Dom Violence How to move forward and set boundaries

[Friday]

Do you have domestic violence outreach in your area? If you’re in Australia, you can freecall 1800 RESPECT for immediate help.

In the US, the number is on flyers on the back of bathroom doors, in the ladies rooms of hospitals nationwide, and in men’s rooms in more liberal areas. Attached to the phrase “Love shouldn’t hurt.”

800 799 SAFE

Domestic Violence Against Men: Help and Resources - HelpGuide.org

Men are abused by their partners a lot more often than you may think. Learn how to identify the signs and get the help you need to escape an abusive relationship.

www.helpguide.org

 

[scruffybiscuit]

I have tried to leave 3 times and came back. I'm the one choosing to be in the relationship, she keeps saying she wants divorce unless I agree to follow the rules. I feel guilty and also do not want a divorce as I love her.

I have caused her so much pain, no one is recognizing that from any of my posts. I'm a liar who manipulated her, she has a ton of trauma from the things I bullet pointed before and I am trying to support her as she works through it. She is making progress but all of her symptoms are the same as what I read many people here who have trauma exhibit. I don't have trauma other than anxiety when she gets mad, I don't know why but it really hasn't affected me beyond that.

 

[Abstract]

I have tried to leave 3 times and came back. I'm the one choosing to be in the relationship, she keeps saying she wants divorce unless I agree to follow the rules. I feel guilty and also do not want a divorce as I love her.

I have caused her so much pain, no one is recognizing that from any of my posts. I'm a liar who manipulated her, she has a ton of trauma from the things I bullet pointed before and I am trying to support her as she works through it. She is making progress but all of her symptoms are the same as what I read many people here who have trauma exhibit. I don't have trauma other than anxiety when she gets mad, I don't know why but it really hasn't affected me beyond that.

Look at the language you use. Your responsibility, your failings, your badness. That alone is a sign of abuse. You have been indoctrinated into taking responsibility for everything - including her bodily states and feelings. Extremely unhealthy.

Rules? Are for children in school not adults in a healthy equal and loving relationship. This is psychological control. NOT normal. You accepting them? Not healthy.

You being cut off from your family? Abusive. Controlling.

Her making everyone responsible for her triggers? Not healthy. Controlling.

You need to be away from this environment to have any hope of thinking clearly.

I suggest you at the very least both have counselling with someone YOU choose. That would know from the onset that she has physically assaulted you.

Of course things get a bit better when she feels more in control of you... until they don't. And you ARE damaged by the control itself.

What was your family life like when growing up?


I would suggest being very careful that a baby doesn't come into the equation. You don't want someone else harmed by this very unhealthy dynamic.

 

[Sideways]

no one is recognizing that from any of my posts.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but you’ve set out the things you’ve done, more than once. I heard you. I did. But like @Abstract said, and like is so consistent with DV, your perception that what you’ve done warrants the abuse is off-kilter.

I get what you’ve done.
You still don’t deserve this.

I get that you love her.
You still don’t deserve this.

Hope that #4 is the walk out that seals the deal for you.

 

[Movingforward10]

There is research that says it takes on average 7 attempts to leave before the abused person leaves. So your 3 times, is below the average, and explains why it hasn't worked.

The reason it takes so many times, you are showing all the classic signs off. The indoctrination that happens that you believe this is you and you struggle to see the abuse even though you know that you feel bad when the abuse happens.


The thing about trying new ways of being with an abuser is that they will up the stakes. You advocating for yourself is not part of their plan. So, just like you have described what happened in the last few days, she's twisted it all round to make it about her and now you are back in the box she needs you in. And you are now not advocating for yourself. She didn't use violence because she didn't need to, her words are violent enough (violence in the sense of emotional violence/manipulation).

You're not safe in this relationship.

Her asking for a divorce is the best thing. It really is.

Can you speak to a domestic abuse agency? Or research abusive relationships? Maybe educating yourself on how these work might help. They will all be saying what weisaying.

 

[Lost in the Woods]

DM is cyclical. Starting with a violent event then there is the contrite phase, then the build up phase and then another violent event. In the contrite phase it is a honeymoon and then not so much as tension builds.

We preferred not to take DM cases because the victim often drops the whole thing in a few days. Meanwhile we ran to court seeking emergency orders only to drop the matter before the hearing. You do that too many times and your credibility is shot with the court.

Another thing is that many have a set time period for the cycle like 3 months.

Although I have never read this anywhere I believe DM is like an infection and even the victim has to be careful about future relationships. The victim could have a predisposition to seeking violent partners or they could have learned patterns of behavior that they take into the next relationship that make DM or allegations thereof more likely.

In the US there DM emergency court order process is often abused to get control of the home or other reasons. No one ever gets punished for making false claims. This is a real problem as it diverts judicial resources away from the cases that really need addressing.

I would suggest you do some reading on DM and then watch the cycle play out in your life. Often, low self esteem keeps victims with the perpetrators. It is your life but waking up sooner is always better than later.

In many jurisdictions there is a policy that on a DM call someone is going to jail, just to separate the parties. It is usually the guy. With everything on the internet these days a DM arrest could have devastating consequences in both your personal and professional life. All it takes is one neighbor to call the police and there goes your life. When the cops arrive the assumption is it is the guy who is the perp.

 

[scruffybiscuit]

Does that violence extend to anyone/anything IN her care?

No but she does get into shouting matches with her family in Chinese sometimes and I can’t follow along. We have a small dog and in the past when she is violent towards me he jumps in between us and tries to defend me, she has thrown him around a few times but usually she will ask me to put him in the room as even when she’s yelling at me he comes to my side and barks at her. He wants everyone to get along and we’ve tested when peaceful that if I pretend to hit her he will go after me just like he goes after her.

What was your family life like when growing up?

Oldest of four. Christian family, homeschooled until middle school. Straight A student with highest scores for tests in my small private high school. Parents always paraded me around as being so smart and bragged about me which was not good for me to experience as a kid. Pretty sure I’m ADHD as a side note. Got into ivy leagues but went to local private college and then dropped out and started a few companies and then had good success with the last one. Wife is an only child immigrant who went to top tier university and had a big name job when we met.

I would suggest being very careful that a baby doesn't come into the equation.

Haven’t had sex in 3 years (traumatic for her as she doesn’t trust me and doesn’t want to hurt herself, was extremely sexually for the early years though). Neither of us wants a baby in our current state

Can you speak to a domestic abuse agency? Or research abusive relationships?

Don’t feel comfortable talking to one, also I’m with my wife 24/7, at most I’m in my own office sometimes. Doing research but a lot the times I find myself applying them to myself and analyzing how I’ve been abusive.

Any good resources you can suggest?

I skimmed through a PDF of the Lundy Bancroft book “why does he do that” a while back but then really couldn’t identify myself with any of the abusers in the book. At the time was trying to fix myself from being an abuser.

In many jurisdictions there is a policy that on a DM call someone is going to jail

When I called the police 4 years ago it was because I was running away and was worried that if I left she would kill her self based on what she had said that morning. They came and I went back to the house to make sure she was ok, they brought her to ambulance and said she didn’t seem suicidal. I then told the police she had beat me, and showed my bruises hoping they would take her for a mental health check. They promised not to arrest her but did and during this she never once said anything about me even though she had bruises from me holding her back from beating me. She defended me even though I sent her to jail. I posted bail and I hired a hot shot lawyer that got everything dropped and her record wiped.

——

For now, I’m just logging all the abusive/controlling behavior and all of our fights (verbal not physical for last month or so) and her breaking things when angry. Don’t have the courage to leave and still believe that I’m more wrong than everyone on here says but starting to see things more for what they are.

As a side note she is Chinese and some of her behavior does seem cultural. We’ve watched comedy Chinese tv shows where men get beat up by their wives and she shows social media posts to me of girls saying they beat their husband for xyz. Also in some of the shows we watch the guys are pretty accepting and loving of domineering wives and wife’s who punish them. Her grandma has seen her hit me a few times and afterwards she remarked to me that she was surprised her grandma didn’t say anything and just let it go.

I get this isn’t acceptable to the extent she goes in any culture and those are probably outliers (comedy show and also random social media posts are bullshit). But I do think it explains a little bit of her behavior and how she can also be so loving at the same time.

 

[Abstract]

You have to ask yourself why on earth you are in this relationship. Relationships should make us happier and feel better about ourselves and the world. Not all the time, of course. But they should never leave us feeling self despising and fearful. You are living in misery. Why.

What does your family feel about her/your relationship? Are you happy that you have been isolated from your family and friends?

What about rereading the same book but looking at it from the perspective of her being the abuser?

She has suggested you should divorce. Does that not mean you could at least go somewhere for a bit to get perspective. So that you can see things more clearly. Who could you stay with? What about your family or friends? You can call it a minibreak from each other if it makes you both feel better about it.

 

[Lost in the Woods]

It sounds unbelievably toxic for both of you. I get that unwinding the relationship would be extremely difficult due to the business success, my wife and I are currently living separately and there are economic issues that weigh heavily upon us since we have done well.

But those factors can be great motivation to really work on counseling. It sounds like you two have taken this pretty far down the line. The further you go the harder it will be.

I think you have steep odds against you but it is possible, with a lot of therapy and counseling, to turn it around. First, it takes two highly motivated people who are willing to change the fundamental patterns playing out in your relationship. That isn’t easy but you have already proven you are up to difficult challenges by building a successful business. It won’t be easy, it will take time and there is no guarantee of ultimate success. Furthermore, with the counseling and therapy one of you may grow out of the marriage. I think that is likely to be you.

 

[shimmerz]

Abusive people don't allow people to set personal boundaries.

You say she is a good and principled person. Good and principaled people don't give anyone - let alone loved ones - black eyes.

Maybe check out the personal bill of rights for mental health - there are lots of them but this one seems to hit the spot given what you are describing.

Personal Bill of Rights | Fuller Life Family Therapy

Assertiveness is based on balance. It requires being forthright about our wants and needs while still considering the rights, needs, and wants of others. When we practice assertiveness, we ask for what we want and realize that other's needs and wants are equally important. Assertive people...

fullerlifefamilytherapy.org

Oh, and by the way, my life was destroyed by DV. It is no joke. Any environment that doesn't allow for your own self care is going to take a toll and the trick is to get out before you are so wasted from it that you have no energy left to get out.

Maybe take a look and see if you can get some counseling from a men's victims counseling so you can explore what it is that is stopping you from being able to protect yourself from all of this. Peer Support in the area? Maybe check that out.

My heart is with you. I know this is so very difficult.

 

[Lost in the Woods]

Abusive people don't allow people to set personal boundaries.

You say she is a good and principled person. Good and principaled people don't give anyone - let alone loved ones - black eyes.

Maybe check out the personal bill of rights for mental health - there are lots of them but this one seems to hit the spot given what you are describing.

Personal Bill of Rights | Fuller Life Family Therapy

Assertiveness is based on balance. It requires being forthright about our wants and needs while still considering the rights, needs, and wants of others. When we practice assertiveness, we ask for what we want and realize that other's needs and wants are equally important. Assertive people...

fullerlifefamilytherapy.org

Oh, and by the way, my life was destroyed by DV. It is no joke. Any environment that doesn't allow for your own self care is going to take a toll and the trick is to get out before you are so wasted from it that you have no energy left to get out.

Maybe take a look and see if you can get some counseling from a men's victims counseling so you can explore what it is that is stopping you from being able to protect yourself from all of this. Peer Support in the area? Maybe check that out.

My heart is with you. I know this is so very difficult.

I second the mens’ group with a focus on DV. When I did that there were no groups for male victims so I went to one for male abusers and I learned a lot about the cycle, the magnetism between the perp and the victim and the need for drama. Looking back I think my self esteem must have been in the gutter to stay in that marriage as long as I did. I am sure my childhood trauma played into it all, violence was familiar.

 

[scruffybiscuit]

She hasn’t injured me from hitting in a long time. At worst it’s some lighter slapping these days and she’s trying to stop. Things seem to be consistently getting better as long as I’m not arguing with her and acknowledging when I do something wrong. Despite that, I do see how controlling she has been. It’s hard for me though as I realize I’m manipulative and she catches me lying a lot of time when she’s just trying to get me to recognize something I did wrong.

I have spent a lot of time thinking about this and what everyone has said here.

I’m having hard time not seeing what she did as reactive abuse and that in some of my previous posts I was playing a victim.

What if what she did to me in the past was just reactive abuse and the controlling behavior she has today is because she’s scared of me putting her in that place today? What would you say to that?