Therapy Too Frustrating

[Pencil]

so she thought the best way to do that was to put me off (without telling me) by telling me that she did understand, and sending the song because she thought I'd found some peace with it.

I really do get your annoyance, and no, this is not about attachment or PTSD. If a colleague, a neighbour or a distant relative did something like this it would really, really annoy me.

 

[ninja]

Hi Leah,

I have done both: in person therapy and online therapy (video chat via Skype). To be quite honest, I haven't noticed too many substantial differences, and my best experience has been with my present therapist.

I met my current therapist at a conference one year ago. Long story short I was totally shut down and she was kind enough to help me despite being "off duty." We instantly clicked and she asked if I would want to see her regularly via Skype; we live many miles apart like you and your therapist (not quite 2000 though!). The key has been her boundaries; she is fantastic at putting them up and enforcing them without being haphazard about it. I've also had 5-6 in person therapy sessions with her, which has helped me feel more comfortable with her approach (and vice versa!).

doesn't address it properly

I think this is important. To clarify, does your T know point blankly how you would like her to address things with you? Although you feel good rapport, she may not actually be capable (for whatever reason) of approaching your therapy in a way that best suits you. Maybe going "there" would require her to go to a place where she does not feel emotionally stable? I have "triggered" therapists before solely because the degree in which I think and feel is "deeper" than their level of emotional "resolution"… if that makes sense.

With all due respect to her, I don't think your therapist is at the level you need her to function at in order for your healing to feel productive. Therefore I can see how you might begin to feel very reliant on her: if she's only giving you a taste of the therapeutic affect! (Of course, please correct me if I am misperceiving!)

Sending gentle hugs if you accept them. :hug:

 

[Leah123]

I'm torn, really torn, sent her a message that I was threatened by how she was so assertive lately about wanting to give me "the truth" as if she had some lock on it. It's come up a few times lately- where she thinks I'm denying a connection and gets aggressive about it, trouble is, her "truth" doesn't always ring true for me. Sigh. I hope she'll resolve this properly. I don't have much more trust to extend her right now. She seems good at sympathy, but, sigh, not sure about the rest. We had a chat about intrusive thoughts, went so so.

 

[Abstract]

I am back and have now read what you wrote. :)

A lot comes to mind. I hope you don't mind me being quite direct with some of it. To look at all aspects of it. You probably have done so already but its still worth discussing I think. I know how painful these things can be.

On ending up spending time on the relationship in therapy: To my mind, unless someone has a good childhood and adulthood and then is struck by unexpected adversity I think there is close to zero chance that the therapeutic relationship will not end up being an enormous part of therapy. Sadly.

It is caught up in trust, attachment and many other things about ourselves. I think it's normal to start off thinking that therapy is an easy case of A, B and C (whatever our priorities are) and to not realise that sometimes the road is going to be much more complicated when we have not yet had experience of therapy. Not saying thats what you thought Leah. I am understanding that you feel you are spending too much time firefighting in the relationship.

For me it helps to keep in mind that we can do an enormous amount of healing just from dealing with the relationship. It is like a test driving or learning centre where we get to play out all our different patterns of relating to others and ourselves. I don't believe there is any way of escaping that unfortunately. By doing this I think it can help a lot with how we deal with other relationships in our lives and can heal an aspect of trauma at the same time.

On a therapist providing answers and solutions: I think many people see therapy as a type of life coaching in a sense. A therapists job is not to fix us or solve our problems. It is rather to provide an arena where we can work through things and to then provide us with guidance, observations (for us to try on for size) and, depending on the approach, skills training. The rest is up to us.

I do think there are times when someone is barely coping with life and where they need to become more stable as quickly as possible and I think that often that is the time for doing skills training before trauma work is attempted. A combination of CBT and DBT can be really helpful and can help deal with symptoms as well as prepare to be able to tolerate trauma work more easily. Talking about the type of skills training that involves homework and theory etc. Not sure where you are with all these things but throwing it all out there for your contemplation!

When you said this

send her a msg. that I'd just have to live with the disturbing thoughts, see them as a tradeoff-....I emailed her later, once I could explain, that I felt like she'd blown me off.

then I wondered a few things. Please set me straight if I misunderstand anything. Firstly again you are saying one thing but meaning something else and then it gets upsetting when she does not figure it all out. Please know I don't mean that critically. I hope you don't mind me expressing it this way but that is attempting to use manipulation to get what is desired. I don't think manipulation has to be conscious at all. I like the definition where it is described as "consciously or unconsciously attempting to get ones needs met by indirect means". I think another example of indirectly expressing things is sarcasm or hurting or raging at ourselves (as an indirect way of expressing anger at someone).

If she plays into the whole dynamic instead of setting boundaries then she will be reinforcing those patterns of interacting with others for you and that would not be good for you. Therapists need to have boundaries in place so that they don't reinforce what is not good for us. We developed these tendencies for very good reasons of course and it can be very hard and upsetting when they are challenged in any way.

I may be missing something here of course and I realise that this is a separate topic to what you are concerned about on here but I am not sure about her boundary setting with you if I look at how all the interactions happened.


So getting back to your main questions. I think its quite hard to see if she is right for you are not really and sadly I think you are the only one that is going to be able to figure that out. Talking about it in threads like this is such a good idea as I know for me it helps clarify my thoughts a lot as I go along.

I don't think anything she is doing sounds like bad therapy if that makes sense. Whether it is bad for you is another matter of course.

So things to consider: I am wondering if you are actually wanting skills training right now and are constantly frustrated when you get therapy instead.

I do think its normal for a therapist to charge for the appointments when misunderstandings happen generally as sadly they are a part of therapy.

I do think there is probably a lot of what she is misunderstanding that is understandable in sense. Where she is taking what you say literally and where that is then leading to other things for you.

I also see that sometimes she is not able to get where you are with really important things and that may or may not happen too much for you. And that if that is the case then looking for someone else may be best. I also understand how devastating it can feel when that happens.

 

[Abstract]

so assertive lately about wanting to give me "the truth" as if she had some lock on it. It's come up a few times lately- where she thinks I'm denying a connection and gets aggressive about it, trouble is, her "truth" doesn't always ring true for me

I can see the problem with this and have been there. When it has been repeated it has made me crazy. Sometimes I have found out later that there were aspects of it where the therapist was right :oops: but I still think its important to feel listened to and to be listened to.

I think finding the truth is often a case of getting outside feedback but also most importantly us accessing our unique inside experiences and feelings that noone else has access to.

And I think if we naturally find it problematic to connect to that internal place within ourselves then being firmly encouraged to disconnect more can be harmful.

Others have the opposite problem and struggle to see anything outside their internal space and are not easily disconnected from it and then I think it can be helpful for someone to make those alternatives available. But they still need to be alternatives!

 

[Leah123]

(video chat via Skype)

Hi, Ninja, thanks for replying. We've never done video chat- I think that would make it much easier. We were doing text-only chat and email. She's trying to redirect the emails to chat more, which I agree is more nuanced, and I recently asked her to do some phone sessions, which are way more informative for both of us than chat, because of all the verbal cues. Unfortunately, video chat isn't an option because of the service she contracts with- they don't offer it.

To clarify, does your T know point blankly how you would like her to address things with you?

I would say it is an ongoing process, my educating her in the best way to work with me, and that the majority of the time, she is receptive. I actually just heard back from her this morning with a reassuring message to that effect- that she would be more mindful and respectful of what I told her I needed to feel safe. It was a relief!

 

[Leah123]

I hope you don't mind me being quite direct with some of it.

Thanks for replying so thoughtfully Abstract! I really *appreciate* you for being direct, with kindness, which makes all the difference. I want objectivity, for sure, and know that I was lacking it very much while writing this thread.

I am understanding that you feel you are spending too much time firefighting in the relationship.

Yes, I have felt this way, and I *think* it may be getting better. She has made some missteps, I would judge, but *certainly* my response is complicated by my past traumatic relationships. Trouble is, I usually relate much better with people, communicate clearly these days- I didn't anticipate how some of my old terrible habits (saying the opposite of what I mean, for example, haha, which is unintentionally manipulative, like you said) would be resurrected as I deal with some of my most vulnerable parts and toughest issues. So, I think you're right, and that this round of therapy is sort of a redo of my life, warts and all.

I am wondering if you are actually wanting skills training right now

I want some of both, and sometimes almost in the same moment. I think I make her a little tiny bit dizzy trying to keep up with me. I definitely work at a fast pace, though I then sometimes need to revisit topics again, of course.

us accessing our unique inside experiences and feelings that noone else has access to.

Yes, this is where I'm at. She seems constantly impressed with my insights (not bragging, lol) and I'm comfortable with my pace- when she pushed me, particularly as she seems to do this when I reveal the very most painful parts, I do struggle with it. I know you were so helpful when I mentioned her saying my father was in bed w/my husband and I- that was one example of her pushing in a really harmful way, making connections that weren't really there- a mistake it's taken us a lot of time to hash out, but which I hope will mean no such terrible repeats.

 

[Abstract]

I think any time we are dealing with trauma it is par for the course that we are going to have trauma intruding. And that is OK. Not in how how it makes us feel as that is awful. But rather that it is normal tht it will throw us off course and meke everything very painful.

And it is shocking how our most vulnerable responses reoccur.

I do honestly understand your concerns and I hope you know that I think they are ligitimate. Please never feel the need to agree with me when you do not. Not saying that that is the case here but just that your opinions and thoughts are important.

I can very much understand how upsetting the stuff about your father and the stuff about the kissing as punishment is.

I think you are intelliegent and self aware ewnough to figure out if this is right for you or not. It might take a while but you will get there.

 

[Chosen]

Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable doing online therapy. I love having my T right there in front of me...there's so much that could get lost in translation otherwise. My T allows me to e-mail, and sometimes (rarely) he replies. I'm a hand-talker as well, so I think he could miss some stuff if he wasn't able to see my hands haha.

The decision is up to you and what you feel most comfortable with. I'm curious, though; have you looked at the therapists that are there locally?

 

[Leah123]

Thanks Noah. I haven't looked locally as it works much better for me to contact someone more spur of the moment than a traditional therapeutic arrangement, to be able to have therapy in the comfort zone of my home office, and to listen to music I've chosen while I do it- it's a good emotional bridge for me to help my words and feelings connect, and I love sharing the music w/my t. There are some drawbacks I'm navigating, but I like her well and hope not to have to switch. The phone sessions definitely help convey more when I need that connection vs. the chats.

 

[Abstract]

to contact someone more spur of the moment

Hi Leah, only if you feel like answering: do you have a set arrangements with appointments with your T or how does it work?

phone sessions definitely help convey more when I need

Do you feel she understands "more" when you do speak to her as opposed to writing?

The other thing that occurred to me is that you are studying journalism (?) and I wondered if there is some safety in the written word for you.

If you want both therapy and to learn skills have you thought of actually doing skills courses? This T might or might not do it but you could always do it elsewhere too whilst having T with her. Have you looked at dialectical behaviour therapy?

I so much like the way you approach things with determination to heal and make things better. I think it's a very useful quality in recovery.

 

[Leah123]

Hi Leah, only if you feel like answering: do you have a set arrangements with appointments with your T or how does it work?

Right now, we have appointments at set times on Monday and Thursday, but I end up contacting her quite a bit, maybe 4 or 5 times a week sometimes. I am working through a lot. I've been seeing her 3 months now, and in touch a lot for the last couple months. I work from home, as does she, which gives me the flexibility to do that.

Have you looked at dialectical behaviour therapy?

Well, I have not, but I see the value in doing it. I've picked up other good concepts I'd really like to explore more from you and others, like radical acceptance, the coping box, etc. I've been quite busy and overwhelmed lately, though, this is indeed a very change-filled and tumultuous few months in my life. I am trying to balance the skills focus more, seems to me I need that structure of concrete tools, while I work to resolve the deeper issues that will take some time. At this point though, gosh, I am struggling a bit just with the basics. :)

Do you feel she understands "more" when you do speak to her as opposed to writing?

Well, I feel that I express myself better in writing, and that's more useful sometimes. A big part of therapy for me lately has been grounding myself with the narrative of my past and also how some problem behaviors unfold today- my outbursts, that I'm working so hard on stopping, and other issues. Being able to mindfully recall things and write them out in short essays helps me a lot, and I think she does pretty well with that, though I sometimes feel she might gloss over things that way, it's hard for anyone I think.

The other wonderful thing about writing is having the record to help me ground myself later, and with chat, I'm able to reread them later which helps me feel more secure and centered about myself and the therapy. I sometimes struggle with making connections between how badly I feel and what's going on in my life- having the written records helps ease that problem.

When I'm feeling disconnected, dissociated, really upset, or afraid she'll judge/blame/hurt me, sometimes I prefer the phone. Hearing the warmth of her voice, and letting her hear the vulnerability in mine, it makes me feel safer and more heard when I'm really feeling desperate. I've been leaning toward phone sessions lately, for the sense of connection.