extensively, not trod upon in order to make them change. But that's my opinion.

I agree with you.

My therapist and I have talked about my boundaries multiple times, and the recurring theme was that my therapist understood my current boundaries to be absolute, unchanging barricades that I use as an excuse. Even when I told her explicitly that I have the ultimate goal of reducing these boundaries eventually, but am not yet ready for it, she kept telling me that I'm 'just maintaining walls' and 'refusing to move'. I feel like she simply doesn't understand what boundaries are good for, and that she doesn't trust me at all to know what is right for me.

Teaching you to not trust your feelings...all because you are not doing what she wants you to do, is manipulative...

Oh shit, I just remembered how she told me that if I were healthier and less difficult, my husband certainly wouldn't smoke as much, so if I want him to smoke less, I have to 'move'. Yeah, hah, what a great idea; suggest that I should feel responsible for my husband's choices. Now I really wonder why I returned to her after she said something this asinine.

I don't think your desire to only have limited contact with people you actually like and feel safe around is an unreasonable or growth stunting thing.

Especially after it only made my symptoms so much worse when I tried to socialise. One week max without symptoms, and seven weeks until I was paralysed with fear. Every. F*cking. Time.

If she is a therapist and has no understanding of that after her years of experience, then she has a poor understanding of humans, or she is more concerned with feeling in control of the client, rather than do what is best for her/him.

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that she, on some level, took my fear of her personally. Guh, I'm creeping myself out. My worst nightmare in the form of a therapist o.o

 

[Loveneverfails]

Even when I told her explicitly that I have the ultimate goal of reducing these boundaries eventually, but am not yet ready for it, she kept telling me that I'm 'just maintaining walls' and 'refusing to move'.

Even if they were walls, there is only so much a person can do with that before it is traumatizing for the client to push on them. You can only help a patient progress so far, if they aren't ready, then they simply aren't. It sounds to me like you are having trouble having your issues be heard and respected. You're allowed to not be whole, to have things you need to work on, to have painful memories and to have walls. Even non PTSDers struggle with those things. But especially as a sufferer, you need a T who understands and respects what that means for your life. If you acknowledge them, you need to be guided to the tools to overcome them, not pushed until you break. I'm sorry you're having this problem. Issues with T's are some of the most frustrating I've ever come across.

 

[Philippa]

Oh man...anyone who tells you that you are to blame for your husband smoking...and calls you "difficult" as someone supposed to be on your side, is no one you want on your side.

Can I ask...did you at any time, ever feel responsable inside for your husband smoking? If you did, she may have picked up on that in some way and used it against you? Either way, it's not cool at all. She deserves to be dumped on that point alone.

Trying to make you doubt what you feel as being real is emotional abuse. She should not be a therapist if she is inflicting this on her clients, and who knows how many others she does it to who may not be aware of it. So many therapists are like this...inflicting their own issues onto clients who are vulnerable.

It's one thing to accept that therapists are human and have their own problems, and taking that into account is good, but it would be interesting to note how she reacted if you were to confront her with this. I'd place money on the fact that she would use psychological language to twist it around so that it is merely your delusional mind at work.

 

[freakofnurture]

You can only help a patient progress so far, if they aren't ready, then they simply aren't.

Yup. And on the three issues I mentioned she just could not accept it and then blamed my "unwillingness to move" for our lack of progress.

Actually, I feel insulted by her right now, because I have learned and improved so much during my previous therapies, and I have always been pro-active, dedicated, willing to work hard and put myself into scary, painful situations over and over and over again, for the sake of exposure therapy - but now, suddenly, I just don't want to get better anymore? What? I feel like she doesn't even know me.

If you acknowledge them, you need to be guided to the tools to overcome them, not pushed until you break.

And that's where it gets tricky and frustrating for myself. All the usual tools and approaches have already failed in producing meaningful progress. I thought my therapist and I had an understanding that we'd look for an indirect approach and work on other issues first... but she just can't stay off of my fears and how I shouldn't even have them.

I'm sorry you're having this problem. Issues with T's are some of the most frustrating I've ever come across.

They certainly are!!!

Can I ask...did you at any time, ever feel responsable inside for your husband smoking?

Interestingly, no. I'm actually pretty good at leaving my husband's problems where they belong, while offering assistance and accomodations for him to solve/overcome them. I don't remember how I reacted to my T's guilt-trippy suggestion, though.

It's one thing to accept that therapists are human and have their own problems, and taking that into account is good, but it would be interesting to note how she reacted if you were to confront her with this. I'd place money on the fact that she would use psychological language to twist it around so that it is merely your delusional mind at work.

Well, there was her statment that she did, in fact, not violate my boundaries at all. And then she said that, even in professional relationships, mistakes happen and people hurt each other without intending to do so.

I said: "Well, d'uh! I've been with my husband for 10 years, I know this!" Then I told her that it is not an 'oopsie'-moment when a therapist tells their client explicitly that they're just imagining a boundary violation, and that that's lowest level for a therapist, and she just looked at me silently.

She later said, that I have to decide for myself if I can or cannot accept that people make mistakes. Well, I can accept that, and I have been very accepting towards her and her weakness for prodding my psyche in place where I explicitly told her I don't want it to be prodded right now. There is a limit to the number and gravity of mistakes that can or should be accepted.

I have this suspicion that she thinks my problem is that I can't deal with being hurt in a relationship (which is kinda true; I can't deal with being made the asshole of a group despite my best efforts to not step on anybody's toes while also staying true to myself and my own needs), and that she just has to shock me straight. And if I can't deal with that either, well, that's my problem then, and not hers, and it's not her who f*cked it all up, but me with my emotional barricades and my unwillingness to move.

Gah, I'm getting sooooo angry!!! HULK SMASH!!!!1!!!1

 

[Philippa]

She is the one not accepting that SHE has made a mistake by violating YOUR boundary. It sounds like she is infantizing you on top of that.

As far as getting hurt in relationships...that is something we all need to come to terms with IN OUR OWN TIME, that we hurt others without meaning to and others hurt us without meaning to (unless they mean to, and then they are just mean and cruel.) So long as you are aware of this, then she isn't saying anything you don't already know.

I don't know, the way you have typed about her here, I am getting the vibe that she has been quite patronizing towards you?

 

[CrazyHorse]

Waw! What great goals your T has for you!

If you would just open up a bit, you could befriend the whole world! 99% would properly be crap for you, but who cares. We all know it is the quantity and not quality that matters.

If you would just be willing to listen to her and change in ways she would like you to, you can rid other people of their addictions, starting with your husband. And now that you have billions of friends, you can basicly cure the world of smoking, by your behaivior alone!

And since your boundaries will be determend by her or others, they are not yours any more and can not be violated. This will eventually leed you to let go of your fear of getting hurt in relationships, which we all know, ofcourse, is the most realistic goal we can ever obtain in life!