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News What To Do About Syria?

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Pietro

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Claims of at least 1300 people killed in single attack this week, in a rebel-leaning suburb of Damascus. A large number of the victims were children. Most of the victims had no sign of physical trauma, and had symptoms indicative of nerve gas poisoning. There was also hardly any physical damage caused by 12 low-explosive bombs that fell in the area, which are believed to have carried the chemicals.

I saw the pictures of the dead. I remember seeing similar pictures of Saddam Hussein's gassing of Kurds in 1986. The same postures of people fallen in place, almost like frozen murals. The last look on their faces a gasp for air. A death shared equally by old and young alike. There is no Hell to severe or prolonged for anyone who could have done these things. Saddam found this out.

But what can be done about this latest atrocity? The first problem is, who did it? It appears to be the work of the Syrian government, and not the rebels. Some experts have suggested that, given the scope of the attack, the weaponry would have had to be far more sophisticated than anything the rebels could have produced. But this is not yet proven.

And even if it is, there are no good options for intervention in Syria. Sure, we can lob a bunch of cruise missiles at Assad's military to send a "message", but it will unlikely do much to change the course of Syria's civil war or the way Assad chooses to pursue it. Worse, it will look indifferent -- the act of a bored superpower attempting to appear interested.

Assad and his government are not necessarily even the worst players in Syria's conflict. The indigenous rebel groups have been largely supplanted by a variety of Al Quaeda affiliated groups, one more brutal than the other. If Assad goes away, these guys win. That certainly doesn't help us, or our allies in the region.

There are really only two options that would achieve anything. Neither are perfect, or even good, but no other options would be really meaningful. The first is to do nothing -- let them continue killing each other and sort it out on their own. Act only if they directly threaten us our interests and allies. This is a cold and possibly short-sighted approach, because how this conflict ends will effect us in some way in the future. However, we can avoid the fiscal and human expense of another war in the Middle East after two that have together cost over $1 Trillion, nearly 10,000 American lives, 10's of thousands of indigenous lives -- and arguably achieved almost nothing.

The other option is on the other extreme -- we go all in, with the same level of effort as expended for the first Gulf War. Hundreds of thousands of troops, fully armed. Essentially, we go in and make peace, and shoot anyone who disagrees. This method has the potential for a better long-term outcome by allowing us to have a strong say in who wins the conflict. But it would require enormous resources.

At the very least, President Obama needs to start showing some determination to lead. He doesn't have to threaten a thing, but he does need to demonstrate outrage. He shouldn't have threatened a "red line" if he wasn't going to act on it. The time for "learning on the job" is over -- he needs to show some spine. This is not to undermine the enormous complexity of the situation -- there are no easy answers, and I'm not advocating for any one over another. However, part of the calculus within this situation is determining how to communicate in order to demonstrate dedication to your principles -- and promises. The President has to stop being the "Delegator in Chief" and show some personal leadership, even while difficult negotiations and planning are occurring behind the scenes.

In short, we need a definitive policy on this, sooner rather than later. Otherwise, we're going to find ourselves drawn-in, more and more over time, having given-up control over how we respond.
 
President Obama is too busy touring colleges campaign style to be a world leader, let alone form a coherent or definitive policy on this. He has eclipsed Jimmy Carter as the worst president of the United States ever to hold office. But beyond that, as both the Democrats and the media are already setting their caps on the 2016 election (THREE years early) and preparing to give Hillary a make over... I expect that they will do exactly nothing.

Let us not forget the rabid blow back for the Gulf War, Afghanistan, and Iraq.

They have elevated politics over world or domestic affairs.

It is time for the United Nations to act if the use of chemical weapons has been substantiated. Short of that, being blocked by both China and Russia... all the U.S. can do anyways at the present time is look for our President to lead... which apparently is not in his repertoire. Maybe someone should ask Valerie Jarrett.
 
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He has eclipsed Jimmy Carter as the worst president of the United States ever to hold office.
:) I actually don't believe this is true. Obama's tenure has seen some economic improvement, the near-ending of two military efforts, and decent security efforts, as well as some domestic progress, if not much. Carter wasn't so lucky, and even George W. Bush's two terms could be argued to be the worst. (There are a few 19th century contenders as well. ;) ) But Obama is a funny guy. He doesn't really get that people see the American presidency as the de facto "leader of the free world". He doesn't understand the concept of the "bully pulpit". He's strictly a pragmatist and can't, or refuses to, put on the mantle of absolute authority during the few times that warrant this. This is a tricky balancing act -- do it too often, and you get called a dictator, like GW Bush did (unfairly). He's academically intelligent, but he doesn't understand people very well.

Please keep in mind that it is a likely unreasonable expectation for an administration to form a coherent policy on Syria who can't even bring themselves to call what recently occurred in Egypt a "coup".
I understand why they didn't do this. It's stupid not to, but that's the nature of complex diplomacy. We have a deal with Egypt to maintain peace with Israel, in return for the $1 billion per year they get in military funding. This deal is the core of Israel's security. If we were to lose Egypt as an ally, as a secular entity, the Middle East becomes that much more stable. It may turn-out that this is inevitable, but, for now, the administration is not making any rash moves regarding Egypt. They supported democracy before, and they got the Muslim Brotherhood. Just like the Bush administration supported democracy for the Palestinians, and got Hamas. ;) Truth, is, the Arab countries need to be left to evolve as societies on their own, just like countries in the West had to do.

But beyond that, as both the Democrats and the media are already setting their caps on the 2016 election (THREE years early) and preparing to give Hillary a make over... I expect that they will do exactly nothing.
Very possible.

It is time for the United Nations to act if the use of chemical weapons has been substantiated.
It'll never happen. I remember Srebrenica, which was a so-called "UN Safe Zone" in Bosnia. Not very safe, since it was overrun by Serbs, and 8000 men and boys were massacred there. The UN has no teeth, unless member nations decide to do something themselves. And, as you pointed-out, Russia is backing the Syrian government no matter how obvious the lies.

Interestingly, both Russia and Iran back-tracked some today, at least admitting that chemical weapons had likely been used. Iran's new president didn't even suggest it was the rebels, as the Russians did (and always do).

Regardless, you're right -- the UN needs to do something. There's absolutely no reason that the inspectors already on the ground in Syria shouldn't be given access to the site of Wednesday's attack, immediately, by the Syrian government. Failure to do so is nothing more than a tacit admission of guilt, and that should be sufficient for action.

Lobbing cruise missiles, as the sole response, is not a very convincing message, though. Look how many times we lobbed them at Saddam, and how long he survived anyway.

It seems human beings just have nothing better to do than killing other human beings. The world is just messed up.
In some parts of the world, it still seems this is more important than building a positive, productive society.
 
I do not think going in with more guns and armoury is going to solve anything. It would need to done in talks and action to over throw the current government and leader of the military and lead through a non religious motives. Using the military then to clear terrorists out of the rebel/civilian areas. The UN should actually start doing something. There should be a cease fire until talks have set out clearer objectives to the integrity of the area.

Cameron should stop goading the USA to fire missiles. Let us not forget the Syrian government is armed by Russia. This is a religious war and nothing more. But once those missiles start well who will decide to back who in the end? I don't fancy being targeted by Russia as well as the terrorists and Syrian militants.

But hey, that will never really happen because there is too much money involved through arms ect.

It is sickening to see.

best wishes
Saffy :)
 
I do not advocate intervention in Syria. Russia has weighed in today with some skepticism.
The Russians only have one motivation -- protect the paltry remainder of their sphere of influence. They'd throw skepticism even if al Assad was filmed personally spraying sarin gas at people. ;) Still, it's important not to underestimate the importance of a country's "sphere of influence". Doing so could put that country into a position similar to that of a trapped snake, and they will behave accordingly.

The West, thus, needs to determine whether it's more important to send a message to Assad -- and others -- regarding the use of WMD, or to appease Russia. None of these guys are savvy or interested enough, diplomatically, to do both.

There should be a cease fire until talks have set out clearer objectives to the integrity of the area.
They've tried multiple times to get a cease fire, but haven't been able to do so. And the UN has no power to do anything, unfortunately. They can talk a lot, but action has rarely been forthcoming (much like consultants ;) ). The one exception I can think of is the First Gulf War -- G H Bush and company did a brilliant job diplomatically. I wish others, including his son, could learn to follow this model.

But hey, that will never really happen because there is too much money involved through arms ect.
Interesting -- while the various Arab factions are fighting each other along religious sectarian lines, all of the surrounding nations are trying to figure-out how to make money out of this. Much like a cock fighting operation -- and just as despicable. Funny and sad all at once.

I think all countries need to stay out of it and let them sort it out themselves. Intervention has proven time and time again, useless.
This would probably be the most reasonable course, despite the nastiness of the situation. It's hard to ignore the carnage -- if that had been one of my children shown in those videos, dying like that, I would have snapped and gone berserk against the government there. But it's their fight, under their cultural rules. We can't change such things overnight.

Unfortunately, there are more considerations than just the local war. Allowing Assad to get away with using WMD sends a message that we are weak and/or don't care to Assad and other would-be users of this stuff -- especially Iran. It also sets the stage for greater proliferation of these weapons. And there are the political considerations. The West has already indicated it would act if chemical weapons are used; if they don't act, they lose credibility and power, while Russia gains power.

Ultimately, though, I think it's inevitable that we'll end-up in it. If things continue going the direction they're going, the entire Middle East from North Africa west through Iran will be at war. The conditions are ripe for a general war in the Middle East, much like World War I. And if we thought maintaining the flow of oil was difficult before, it will be very interesting to see to what lengths we'll have to go to under these circumstances.
 
The entire Middle East has been at war within itself for thousands of years... which is exactly why I think everyone else should stay out of it. Even with such weapons used within... is a nuclear weapon any better which the US has used? I don't think the US need to involve themselves in another country, which the past has dictated that nothing good will come from it IMHO. Any external involvement will just unite a torn country against a different enemy... and I think the US has created enough enemies for itself already.

Like you mention Pietro, you can't change values and customs by invading a country. If anything, the customs just become stronger and more valued within that country, to fight back and rebel. Change has to come from within...
 
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