Family Not Respecting my Boundaries

[SjMel]

It was recently my birthday and my twin brother didn't respond to the three messages I sent him wishing him a happy birthday. I did block him because he was reacting negatively to my expressed boundaries. I am having a hard time with this because I didn't want to cut off all communication with him but it would seem like his attitude is that he wants free reign to continue to treat me in a way that is harmful or not be part of my life at all. So I guess that's that then. He will continue to feel like he is the victim when all I ask of him is stop hurting me and stop giving his unsolicited advice.

My family hasn't ever made an attempt to sit with me and journey with me for 20 years. For almost 20 years they haven't had me over or done anything for me on my birthday. An older sister of mine recently died because of a heart condition. Same heart condition I have. And now my other sister decides to make an effort to have some kind of family dinner. She was gonna have a birthday cake with candles and all that. I felt weird. I told her, I can't remember the last time I had a birthday cake with candles on it so I'd prefer there to not be any candles on the cake.

I would have much preferred my family to reach out to me a little more then what they have over the last 20 years. It was like I didn't even exist much. I was an afterthought. I still sorta feel like an afterthought that it took one of my sister's to die before they made an effort to have me in their life. And now they think they can give me advice on how I should live my life!? I think not. They don't know what I am going through or what helps me and their helping is actually more harmful then good. My brother seems to only understand one thing ... that he should be allowed to give me advice and I should just accept it and if I can't then he can't be part of my life. His wife told me that I can't dictate how people act. I certainly can dictate on how people should treat me. I need to protect myself emotionally and mentally. And my brother doesn't know how to be any different. It's like his understanding is that my acceptance of him is equated to my acceptance of his advice and it doesn't work that way.

So the more I exercise boundaries the more people reject me and walk away and the more alone and isolated I am. That too is just as equally not healthy. I can't afford much counseling. What I do currently have is limited. Right now what therapy I have is EMDR therapy which is about to begin next week. I also have a structured sibling loss support group.

I am tired. I am fatigued. I have chest pains all the time which is part of my heart condition. Maybe once I am placed on the appropriate medication. One cardiologist might recommend an Implantable Cardioverter Defibrillator which is a combination of a pacemaker and an AED device to shock my heart if my arrhythmia becomes life threatening. It's only a matter of time when it will. Maybe if I am placed on medication that will help. I believe my cardiologists wants to confirm that my condition is genetic and not acquired because that will make a difference in how I will be treated. I have to wait another 2 - 3 months for the genetic test results to come back.

I am going through so much right now.

I haven't been able to work since my accident. I am currently receiving workers compensation benefits and fighting the system to get PTSD listed as an injury received from the accident. I have a legal advocate that believes I have a good case. My sister's husband is going to help me gain access to Private Care which will speed up the process to get my official diagnosis. With this, it might be just a matter of time before my Vocational Rehabilitation Worker will start demanding I am sent for retraining. And if that happens before they consider my mental health condition that has been negatively impacted from my accident I might get kicked off workers compensation and then I will have to fight to get on disability. It's extremely hard to get approved for disability. One thing I do know is that I don't have the capacity to work. I am not functional at home. My place is an absolute disaster. I need to somehow gain the strength and motivation to clean my apartment but I can barely function right now. And all I need from my family is to understand that their treatment of me negatively impacts me and it's not difficult to stop giving unsolicited advice. It's not difficult to take a step back when somebody you love tells you that a certain behavior is harmful or not helpful. My brother doesn't understand this so I have lost my brother. And both him and his wife blame me. They seem to think that I should just be accepting of his unsolicited unhelpful and harmful advice. They don't understand that I am doing everything I can so it hurts when they tell me that I am not doing enough when they don't have a clue what I am doing or how my health has been negatively impacted. I have been in bed for the better part of an entire year. I also have a heart condition which is making my recovery that much more difficult. My brother has the same heart condition but he can also still go for hikes and enjoy the fresh air in the mountains that are close by. Meanwhile, I have an extremely hard time walking to and from the grocery store a block away and I am scared to push myself too much because if I push myself too much I run the risk of developing a life threatening heart arrhythmia and the medication I am taking places me at risk of developing a fatal heart arrhythmia so I can't do as much as he can physically and the symptoms I have related to PTSD makes it that much more difficult.

My other sister felt guilty pushing our deceased sister. So she's not pushing me. My brother hasn't learned that lesson. I can only do so much. And I need for those who genuinely care for me to know and understand where I am limited and where I am not limited. I am tired of people treating me like I am mentally slow. I am not mentally slow. I struggle socially but I am not mentally slow. They just need to maybe start listening to me more and get to know me because right now they don't know me.

The price you pay when you start expressing your boundaries. Maybe one day I will meet people who will respect my boundaries. Until then, healing is a very lonely place for me.

 

[Jade-]

Hi there.

I'm sorry for your situation and everything you're going through. Last thing you need on top of all of it is BS from other people.

Boundaries are a hard thing to set and keep, I know because I am currently setting them with some people in my life. I'm just so over and so tired of people not treating me like I wish they would.

That being said, I am finding through trial and error that setting them isn't about getting others to do/say as I wish they would "or else". It's just more about what I am not willing to tolerate anymore, the boundaries are about me and for me, not them. Where I used to argue, yell, plead, demand etc for people to stop doing or saying certain things , and let them know how much they have upset me or hurt me, or whatever, I try not to do that at all now. Instead I'm finding that letting someone know , for example, hey, please don't yell at me, it's not ok and if they continue to do so, I can just walk away from it. Every time. I don't have to allow it to happen. I don't have any control over them but I can control what I do about it.

I like doing things that way much better. It's not an easy thing to keep up all the time or do perfectly but I am slowly learning. Before I was always such a mess because I was so upset all the time trying to explain myself to people, demanding they don't treat me a certain way with no results. I guess my light bulb moment was when my ex was sending long texts talking shit to me and about me. I was reading them and getting so mad, so hurt, so upset and sending horrible replies back to thim. Then I asked myself why am I even reading these texts? I don't have to, I can simply choose not to.

All that to say you can't stop others from giving you advice but you can stop yourself from even listening to it or dealing with it.

People don't like when we set boundaries. And they want to push things and continue what they're doing. They're not going to do anything differently, but you can.

 

[SjMel]

Hi there.

I'm sorry for your situation and everything you're going through. Last thing you need on top of all of it is BS from other people.

Boundaries are a hard thing to set and keep, I know because I am currently setting them with some people in my life. I'm just so over and so tired of people not treating me like I wish they would.

That being said, I am finding through trial and error that setting them isn't about getting others to do/say as I wish they would "or else". It's just more about what I am not willing to tolerate anymore, the boundaries are about me and for me, not them. Where I used to argue, yell, plead, demand etc for people to stop doing or saying certain things , and let them know how much they have upset me or hurt me, or whatever, I try not to do that at all now. Instead I'm finding that letting someone know , for example, hey, please don't yell at me, it's not ok and if they continue to do so, I can just walk away from it. Every time. I don't have to allow it to happen. I don't have any control over them but I can control what I do about it.

I like doing things that way much better. It's not an easy thing to keep up all the time or do perfectly but I am slowly learning. Before I was always such a mess because I was so upset all the time trying to explain myself to people, demanding they don't treat me a certain way with no results. I guess my light bulb moment was when my ex was sending long texts talking shit to me and about me. I was reading them and getting so mad, so hurt, so upset and sending horrible replies back to thim. Then I asked myself why am I even reading these texts? I don't have to, I can simply choose not to.

All that to say you can't stop others from giving you advice but you can stop yourself from even listening to it or dealing with it.

People don't like when we set boundaries. And they want to push things and continue what they're doing. They're not going to do anything differently, but you can.

yes, but I didn't want to cut my twin brother out of my life. I was hoping that just maybe he cared enough to try and understand but he doesn't, can't, or chooses not to. Which is why I am not making an effort to gain back any communication with him and won't ever be talking to him ever again. Maybe our sister can somehow get through to him. I sure can't. I was hoping my twin brother would choose family over his opinions. I was hoping my brother would just accept how he treats me hurts me. That's why I fight and have fought so long and hard but I guess you can't fight to be part of your family when your family doesn't care enough for you to understand where they hurt me. I thought my family was stronger than this.

 

[Sideways]

It seems like a pretty extreme response to completely cut contact with people that you seem to want in your life.

Cutting contact is a very black & white response. Relationships, particularly family relationships, are far more complex and dynamic than that.

Maybe, right now, having your brother in your life is more harmful than beneficial. But that may not always be the case. You will change over time, and so will he. There are ways of being assertive in your communication and boundaries that don’t need to involve just tossing out relationships completely.

 

[SjMel]

It seems like a pretty extreme response to completely cut contact with people that you seem to want in your life.

Cutting contact is a very black & white response. Relationships, particularly family relationships, are far more complex and dynamic than that.

Maybe, right now, having your brother in your life is more harmful than beneficial. But that may not always be the case. You will change over time, and so will he. There are ways of being assertive in your communication and boundaries that don’t need to involve just tossing out relationships completely.

It is an extreme response ....

"Cutting contact is a very black & white response. Relationships, particularly family relationships, are far more complex and dynamic than that."

Agreed

"Maybe, right now, having your brother in your life is more harmful than beneficial."

This may be true

An older sister of ours tends to be able to talk to our brother better. Maybe she can help. My choice was to never cut people out of my life. My choice is to always find a way. He's my brother. We are twins. I don't think he understands how his behaviour negatively impacts others. I wouldn't go as far as to say he's narcissistic but he most definitely has some of those traits. Setting boundaries with people with narcissistic traits is extremely challenging.

"There are ways of being assertive in your communication and boundaries that don’t need to involve just tossing out relationships completely."

How can you communicate boundaries assertively with someone who shuts down any conversation that starts to address boundaries?
I get dismissed. They redirect any and all attempts at communication. Right now it seems like my only option is to walk away. This isn't what I wanted but it takes two to set and maintain boundaries. It doesn't work with just one person. If the other person is unwilling to even have a conversation and unwilling to try and understand the boundary ie asking a certain behaviour to stop, then the last remaining option is to apply a physical barrier to that person, especially if that person is engaging in behaviour that is harmful to my recovery. I am at a loss. But maybe our older sister can have a conversation with him.

Let me ask you this ... if somebody were to let you know that you are doing something that is hurtful to them, would you take the time to understand and maybe not continue with said behaviour? Or would you dismiss what they say and continue with said behaviour knowing that they said it is hurtful to them?

 

[Charbella]

Let me ask you this ... if somebody were to let you know that you are doing something that is hurtful to them, would you take the time to understand and maybe not continue with said behaviour?

I think you’re asking the wrong question. I can’t imagine many people active in this community would just not care. The problem is that you aren’t dealing with you, you’re dealing with someone who doesn’t seem to have the same values. You said his wife said you can’t make people do things and she isn’t wrong, you can’t.

Putting up boundaries with people who have never cared about your needs is HARD. I personally suck at it. I have hard people in my life, similar to your brother and I’ve found that having a hard firm boundary that I know they won’t follow is just a recipe for anger and frustration on my part. If they cared they would have similar emotional responses but they are the type of person who can make a boundary with anyone and keep it no matter what pain they inflict, that’s just not me and it’s never going to be. So I limit my contact with them. I setup contact that they will be successful at. My own brother loves to be correct and in charge so when I need help and expertise he’s great and he loves he can give it. So when I’m feeling like I need to connect with him, I find something he is good at and connect. It’s sucks to not have supportive people in your life but when you find people who can you will go to the ends of the world to make that work. Just like we want our loved ones to take us as we are, we have to do the same. However if someone is toxic limiting contact will only cause issues as they keep pushing the low contact for more and then cutting them out is sensible. You have to find balance between isolating yourself and not letting people walk all over you.

 

[SjMel]

I think you’re asking the wrong question. I can’t imagine many people active in this community would just not care. The problem is that you aren’t dealing with you, you’re dealing with someone who doesn’t seem to have the same values. You said his wife said you can’t make people do things and she isn’t wrong, you can’t.

I struggle with my communication. Trying to get others to understand my perspective by maybe asking a question that requires personal reflection. Of course people active in this community care. I don't think it's a wrong question per se. It is about the need for boundaries to protect one self from harmful behaviour that impedes healing and recovery from trauma. People are reasonably healthy will understand boundaries. My family do not understand healthy boundaries. This includes me. All I know is that I have limited help, limited support. I have me. And so if my brother's behaviour is harmful to my recovery either he finds a way to respect my wishes to withhold unsolicited advice then I won't be triggered into a trauma response. I am trying or I have been trying to explain this but for the longest time it's been like talking to a wall.

It’s sucks to not have supportive people in your life but when you find people who can you will go to the ends of the world to make that work. Just like we want our loved ones to take us as we are, we have to do the same. However if someone is toxic limiting contact will only cause issues as they keep pushing the low contact for more and then cutting them out is sensible.

My goal was to just limit interactions with my brother and so instead of having a conversation to try and understand he just takes it to the extreme. Perhaps our sister can get through to him and maybe there will grow some understanding. Maybe he will never understand. I certainly didn't make the choice to cut him out of my life.

You have to find balance between isolating yourself and not letting people walk all over you.

It seems like my only option is to isolate myself. I can't get better with crappy people surrounding me, and mentally and verbally abusing me. I can't get better when people harass and bully me. I can't get better if my own family can't seem to understand how not to hurt me and right now there is only two people in my family I can talk to. I will be going to a structured grief support group but that is only for just a few sessions. There is also a local Priest I meet with on a regular basis for spiritual direction. I am also in therapy. We are about to start EMDR Therapy. I don't know if I am ready for that.

Here's what the problem is ... I almost died in my accident. It happened a little before 6pm. I was rushed to hospital and admitted to a local trauma unit. That evening I laid on a cold hospital bed trying not to die and not one person from my family cared enough to be there for me. All they had to do was just come and be present. Instead I felt abandoned like I have always been. And now they come to me with their "words of wisdom" or their "advice" when they can't even just sit with me. They tell me what I should do but they have no clue what I am doing and don't understand the challenges I am facing. Their advice is short sited and lacks empathy, compassion, and when I get triggered into a trauma response it is because there is lack of kindness as well as emotional and mental abuse. So I react to that. It becomes a viscous circle that I desperately need to escape from. And currently, that means isolation. I'm trying to not isolate because I go to a not so good place.

 

[Sideways]

if somebody were to let you know that you are doing something that is hurtful to them, would you take the time to understand and maybe not continue with said behaviour? Or would you dismiss what they say and continue with said behaviour knowing that they said it is hurtful to them?

This was posed as a question, so I’ll answer it.

Depends on context.

Easy example: 3 year old is crying and telling mum that the Measles vaccination is way too scary, and it’s gonna hurt.

That child’s pain and fear are real. But I’m with mum on this one - that kid is getting vaccinated.

That’s the thing with humans. Black and white in human relationships isn’t really a thing. It’s an impossible ideal and massive over-simplification.

How can you communicate boundaries assertively with someone who shuts down any conversation that starts to address boundaries?

I’ve done work on communication skills in therapy (it was in a group CBT course). It was time well spent. Effective, assertive communication is, for most of us, a learned skill.

And a crazy powerful one to learn and control.

Sometimes, if we know that talking it out isn’t likely to be a success, there’s alternatives.

For example, I will not bother trying to talk to my parents about boundaries again. That’s an exercise in pointlessness. So, I’ve moved them out a bit in terms of how close we are. I have contact with them less frequently, I’m fussier about how that occurs, and I don’t talk about myself or my life (they can’t say anything kind about it, so they are no longer entitled to that information).

The boundaries I’m asserting there are communicated indirectly: the times I agree to see them, where, for how long, the conversations I engage in, and the conversations where I politely change the topic.

One day, in the far away future, we may become closer. Right now, I’m civil, like I am with the barista that makes my coffee in the morning. But they don’t get much from me, they don’t get it often, it’s impersonal, and it’s kept brief.

Right now it seems like my only option is to walk away.

So that’s fine. But it can still be time out, rather than completely and indefinitely cutting contact.

“I’ve got some things going on right now, you may not hear from me much for a while. I’ll be back in contact when things have settled.” Etc etc.

Complete, immediate and universally cutting contact is sometimes warranted, and entirely appropriate. But if you want a relationship with your brother at some point, maybe experiment with some alternatives and see if something else works better for you.

 

[Movingforward10]

And so if my brother's behaviour is harmful to my recovery either he finds a way to respect my wishes to withhold unsolicited advice then I won't be triggered into a trauma response. I am trying or I have been trying to explain this but for the longest time it's been like talking to a wall.

The problem with you expecting him to change is that you will continue to be triggered and upset as he has shown you repeatedly that he won't change. As hard as it is, accepting that will help you a lot.

But it can still be time out, rather than completely and indefinitely cutting contact.

And this ^^ is really key.

I have done what you are doing. Being upset for years that my family didn't respect what I wanted or needed from them. The cycle went round and round and round and round and round and round.
Until I learnt that boundaires are things that I do. Not what other people do. They behave however they behave and I remove myself if that behaviour doesn't accord with my values..it blew my mind when someone on here taught me that!

And also, I reduced contact. Decided no contact. Started contact again. And am currently in an "operation more contact" phase where I'm sort of doing exposure therapy with the level of contact to see if that helps me hold it all differently.
Essentially, it only gets better if you change how you hold it/see it/accept it. Which sucks massively. But grieving the loss of the family you need will free you.

 

[SjMel]

This was posed as a question, so I’ll answer it.

Depends on context.

Easy example: 3 year old is crying and telling mum that the Measles vaccination is way too scary, and it’s gonna hurt.

That child’s pain and fear are real. But I’m with mum on this one - that kid is getting vaccinated.

That’s the thing with humans. Black and white in human relationships isn’t really a thing. It’s an impossible ideal and massive over-simplification.

I’ve done work on communication skills in therapy (it was in a group CBT course). It was time well spent. Effective, assertive communication is, for most of us, a learned skill.

And a crazy powerful one to learn and control.

Sometimes, if we know that talking it out isn’t likely to be a success, there’s alternatives.

For example, I will not bother trying to talk to my parents about boundaries again. That’s an exercise in pointlessness. So, I’ve moved them out a bit in terms of how close we are. I have contact with them less frequently, I’m fussier about how that occurs, and I don’t talk about myself or my life (they can’t say anything kind about it, so they are no longer entitled to that information).

The boundaries I’m asserting there are communicated indirectly: the times I agree to see them, where, for how long, the conversations I engage in, and the conversations where I politely change the topic.

One day, in the far away future, we may become closer. Right now, I’m civil, like I am with the barista that makes my coffee in the morning. But they don’t get much from me, they don’t get it often, it’s impersonal, and it’s kept brief.


So that’s fine. But it can still be time out, rather than completely and indefinitely cutting contact.

“I’ve got some things going on right now, you may not hear from me much for a while. I’ll be back in contact when things have settled.” Etc etc.

Complete, immediate and universally cutting contact is sometimes warranted, and entirely appropriate. But if you want a relationship with your brother at some point, maybe experiment with some alternatives and see if something else works better for you.

If he allows we might be able to re-engage in limited contact. That was what I thought to be better. It was him to decided to cut all contact. Either way, in the meantime I see an opportunity for me to continue to recovery and become mentally and emotionally stronger and obviously I need to be mentally and emotionally stronger in order to ensure the interactions with my brother remain as healthy as possible.

I see your point with the child. That is a child/parent relationship not a sibling one and ultimately, getting vaccinated, in my opinion is more beneficial then harmful. A child can't make decisions for themselves. They are dependent upon their parents for everything. I am an adult. I am not dependent upon my brother and my brother needs to learn that. Perhaps the only way he can learn to not see me as a dependent on him is for me to closely guard how much access he has to me.

 

[Sideways]

Perhaps the only way he can learn to not see me as a dependent on him is for me to closely guard how much access he has to me.

Requiring people around us to ‘learn’ anything is, very often, setting ourselves up for bitter disappointment! Your brother is who he is. Like all of us, he’s got strengths and weaknesses. That’s okay. Particularly because…
Long term, as you move further through your recovery, there’s a good chance that even if he does persist with this habit, it will become less problematic for you.

One of the things that often happens with recovery from ptsd is we become waaaaay more tolerant of other people’s foibles. For example, things that can currently completely ruin your day, trigger you, or send your stress cup overflowing, become *shrug* little more than a peeve or irritation.

Which isn’t about deciding that what he’s doing is okay, it’s more about our threshold for tolerating and accepting the negatives while we simultaneously enjoy the positives.

 

[SjMel]

Requiring people around us to ‘learn’ anything is, very often, setting ourselves up for bitter disappointment! Your brother is who he is. Like all of us, he’s got strengths and weaknesses. That’s okay. Particularly because…
Long term, as you move further through your recovery, there’s a good chance that even if he does persist with this habit, it will become less problematic for you.

One of the things that often happens with recovery from ptsd is we become waaaaay more tolerant of other people’s foibles. For example, things that can currently completely ruin your day, trigger you, or send your stress cup overflowing, become *shrug* little more than a peeve or irritation.

Which isn’t about deciding that what he’s doing is okay, it’s more about our threshold for tolerating and accepting the negatives while we simultaneously enjoy the positives.

You are not saying that you become more tolerant of abuse in its many forms.

I am very tolerant of peoples mistakes and weaknesses. I am less tolerant of abuse in my life.